# Worker fired for Kerry sticker---sigh. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316 "2004-09-13T21:45:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/61 "2004-09-16T02:07:28Z")
> [@Random](#): > > So it appears that you and I, in the three hypothetical situations, would react in the same way if we were the employers in question. We’d tolerate the bumper sticker, but not the button or large car sign. Because you and I are decent people, and this poor person’s boss is worthless, pathetic scum. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/62 "2004-09-16T07:15:19Z")
> [@Random](#): > > Second exception is the public policy prohibition. Most of the cases here are ultimately based on a statute, either on express language in the statute, or by implication. I probably find some cases that aren’t, though. I suppose you could call these cases torts. > > Third exception is the breach of contract situation. These aren’t tort claims. > > Last question. No, it’s not impossible to sue, even if you don’t fit into one of these exceptions. Winning the case, or the fabled “settlement” is a different story. Any idiot can file a lawsuit, even **DesertGeezer**. People have filed suit against God and the Devil (real service of process problems here). Such nonsense cases are typically dismissed fairly quickly. I think you might be overstating it. Some lawyers are awfully good at finding _some_ statute that they can try to make a case for, and a lot of really shitty cases don’t automatically get dismissed. I recently served on a jury in a wrongful termination suit. The plaintiff’s theories were pretty weak, but it made it all the way through trial. In the article, it says Gobbell “consulted a lawyer”, then changed her mind about going to see the lawyer. Sounds to me like at least one lawyer seemed interested enough in the case that she was considering meeting with him. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/63 "2004-09-16T07:37:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I agree that Kerry hiring the woman was very cool. I do wish, however, that he would make proper political hay out of it. “Here’s my answer to your Patriot Act, Mr. Bush. Why don’t you let Americans speak their minds?” Or something to that effect. Considering that Bush wasn’t (directly) responsible for her firing, I don’t think that’d fly. Sure, Kerry could rail against the dipstick boss who fired her, but what’s the advantage in that? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/64 "2004-09-16T07:55:33Z")
> [@Random](#): > > Any idiot can file a lawsuit, even **DesertGeezer**. People have filed suit against God and the Devil (real service of process problems here). Such nonsense cases are typically dismissed fairly quickly. Sorry, **Random** , I guess I fell into the trap of believing that law and justivce have some relationship to each other. Silly of me. But I didn’t attack you personally, and I see no reason for your name-cailing even if this is the Pit. Did you say before that you were a lawyer? It’s obvious you aren’t a _civil_ one. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/65 "2004-09-16T09:31:46Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > It seems to me that the employer’s actions here are at least coersive and would violate your principals, **Lib**. Nonsense. It’s his property. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/66 "2004-09-16T09:32:50Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Considering that Bush wasn’t (directly) responsible for her firing, I don’t think that’d fly. > > Sure, Kerry could rail against the dipstick boss who fired her, but what’s the advantage in that? Yeah, actually it dawned on me later that Kerry voted for the Patriot [sic] Act. So, I guess that would clip its wings as well. […sigh…] ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/67 "2004-09-16T12:14:52Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Nonsense. It’s his property. The car is hers. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/68 "2004-09-16T12:20:31Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > The car is hers. I believe he was refering to the business and the parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/69 "2004-09-16T12:48:15Z")
I _know_ that. But the bumper sticker and the car are hers. The boss clearly initiated heavy-handed coersion to try to make her remove the sticker. Why are his “rights” more important than hers? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/70 "2004-09-16T16:35:47Z")
My theory – if I’ve agreed to employ you, and provide you with a place to park in order that you may transport yourself to work, I’ve implicitly consented to your placing your vehicle – your personal property – complete with whatever you choose to place on it within the bounds of accepted civil usage – on my real property – the parking lot I’m providing for you. And that boss’s company has just picked up a plethora of negative publicity. On the other hand, today’s noon news (WRAL-TV, here in Raleigh) used a news feed from Alabama on the case – and John Kerry took action to ensure that this woman did not suffer for standing for her political convictions. After thanking and congratulating her profusely for standing up for his campaign, he offered her a job working for his campaign, at a higher rate of pay than the $9 an hour she’d been making from “the Bushista Company.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/71 "2004-09-19T14:56:39Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > I _know_ that. But the bumper sticker and the car are hers. The boss clearly initiated heavy-handed coersion to try to make her remove the sticker. Why are his “rights” more important than hers? What a stupid question. Are you saying that if I pull into your driveway, my rights trump yours? She can park her car somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/72 "2004-09-19T14:59:45Z")
