# Work, work, work. Screw work! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070 "2003-09-07T08:18:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/21 "2003-09-08T08:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > So why DOES America work so much more, with less vacation, than most other Westernized countries? It can’t ALL be because “time off is for sissies,” can it? To pay for your non-“socialised” health care, of course ! ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/22 "2003-09-08T09:44:57Z")
Of course work is shit. Otherwise you wouldn’t get paid for it. But essentially, yes, work is prostitution - you get paid to get screwed. The only reason people work is because they like money more than they dislike work. Some people are happier working long hours for decades in the knowledge that they will retire extremely rich (yet not far from being dead), while some prefer to enjoy being young and alive and will happily accept less money so that they have time now to do so. The current problem is that this _second_ option usually entails such a **disproportionately** large drop in income that one must be prepared to sacrifice a lot of money for a little extra time. Who sets this rule? The market, _ie._ the bosses who pay each other too much _because they can_. Unfortunately we live in a workaholic-takes-all world. I would like to see workaholics attain social pariah status in the manner of drink drivers. We have built a world in which hard workers are heroes, not idiots, and those who are prepared to be exceptionally poor in order to simply enjoy being alive are benefit-scrounging villains, not role-models. “But what about _progress_?” they cry. Well, as **TVAA** ’s point amply demonstrates _civilisation_ seems to be rather an odd term for working one’s stressed little heart until one is _seventy years old_ all for a couple of years of gardening and naps before becoming a materially wealthy decomposing cadaver. Ah well, back to toiling to make an obscenely rich person even richer in the hope of catching some crumbs from their table… ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/23 "2003-09-08T10:32:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dash Bronzeheart \* > \*\*I could not agree more. Work is a constant torture. Not the work itself but the endless politics, being at someone elses beck and call and the damned repetitiveness of it. Please someone come up with an answer. :smack: \*\* The answer is…academia! Sure, you have the inevitable office politics and backstabbing, but after several years of teaching at the university level, you’re usually free to decide your own hours, saddle your grad students with all that bullshit teaching duty, and concentrate on research. Lovely academia, where you get paid for what you’d want to do in your free time anyway, UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/24 "2003-09-08T10:48:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > **So who should work? Who should bartend the bars you “kick back” at or build and maintain the cars and hotels and boats for you to play with? Who should grow and prepare those fine meals you plan to eat?** Robots. 😉 And don’t ask, “Who will design the robots?” I’m sure you’ll always be able to find nerds who would be designing robots in their spare time anyway, and thus would love to do it for money. As for the OP, become a conceptual artist. Marcel Duchamp once said that his greatest accomplishment was never working a day in his life. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/25 "2003-09-08T13:21:28Z")
I’m with the OP all the way… that is why I have accepted the fact that I will have certain losses in order to live with less money. When I was working at a job that paid better I need to consume more to compensate the shitty lifestyle I was having. Now I just grumble about gas costs and try to keep going as long as I can working this little. 🙂 In the end the issue is MONEY IS SEXY ! Yes… more money means a better car, the before mentioned $8000 sofa and cognac, trendy clothes and neat apartment. This attracts various females due to your apparent sucess and more sex. (This happens more in the US… but EVERY country even Brazil suffers from this) Once you get used to being “sucessful” you dont want to stop… or to leave behind certain perks and the sex naturally. Eventually when you sex drives goes away your still in the routine and cant get out of the rat race… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/26 "2003-09-08T15:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Already in Use \* > Robots. 😉 And don’t ask, “Who will design the robots?” I’m sure you’ll always be able to find nerds who would be designing robots in their spare time anyway, and thus would love to do it for money. > \*\* The reason we don’t have robots do everything is because of the simple fact that they haven’t been invented yet. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SentientMeat_ > We have built a world in which hard workers are heroes, not idiots, and those who are prepared to be exceptionally poor in order to simply enjoy being alive are benefit-scrounging villains, not role-models. We have built a world that rewards acomplishments, not sitting on your ass all day doing nothing. You can be as poor as you like as long as you can support yourself. Once you expect the workaholics and 9-5ers to work to provide benefits while you live like a homeless person then you become a problem. You have to give something back to the system in order for it to work. