# Words you didn't know you knew from sword&sorcery **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458 "2011-01-05T04:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/41 "2011-01-06T23:50:10Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > My understanding is that it can actually be either (see “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs”). I suspect that Tolkien played a strong role in popularizing the dwarves spelling in fantasy literature (and probably did the same for elves vs. elfs). He himself stated (foreword to _The Hobbit_) that “dwarfs” and “dwarfish” were the correct English plural and adjective, and in his writing he used “dwarves” and “dwarvish” only to refer to Durin’s Folk - so “dwarfs” would be small people who were not _Naugrim_ or _Khazad_ if you prefer. And since Pterry, to name but one, intended his dwarfs to be clearly distinguished from those of Middle-Earth - as are Narnian dwarfs - he (and Lewis) used the normal English plural. But “elfs” is not a pluralisation I have ever encountered before. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/42 "2011-01-07T01:08:38Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I wonder how many people encountered words like that young enough and made up a pronunciation, that you never really got around around to check until you made an total ass out of yourself in college one day? My pah-swaydo dragon and I would like for you to withdraw the question, good sir! ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/43 "2011-01-07T04:36:01Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > My pah-swaydo dragon and I would like for you to withdraw the question, good sir! I know a puh-lad-in who would agree. 😉 (Not my personal mispronunciation, mind you…I joined a D&D group as an adult, after playing for many years with other groups, and found that the entire group pronounced “paladin” in that way. I thought it was an in-joke at first, but later learned that they all simply thought that was the pronunciation.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/44 "2011-01-07T05:59:09Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I wonder how many people encountered words like that young enough and made up a pronunciation, that you never really got around around to check until you made an total ass out of yourself in college one day? That sounds like a highly improbe-able kircumstance. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/45 "2011-01-07T12:48:33Z")
Most of the words in this thread I first encountered elsewhere, but there’s a specific category of magic that I hadn’t – _geas, grimoire, lich, elemental_ sand other such “technical” terms I first encountered reading fantasy fiction. There are a several obsolete words I first encountered in fantasy fiction – _drinking jack, prie-dieux, groat_ (meaning an old type of coin). ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/46 "2011-01-07T17:01:43Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I wonder how many people encountered words like that young enough and made up a pronunciation, that you never really got around around to check until you made an total ass out of yourself in college one day? > Hypothetically speaking of course. Fa-kay-de (façade) comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/47 "2011-01-07T17:04:28Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I wonder how many people encountered words like that young enough and made up a pronunciation, that you never really got around around to check until you made an total ass out of yourself in college one day? > Hypothetically speaking of course. If we don’t all pronounce things the same, CHA-ows will ensue. Hypothetically. Chaos may also be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/48 "2011-01-07T17:08:55Z")
Oh, here’s a good one. Back in the day, I was reading the treasure charts for monsters in D&D (or AD&D) and came across “nil”. I somehow decided that “nil” was a material, kind of silvery and malleable. Maybe I got the idea from “nickel” or something… God only knows. But for a good while, characters going through adventures I created were often rewarded for their efforts with great bags of nil. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/49 "2011-01-07T17:25:16Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > - **Rune** - It never occurred to me that the word ‘rune’ was not as widely known, for example, as the word ‘sandwich’ or ‘percussion’. Of course, your average bear wouldn’t know that runes were an actual alphabet used by ancient Germanic tribes, but still, it’s not like the word was made up by Tolkien. Now that I thought about it, of course, it was probably _popularized_ by… one of those people. Tolkien or someone else. I e-mailed my dad a link to the Wikipedia page on runes, but he’d forgotten about it by the second time it came up. > > - **Familiar** - This time my dad came to me. I explained about witches and black cats and roosters and goats and how those bloodthirsty morons with too little to do would torture cats to death (and witches, too, but my view on history is fairly feline-slanted). They talk about Runes in the Harry Potter books which, while still in the fantasy/sorcery category, is much more mainstream. And I’m baffled that your father is unfamiliar with the word familiar – if not the witchy definition, then at least the more common one? Am I missing something? Have I been misspelling familiar all these years? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/50 "2011-01-07T17:30:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > That sounds like a highly improbe-able kircumstance. In your defense, the Latin circum is pronounced kir kum. Oh wait, that’s _my_ defense. This actually came up just last week (not circumstance) but with a different word with a Latin root that I mispronounced with a hard C. I can’t remember the word right now, but I do remember stating that it’s from Latin anyway. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/51 "2011-01-07T18:27:21Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I wonder how many people encountered words like that young enough and made up a pronunciation, that you never really got around around to check until you made an total ass out of yourself in college one day? > Hypothetically speaking of course. Coup de grace, in Poli Sci. Hey, I’m in the province where bilingualism means English and Cree, not English and French, gimme a break. ‘Drow’ is another fantasy term. Interestingly enough, I’ve never run into a fantasy anime that was localized into English and used the word, which makes me think of copyfight issues. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/52 "2011-01-07T19:17:25Z")
I think “drow” is D&D-specific. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/53 "2011-01-07T19:52:27Z")
I don’t suppose “amulet” is in particularly common usage these days. Or “weregild.” ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/54 "2011-01-07T20:47:20Z")
you’d be surprised the number of people who couldn’t tell you the differences between a mace, morning star, and a flail. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/55 "2011-01-07T21:05:56Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > you’d be surprised the number of people who couldn’t tell you the differences between a mace, morning star, and a flail. Of course, the ones who **can** tell you the difference are the same ones who will spend hours arguing about which is which. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/56 "2011-01-07T21:09:46Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I think “drow” is D&D-specific. Though Gygax created the concept of drow as dark elves, [the word seems to have its roots in Scottish dialects,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drow_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29#Publication_history) where “trow” (or “drow”) was used for evil sprites. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/57 "2011-01-07T21:58:17Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Oh, here’s a good one. Back in the day, I was reading the treasure charts for monsters in D&D (or AD&D) and came across “nil”. I somehow decided that “nil” was a material, kind of silvery and malleable. Maybe I got the idea from “nickel” or something… God only knows. > > But for a good while, characters going through adventures I created were often rewarded for their efforts with great bags of nil. Much like life itself, really. Certainly I’ve known HR departments who took exactly that approach, even if they were smart enough to try and hide it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/58 "2011-01-07T22:10:26Z")
Philter Unguent > [@wolfman](#): > > I wonder how many people encountered words like that young enough and made up a pronunciation, that you never really got around around to check until you made an total ass out of yourself in college one day? I recall an article where Isaac Asimov mentioned having that happen to him with “Betelgeuse”, complete with him “correcting” people who used the right pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/59 "2011-01-08T14:06:28Z")
Another thing I got from Tolkien was the difference between “fay” and “fey”. fay = noun, meaning “fairy” fey = adjective, meaning “knowing that you are fated to die soon, and being cool with it” ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458/60 "2011-01-08T15:01:58Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > I was around 10-11 when the 1st edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons set came out. And the DMs Guide included a random Harlot table. Along with Harlot I was able to add all the following to my vocabulary: Trull, Strumpet, Trollop, Tart, Wench, Doxy, Courtesan, Madam, Procuress, Pimp, & Panderer. I can’t say it made me popular in 6th grade. But it certainly helped. Ha ha ha, I had the exact same experience. I also learned “tome” from Dungeons and Dragons, and I had to explain what that word meant to my Grade 7 teacher when I used it in a story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/words-you-didnt-know-you-knew-from-sword-sorcery/566458.md?page=4)