# Work issue, seeking opinions. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 25, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952 "2016-11-25T06:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/21 "2016-11-26T05:40:55Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Do you want to remain employed there? If so, drop it. They won’t fire you outright for bitching about it, but next time they have to let somebody go, they’ll check the “who’s been a pain in the ass” file, and can that guy. Don’t be that guy, unless you’re ready to find another job. It don’ work like dat in Australia. If \*\*Kam \*_was canned and the employer could not prove_ that the canning was not due to \*\*Kam \*\*complaining about late pay, \*\*Kam \*\*would be able to claim damages. \*No, this is not an error, the onus of proof is statutorily reversed. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/22 "2016-11-26T06:08:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It don’ work like dat in Australia. > > If \*\*Kam \*_was canned and the employer could not prove_ that the canning was not due to \*\*Kam \*\*complaining about late pay, \*\*Kam \*\*would be able to claim damages. > > \*No, this is not an error, the onus of proof is statutorily reversed. Not sure about that **Princhester.** As I’m employed under a ‘casual award’, I don’t think the employer needs to provide a reason at all for terminating my job. That’s not to say of course that I wouldn’t try alternative avenues for damages. Whilst I loathe tabloid media outlets, sometimes they’re the champions of the underdog…just sayin’. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/23 "2016-11-26T07:49:44Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Not sure about that **Princhester.** As I’m employed under a ‘casual award’, I don’t think the employer needs to provide a reason at all for terminating my job. Unlikely to matter. Onus on them to prove not due to “adverse action” under the General Protections provisions of the FWA. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/24 "2016-11-26T11:16:04Z")
I think if my job was so tenuous that complaining about a late paycheck gets me fired, I’d look for another job. Regardless of whether kambuckta gets canned or not, the BEST possible outcome for him bitching out Payroll is they completely ignore him. Maybe he’ll get a polite “thank you for bringing this to our attention, now fuck off” email. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/25 "2016-11-26T11:24:17Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Regardless of whether kambuckta gets canned or not, the BEST possible outcome for him bitching out Payroll is they completely ignore him. Maybe he’ll get a polite “thank you for bringing this to our attention, now fuck off” email. **Kambuckta** is female, but otherwise yes, that’s pretty much what I’d consider the most likely best case scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/26 "2016-11-26T20:17:22Z")
Any concern that the company may have hit some hard times? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/27 "2016-11-26T23:55:15Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Not sure about that **Princhester.** As I’m employed under a ‘casual award’, I don’t think the employer needs to provide a reason at all for terminating my job. > > That’s not to say of course that I wouldn’t try alternative avenues for damages. Whilst I loathe tabloid media outlets, sometimes they’re the champions of the underdog…just sayin’. > > 😃 Is casual award roughly the same as [at-will](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment)? As you might imagine, at-will is enshrined in labor law for many US states. “I don’t like the length of your shirt-sleeve. Pack your shit.” ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/28 "2016-11-27T01:20:34Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Is casual award roughly the same as [at-will](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment)? As you might imagine, at-will is enshrined in labor law for many US states. > “I don’t like the length of your shirt-sleeve. Pack your shit.” Not quite; there’s still some protections in place, at least in theory. But you might find “the needs of the business” have changed to the point where you’re only getting four hours a week… ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/29 "2016-11-27T01:58:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Any concern that the company may have hit some hard times? This. SDend your resume to all the competitors in that business seeking a job. Mention that you are looking because your current employer has ‘started missing payroll’ and you think that’s a bad sign. They will spread the word quite quickly. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/30 "2016-11-27T02:37:54Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > **Kambuckta** is female, but otherwise yes, that’s pretty much what I’d consider the most likely best case scenario. Of course. Male would be **Kambuckto**. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/31 "2016-11-27T05:00:33Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > This. > > SDend your resume to all the competitors in that business seeking a job. Mention that you are looking because your current employer has ‘started missing payroll’ and you think that’s a bad sign. They will spread the word quite quickly. What is the advantage to Kambuckta of this strategy? As someone who owns a business and has experienced a bank stuff up resulting in staff pay not going into their accounts, it seems a bit harsh to assume that the incident was as a result of anything other than a mistake, at least until it happens again. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/32 "2016-11-27T07:38:42Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > As someone who owns a business and has experienced a bank stuff up resulting in staff pay not going into their accounts, it seems a bit harsh to assume that the incident was as a result of anything other than a mistake, at least until it happens again. I have no reason to believe that the company is suffering financial difficulties. I’m prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt that the problem was out of their control. And where on earth am I going to get another job working from home being an older duffer with few marketable skills? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/33 "2016-11-27T13:49:00Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > This. > > SDend your resume to all the competitors in that business seeking a job. Mention that you are looking because your current employer has ‘started missing payroll’ and you think that’s a bad sign. They will spread the word quite quickly. That might be relevant and effective as a revenge tactic \*if \*the OP worked for a small local business. He said they’re a company with offices and employees all over the world. A small fraction of whom, in one country using one payroll service, had a glitch. Rather a different scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/34 "2016-11-27T14:10:42Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > This week, for reasons ‘apparently’ out of my company’s control, our pays were delayed by 24 hrs. This in itself is not necessarily a biggie (although for many families living pay-day to pay-day it would definitely have been hard), but we employees were not informed of the delay until the morning AFTER they were due to appear in our bank accounts. > > Firstly, if the reason given by the company is to be believed, then they would have known on the pay-day itself that there was an issue, and in my humble opinion, they have a responsibility to inform employees as soon as they were made aware of the problem. This would give those employees who were ‘banking’ on being paid a chance to