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Already in Use \* > As for the OP, become a conceptual artist. Marcel Duchamp once said that his greatest accomplishment was never working a day in his life. I don’t know who he is but unless he was born with money, I’m sure he has to approach his art as if it were a full time job. Most of the people I know who work hard professionally have the opportunity to play hard socially. People with good jobs who work hard get to go on vacations or have shore or ski houses or live in nice homes. People who just want to float by and do the bare minimum usually end up with lots of spare time but not much money to do anything with it. These are the people who at 40 are complaining about “manager” this and “rich people” that while others have gone on to become successful. It’s a pretty immature attitude to think that you shouldn’t have to do some kind of undesireable work. If everyone just did what they wanted, no one would clean up the garbage. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/27 "2003-09-08T15:34:25Z")
I believe we have found our Employee of the Month. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/28 "2003-09-08T16:03:16Z")
What’s the supposed to mean, **SentientMeat**? Are you disputing that if you want to make a lot of money, you have to work hard - outside of the birth lottery? I agree with **msmith**. I work hard and do what I need to do because the stuff I want to do in my leisure time costs money. Sometimes a lot of money. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/29 "2003-09-08T16:37:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*I don’t know who he is but unless he was born with money, I’m sure he has to approach his art as if it were a full time job. \*\* Actually, Marcel Duchamp was a monsterously talented artist who was compared to Monet and Gauguin during his early years. But he gave up that painting style because he found it too taxing, and spent the rest of his career doing such Dadaist things as putting an upside-down toilet on a pedestal and calling the “work” “Fountain.” Duchamp, in all likelihood, was the father of “modern art.” All because he was a lazy bastard. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/30 "2003-09-08T18:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hayduke Lives!! \* > \*\*People are expected to work 5 days out of the week for 2 days off. Why not the other way around? \*\* Who says you can’t work 2 days and take 5 days off? I lived on part time jobs for a while. It ain’t much of a life if you like to do stuff that costs even a little bit of money - like go out once in a while, travel (even packing up the beater for a few days camping trip can put a major hurt on the budget - and don’t forget the oil!), buy a nice…anything, live without roommates, take a girl out to dinner, get sick, and so on - but it can be done. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/31 "2003-09-08T18:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > What’s the supposed to mean, **SentientMeat**? Are you disputing that if you want to make a lot of money, you have to work hard - outside of the birth lottery? > > I agree with **msmith**. I work hard and do what I need to do because the stuff I want to do in my leisure time costs money. Sometimes a lot of money. \*\* Exactly. I hate work as much or more than anyone. But since I have to work at SOMETHING, I mind as well work a job that a) pays well b) offers the opportunity to earn more in the future c) gives me the opportunity to work with people of similar interests and intellect These people act as if their bosses were just manufactured as full grown adult Directors and Sr Managers. People have to WORK in order to be in charge, whether it’s your own company, a partner in a law firm or director of a company. You may never get ahead even after working hard, but you certainly won’t get anywhere being a lazy fuck-up. Look. Eventually you are going to be 65 no matter what you do. Do you want to be 65 and broke or 65 with a sizeable nest-egg to retire on? Do you want to work in a nice office and maybe have to work unpaid overtime or work 9-5 in a factory? Now unless you can get lucky selling toilet-seat art or writing screen plays or something, I suggest you get used to the idea of working and find a job that provides the balance of work and home life you are looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/32 "2003-09-08T21:28:16Z")
“What’s that? You say you hate your job? There’s a support group for that! It’s called EVERYBODY! They meet at the bar!” Drew Carrey. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/33 "2003-09-09T00:54:21Z")
😛 I always think of that Drew Carey line when work sucks. If you get a REAL job then there is a greater reward for your efforts. This sounds more like a “living wage” discussion in sheeps clothing. You’re not supposed to earn a living at Taco Bell. It’s a part time job for kids who are willing to actually buy a music CD. I often hear about the great European vacations but I doubt the standard of living comes close compared to the United States. The average beer swilling joe can earn enough money for a house on an acre of land, 2 cars, and a boat or airplane. (by average I don’t mean a 2.0 grade point from an inner city HS). Try buying a car in Finland (not even going to suggest a boat or plane). When I look around me, all my family and friends have hobbies of some kind: bowling, baseball, soccer, volleyball, sailing, dancing, skiing, racing, flying, wood craft, gardening, diving, beer/wine making, beer/wine drinking, painting, cooking, photography, history, music, camping, stamp collecting, rock collecting etc… Americans may not get 4 weeks vacation from day 1, but I wager the weekends are more rewarding and there are 52 of them a year. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/34 "2003-09-09T01:56:25Z")
