# Worker fired for Kerry sticker---sigh. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316 "2004-09-13T21:45:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/21 "2004-09-14T04:25:28Z")
> [@Random](#): > > The dog walker has a large sign on the top of her car, which says “Protect the Unborn - Vote Bush”. Remember, this sign is in your driveway every day. > > The waiter wears a 4-inch diameter button that says “Protect Gun Rights - You’ll Get My Assault Rifle When You Pry It From My Cold Dead Hands.” > > You okay with both? Or can you tell your employees to express their political opinions on their own time? #1 I would not fire, their ability to do their job is in no way related to their political orientation and good child care is so hard to get these days. #2 The waiter is using my business to advertise his political views directly to the customers of my business. Whats on his car in the parking lot I could care less. An example of my own I would also fire. I run a delivery company and one of my employees applies a “Vote BUSH!” sticker to MY delivery truck. Uh no… he does not have the right to use MY property to advertise his agenda. The employees vehicle is not my property, even if its parked on mine. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/22 "2004-09-14T04:27:44Z")
Sorry for the double post, ignore the first one… > [@Random](#): > > The dog walker has a large sign on the top of her car, which says “Protect the Unborn - Vote Bush”. Remember, this sign is in your driveway every day. > > The waiter wears a 4-inch diameter button that says “Protect Gun Rights - You’ll Get My Assault Rifle When You Pry It From My Cold Dead Hands.” > > You okay with both? Or can you tell your employees to express their political opinions on their own time? #1 I would not fire, their ability to do their job is in no way related to their political orientation and good child care is so hard to get these days. #2 The waiter I would fire. The waiter is using the draw of my business to advertise his political views directly to the customers of my business. Whats on his car in the parking lot I could care less. An example of my own I would also fire. I run a delivery company and one of my employees applies a “Vote BUSH!” sticker to MY delivery truck. Uh no… he does not have the right to use MY property to advertise his agenda. The employees vehicle is not my property to dictate usage, even if its parked on mine. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/23 "2004-09-14T04:29:07Z")
I don’t believe my hypothetical employer is being unethical in either case. I’d do the same in each case. If I own a shop, I’m not going to let employees wear or do anything controversial while they are dealing with the public on my behalf. Even if I agree with the employee’s politics, I know that some customers will not, and might be offended and take their business elsewhere. As for the dogwalker, the sign is in my driveway. If I disagree with the statement, I don’t want it there, as people might assume (with some logic) that it’s my sign, expressing my opinion. Back to the OP. If I’m the employer, I’m not going to object to a small bumper sticker on one of 50 cars in my lot that says “Kerry/Edwards”. It’s unlikely to offend customers, and no one’s going to assume that it’s my opinion. Also, it’s a stupid rule, because it makes the employer (and his candidate) look bad. But legally, it’s my opinion that a private employer has the right to do so. It’s his lot, and he decide who gets to use it, and prohibit advertisements (no matter how small) that he disagrees with. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/24 "2004-09-14T04:53:31Z")
Why limit it to just political speech? I recall a case in Dallas where a business owner declared one day was “Cowboys Day” and encourgaed his employees to wear Cowboys fan items. As far as I recall, nobody was forced to participate. But one employee decided to wear a Green Bay Packers jacket instead and was fired. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/25 "2004-09-14T04:56:12Z")
**Drax** , I have no quarrel with the second (third?) of your recent posts. The first (with the 11:13 pm time stamp), I do take issue with. With respect to the eye color hypothetical, I’ve already said that if eye color discrimination is disguised racial discrimination, it won’t fly. Otherwise, it’s perfectly legal. Your post says nothing different. In retrospect, I shouldn’t have used eye color as a hypothetical, because it tends to correlate with race. But I stand by my point - If the employer establishes that he fired the plaintiff because he had blue eyes (and not because the employee was white), the employer is not guilty of any legal wrong, and should win his case. Eye color is not a protected class, and neither is political affiliation. (Once again, we’re talking about a private employer, so there are no First Amendment/speech/freedom of association issues.) As for your