make alternative arrangements as needed. > > And secondly, I wrote an email to HR basically saying the same as above, and the buggers haven’t even acknowledged my correspondence. ☹ > > It’s a large company with an international presence now, but only the Australian employees were affected. It’s also important to note that, apart from a small core-staff in HR, IT and Payroll, we ALL work remotely, so in some ways we’re just pixels on a computer screen to management and perhaps easier to ‘ignore’ than if we worked in a bricks and mortar office. (The management team is Aus-based btw and I have met most of them despite living 1000km away). > > Basically, I’m thoroughly pissed off with their attitude though, and would like some input as to how far to take this. Should I call or send another email next week inquiring as to why the first one was not acknowledged? Raz them up a bit so that they take this situation more seriously than they obviously have up until now? > > I’ve been with the company for 8yrs, so I’m not some newbie-trouble-maker, but this dismissive attitude is something that has been endemic for all my time there and I’m sick to death of it. They need to step up to the plate and apologise to the employees for not accepting responsibility for the pay stuff-up, apologise for not notifying us that there was going to be a delay, and make assurances that if there is a future problem, we will be notified as soon as the problem arises. > > Or should I just shuddup now that I’ve said my piece? Pick your battles. This does not seem like a big enough issue to make a big to do about. Unless your position is absolutely assured or if jobs in your area and field are easy to come by, I wouldn’t make a big issue of this. It’s only happened the one time. If it is a repeated issue, then make something of it. It was an inconvenience for your and a bit more than that for people who live paycheck to paycheck, which they shouldn’t do anyway. I realize ethically the company should have notified you all earlier, but they didn’t and this issue is not something that goes on regularly. If you value your job and your place in the company, play it cool. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/35 "2016-11-27T14:33:58Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > This. > > SDend your resume to all the competitors in that business seeking a job. Mention that you are looking because your current employer has ‘started missing payroll’ and you think that’s a bad sign. They will spread the word quite quickly. I don’t see how missing payroll by one day is a sign of financial distress. How would would a scenario like that play out? HR realizes on payday they don’t have enough money and then spend the day running around looking for extra cash trying to make ends meet? It was probably a banking or software error. I’m sure it sucks for a lot of people, but not everyone, including the payroll department, is perfect. I think the email the OP sent is enough. No need to waste time in order for HR to “step up to the plate and apologise” for “not accepting responsibility,” which sounds like total horseshit that won’t accomplish anything. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/36 "2016-11-27T14:47:00Z")
Years ago my business manager nearly missed a payday. Her habit was to print out the checks every other Thursday, then distribute them the following day. Her mother passed away on a Wednesday. She texted me that she would be out until Monday. She texted everyone else that she would distribute pay checks on Monday, 72 hours late. There weren’t any complaints, but to _me_ payday is sancrosanct. I withdrew cash from my personal account and paid everyone in cash. Although my employees were happy, my business manager was pissed off about the extra work I created. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/37 "2016-11-27T15:50:56Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > I don’t see how missing payroll by one day is a sign of financial distress. How would would a scenario like that play out? HR realizes on payday they don’t have enough money and then spend the day running around looking for extra cash trying to make ends meet? > … Many small businesses hanging by a thread do exactly that. They can meet payroll on Friday if, and only if, they can get one particular customer to pay his bill by Thu. Which sometimes doesn’t quite work out. Other times they can afford to pay half their people on time and the rest when they collect some more receivables. They might be paying 10% of their people late every period and just switching who gets delayed this time vs. next time. It’s all a variation of check kiting - trying to stretch money flow just a liiiittle farther than they should. Typically they’ll be stringing vendors along as much as they can as well. The difference is many vendors flat quit delivering product at the first sign of arrearage. OTOH, many workers will tolerate delayed paychecks a lot more often. Your doors close promptly when vendors won’t deliver supplies. They don’t close when several employees grumble and one begins looking for other work while still showing up. So guess who gets kited more: vendors or employees? None of which is applicable to the OP’s situation. But **t-bonham** wasn’t talking crazy talk. This happens all over our great country every single day. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/38 "2016-11-27T16:05:07Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > … > There weren’t any complaints, but to _me_ payday is sancrosanct. I withdrew cash from my personal account and paid everyone in cash. Although my employees were happy, my business manager was pissed off about the extra work I created. You did the right thing. I had a vaguely similar situation once when my business partner decided to switch our payroll schedule from every two weeks to twice per month. With no notice until the first missed payday under the old system and a gap of 5 more days to the first of the new less frequent but slightly larger checks. I paid a week’s wages to the 10 low-paid folks out of my pocket that afternoon. The better-paid were annoyed but unharmed. I asked everyone but got no takers from them. Partner was pissed mostly because I made him look bad. He wasn’t being evil; he’d just never thought beyond the end of his own adequately capitalized nose. We split a few years later over a similarly blinkered decision of his. A me-first-last-and-only psycho can run a big company successfully. Not so a small one where the employees are real people and everybody knows the bosses/owners. Not that that last comment has any applicability to you and your biz manager’s situation. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/39 "2016-11-27T16:46:16Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > That might be relevant and effective as a revenge tactic \*if \*the OP worked for a small local business. > > \*\*He \*\*said they’re a company with offices and employees all over the world. A small fraction of whom, in one country using one payroll service, had a glitch. > > Rather a different scenario. I’m starting to think Kambuckta should change her handle to Kambucktress or Kambuckutrix. And I cannot imagine a scenario where grassing the current employer for ‘starting to miss payroll’ would flatter an interviewee. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952/40 "2016-11-27T17:26:49Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > I’m starting to think Kambuckta should change her handle to Kambucktress or Kambuckutrix. > … Crap :smack: And I’d already read the post where she explained she was a she. :smack: OTOH, at least I got the capitalization right. That ought to count for something. 🙂 Sorry **kambuckta** ; it won’t happen again. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-issue-seeking-opinions/772952.md?page=3)