Damn Straight, **Magiver** - You know, I’ve often wondered when mulling over where to go for the weekend in Europe for £30 each way on EasyJet or RyanAir – Paris ? Madrid ? Stockholm ? Copenhagen ? Amsterdam ? Prague? Venice ? Berlin? Dublin? – how much I’d prefer to live in Dayton, Ohio and enjoy vigorous weekends of stamp and rock collecting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/35 "2003-09-09T02:39:09Z")
That’s funny. And What enjoyment will £30 of bad airline food get you? The oportunity to spend £5 on bad pizza in another city? For 30 cents worth of gas I can tow a boat 5 miles and go skiing for free all day long (and on a work day to boot). You completely missed my point. I don’t have to spend large sums of money to have fun. Fun is in my garage, my Sisters garage, or a hanger nearby. I’m one of the beer swilling unwashed masses who works 40 hrs a week. Within an hours driver there are at least 8 lakes capable of skiying or sailing on. In a 50 mile radius (110 km) There are over 50 small airports. True, aviation fuel is rediculously expensive at $2.25 gallon (.59 eur dollars/liter) but hey, lifes a bitch. If I want to save money I can always take a car down to the race track on Wednesdays (test and tune night) and spend $1.60 a gallon ruining a set of tires. If it wasn’t for house work, I would be on vacation 365 days a year. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/36 "2003-09-09T03:34:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > Damn Straight, **Magiver** - You know, I’ve often wondered when mulling over where to go for the weekend in Europe for £30 each way on EasyJet or RyanAir – Paris ? Madrid ? Stockholm ? Copenhagen ? Amsterdam ? Prague? Venice ? Berlin? Dublin? – how much I’d prefer to live in Dayton, Ohio and enjoy vigorous weekends of stamp and rock collecting. \*\* Yeah that’s great. I’m not interested in a geography lesson of Europe. These people aren’t complaining about having to work 100 hours a week. They are complaining about having to work AT ALL. They want a job where they can come and go as they please and not have someone telling them what to do. Good luck finding that in any country. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/37 "2003-09-09T03:39:36Z")
Also London\_Calling, I don’t collect stamps or rocks (if that is supposed to be an insult). However, my upcoming flight to the San Francisco area is 3 times the distance between London and Venice and its $272 ROUNDTRIP or about $250 Euro Dollars. Not sure what your point was but it sure wasn’t price per km. ---
**Author:** ![cajela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cajela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cajela)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/38 "2003-09-09T04:26:43Z")
Australia isn’t as good as France and seems to be getting worse, but the normal plan here is about 40 hours work week, 20 days holiday, and then there are about 10 public holidays which really are days off, not just some day with a lable attahced that you might work on anwyway. People who have to work on the public holidays still get compensated with extra time off or extra money. I am lucky working at a university, with a 35 hour week and I also get 3 extra days for university closure Xmas to New Year. And I get paid quite enough, thank you. I could get more in the private sector but not if you work it out per hour. Enough to pay the mortgage, and renovate the house, and run the motorbike, and feed the cats, and pay for music lessons, and buy way too many books and CDs and DVDs, and go out for dinner a lot, and travel overseas every two or three years, and have nice holidays locally (say on the Barrier Reef or Fiji or Vanuatu) the other years, and still stick away a reasonable amount of super. ---
**Author:** ![Amethyst\_Autumn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Amethyst\_Autumn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amethyst_Autumn)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/39 "2003-09-09T07:19:22Z")
Has anyone read \*\*The Overworked American \*\* by Julie Shor? One of her basic arguments is that Americans have traded time for money. Essentially the workaholics have made the rules for the rest of us. It’s sad. ---
**Author:** ![coax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ec8ea/32.png) [@coax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coax)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070/40 "2003-09-09T14:42:01Z")
Your attitude is already well manifested in this country. Taxes are high, prices have gone up, and it’s all because alot more people than necessary are on welfare. People just don’t want to work. If everyone worked, except the disabled/etc, everything would be cheaper for everyone. Instead it’s almost on the brink of breaking down. (note: not the US) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/work-work-work-screw-work/200070.md?page=3)