other point, your hypothetical employee would have a hard time proving that his vote was affected or coerced. He isn’t being kept from the polls, and no one is watching him mark his ballot. (This point might seem ridiculous, but there’s actually a history of just that kind of employer activity in this country. Employers actually gave employees pre-marked ballots and followed them into polling places to make sure the ballot wasn’t changed.) Cite: > **[FindLaw's United States Supreme Court case and opinions.](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/504/191.html)** > > FindLaw's searchable database of United States Supreme Court decisions since That’s the reason for the laws you cite (and also one reason for laws against electioneering at polling places, which is the issue addressed by the US Supreme Court in my cite.)) I’m not going to do research tonight (for that matter, this is my last post, because I have to be in court early tomorrow), but there’s been a fair amount of litigation on similar issues. Assuming a private employer, employee buttons/leaflets/cubicle signs can be restricted. There is a narrow exception for union buttons, but that’s based on Federal labor statutes and not general legal principles. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/26 "2004-09-14T07:19:47Z")
> [@Random](#): > > But let’s make sure you’re being consistent here. I know nothing about your individual life situation, but let’s say you own a modest home near a university town. In town, you are the part owner and manager of a coffee shop. If that is the case, please kill me. I hate small towns and I hate coffee. > [@](#): > > You hire two people. One comes to your house every day or week and parks in your driveway. (Maybe she walks your dog, mows your lawn, or provides child care.) The other works in the coffee shop as a waiter. > > The dog walker has a large sign on the top of her car, which says “Protect the Unborn - Vote Bush”. Remember, this sign is in your driveway every day. A large sign is a bit different than an average-sized bumper sticker. Were it a bumper sticker, like the story in question, I would not say a thing about it. Were it an ostentatiously large sign, seeing as its parked in front of my home, I would ask her to remove it or park in back. Now, parked off to the side of my disgusting, evil coffee shop where people come to drink that putrid, vomitous liquid (because employees have no business parking in front of a retail establishment)? I probably wouldn’t mind the sign, unless it was really, really big… in which case, it’s not comparable to the > [@](#): > > The waiter wears a 4-inch diameter button that says “Protect Gun Rights - You’ll Get My Assault Rifle When You Pry It From My Cold Dead Hands.” Again, not comparable. Were I to own a business, I would have a very, very strict dress code for employees. There would be no buttons, no flair, and no fucking nametags either. No facial piercings or tattoos, either. That’s a dresscode issue, which again, is totally fucking different than a small bumper sticker on a car in the parking lot. So why don’t you ask something comparable? Would I fire an employee for having a bumper sticker supporting that evil, if-there-were-a-God-he’d-have-painful-cancer human postule Bush? No. End of questioning. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/27 "2004-09-14T09:06:55Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Well, yes it is a free speech issue, just not a constitutional one. Depending on the state, it is still illegal to dispatch someone based on voting status. > > Sam It wasn’t based on voting status. It was based on not wanting that sticker to be in the company’s parking lot. She can still vote for Kerry. She just needs not to bring her sticker onto company property. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/28 "2004-09-14T17:06:40Z")
Precisely. No coercion was being made as to how she was voting and bumper stickers are unprotected. At my company we follow the lead the boss has set. He doesn’t put any political stickers on his Lexus so I don’t put any on my ten-year-old Ford. There are no political bumper stickers on any cars in our lot so we don’t offend any customers, whatever their parties. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/29 "2004-09-14T19:31:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Firing someone for having a political bumper sticker on their car, so long as the text of the sticker itself isn’t generally offensive (“Fuck Bush”), should damn well be illegal. Ahem. That’s [BUCK FUSH](http://www.cafepress.com/oddjobs). 😃 (Although my boss – a small business owner – hates Bush, he suggested that it would be bad for business if I kept the bumper sticker on my Jeep and used the Jeep to visit potential customers. He didn’t tell me to take it off though. I did take it off, but I still have one on my motorcycle helmet. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/30 "2004-09-14T19:52:57Z")
What if the owner of the business was not the owner of the parking lot, such as in a case where many businesses lease space in a large building? Just curious. I am surprised that his tactics, of quashing her expression, firing her, and putting flyers in the paychecks, aren’t considered coercion. If discussing sex can be harassment, then isn’t punitive behavior also harassment? Hasn’t he created a “hostile working environment”? The bumper sticker incident alone might not cut it, but combined with the other acts he sends a pretty strong message. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/31 "2004-09-14T21:52:35Z")
**fessie** , harassment is legal. Sexual harrassment is illegal, as is firing someone because they are part of a protected class (see **Random** ’s post above), but these are exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/32 "2004-09-14T23:18:45Z")
[Kerry hires her](http://slate.msn.com/id/2106714/): > [@](#): > > late this afternoon, Kerry himself phoned Gobbell [the woman who was fired]. “He was telling me how proud he was that I stood up,”…“He’d read the part where Phil said I could either work for him or work for John Kerry. He said, ‘you let him know you’re working for me as of today.’ I was just so shocked.” > > Gobbell accepted Kerry’s job offer ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/33 "2004-09-14T23:40:40Z")
In this age of at will employment and free market economics, I hope this asswipe loses several of his clients. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/34 "2004-09-15T00:09:11Z")
No doubt he’ll gain clients too, 'cause he knows how to treat them damn anti-American liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/35 "2004-09-15T00:38:52Z")
> [@Earthling](#): > > [Kerry hires her](http://slate.msn.com/id/2106714/): That’s a great PR move… ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/36 "2004-09-15T01:08:07Z")
I followed [this](http://www.betterinsulation.com/search_results_for_marylandMFG1.htm) page to [Mr. Geddes](http://www.pgeddes.com/)’ web page. I wasn’t suprised to see a Chapter 13 standing trustee was a Bush supporter. Isn’t that a bit like the mortician befriending the clumsy surgeon? It’s good for business. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/37 "2004-09-15T01:47:31Z")
What happens to that poor woman when Kerry gets his ass handed to him in November? (I’m not **hoping** for it. I am **expecting** it.) ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/38 "2004-09-15T02:08:15Z")
What would happen to her if Kerry won? It’s not as if campaign workers who happen to be on the winning side automatically get invited to work in the administration. As it so happens, one of my co-workers has a son who is a higher-up in the Bush campaign. No guarantee that even he’ll be working for the GOP come mid-November. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/39 "2004-09-15T02:34:47Z")
> [@Random](#): > > You hire two people. One comes to your house every day or week and parks in your driveway. (Maybe she walks your dog, mows your lawn, or provides child care.) The other works in the coffee shop as a waiter. > > The dog walker has a large sign on the top of her car, which says “Protect the Unborn - Vote Bush”. Remember, this sign is in your driveway every day. > > The waiter wears a 4-inch diameter button that says “Protect Gun Rights - You’ll Get My Assault Rifle When You Pry It From My Cold Dead Hands.” > > You okay with both? Or can you tell your employees to express their political opinions on their own time? It’s simple; Fire the one with the smaller breasts. rimshot. Bizz ducks and runs ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2004, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/40 "2004-09-15T07:17:40Z")
> [@fessie](#): > > What if the owner of the business was not the owner of the parking lot, such as in a case where many businesses lease space in a large building? Just curious. Here in California, there’s a law against firing someone for off-duty conduct. Seems to me if the car wasn’t parked on the premises, driving to and from work would clearly be an off-duty activity. Of course, it didn’t happen in California, and we don’t know if the car was parked on the premises, but I thought it’d be interesting to bring it up anyway. > [@](#): > > AB 1689: > > 1. The Labor Commissioner and his or her deputies and > representatives authorized by him or her in writing shall, upon the > filing of a claim therefor by an employee, or an employee > representative authorized in writing by an employee, with the Labor > Commissioner, take assignments of: > > […] > > (k) Claims for loss of wages as the result of demotion, > suspension, or discharge from employment for lawful conduct occurring > during nonworking hours away from the employer’s premises. Oh, and what Kerry did - very cool. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316.md?page=3)