> [@Poly](#): > > My theory – if I’ve agreed to employ you, and provide you with a place to park in order that you may transport yourself to work, I’ve implicitly consented to your placing your vehicle – your personal property – complete with whatever you choose to place on it within the bounds of accepted civil usage – on my real property – the parking lot I’m providing for you. I’m afraid the phrase, “within the bounds of accepted civil usage”, which you might have added as an afterthought, considering the onerous possibilities of what a sign might say, you’ve simply raised another question; namely, who decides what is acceptable? If you say the majority, then don’t complain when the majority bans gay marriage or flag burning. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/73 "2004-09-19T16:18:39Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What a stupid question. Are you saying that if I pull into your driveway, my rights trump yours? She can park her car somewhere else. Which, as you well know, means that since there is no public property anywhere in Libertopia, no one has _any_ liberty in Libertopia except property owners, and then only when they’re sitting at home. What a wonderful place that Libertopia is! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/74 "2004-09-19T16:29:41Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Which, as you well know, means that since there is no public property anywhere in Libertopia, no one has _any_ liberty in Libertopia except property owners, and then only when they’re sitting at home. What a wonderful place that Libertopia is! Politicians just love how dumb you are. It is no different in Libertopia than Ameritopia — except that here, politicians own your land. It’s still the owners calling the shots. [http://www.castlecoalition.org/](http://www.castlecoalition.org/) [http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-rp061197.html](http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-rp061197.html) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/75 "2004-09-19T18:56:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m afraid the phrase, “within the bounds of accepted civil usage”, which you might have added as an afterthought, considering the onerous possibilities of what a sign might say, you’ve simply raised another question; namely, who decides what is acceptable? If you say the majority, then don’t complain when the majority bans gay marriage or flag burning. I don’t have this precisely defined, but it’s common consent that you may display a bumper sticker expressing your views, wear a T-shirt with a slogan on it, etc., and common consent is that you’re not doing anything out of the ordinary. On the other hand, there are things you may physically and legally do which are presently restricted by permit or other legal methodology. You may not, for example, erect a full-size billboard in your front yard expressing your political leanings, not because anyone wants to restrict your right to expression, but because its size and incongruity cause a traffic hazard by being a distraction, are considered to “disfigure” the neighborhood ambience, and may reduce your neighbors’ property values without their consent. Likewise, coming to work in a panel truck on which you have emblazoned your personal _idee fixe_ or _bete noire_ in large letters and graphic imagery is considered a bit beyond the pale. There is not a clear and definable line there – but some things are accepted personal expression, and others are a trespass on the sensibilities of those with whom you come in contact. And defining that line could be tricky – but I take a “Potter Stewart” approach to it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/76 "2004-09-19T19:12:43Z")
Then why impose upon someone else something that is so nebulous, even to yourself? Why not let the parking lot’s owner define for himself what he will and will not allow to be displayed in it? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/77 "2004-09-19T20:03:15Z")
Let’s see. Her boss includes a pro-Bush letter in with her paycheck. She, knowing full well that her boss is a Bush supporter, drives to work with a pro-Kerry sticker on her car. Yup, that makes them both assholes. I hate people who think they can order me who to vote for, and that goes for my boss, my husband, AND the parish priest. I also hate people who wear their politics on their sleeves and then act all indignant when confronted with equally passionate people on the opposing side. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/78 "2004-09-19T20:22:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What a stupid question. Are you saying that if I pull into your driveway, my rights trump yours? She can park her car somewhere else. If I invite you to my house, then I’m not going to demand that you remove a bumper sticker from your car. Because, yes, your right to your own bumper sticker is more important than my right for you not to sully my driveway. Libertopia is nothing but petty fiefdoms and this thread demonstrates the absolute inanity of it. A work contract is an agreement between parties for specific functions. What car I drive or what bumper stickers I have on it are unrelated to the job unless it’s specified in the employment agreement. Nowhere I have ever worked has tried to impose on my bumper sticker choice, and I suspect this asshole hadn’t previously stipulated in the employee handbook that he could arbitrarily tell you to remove one. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/79 "2004-09-19T20:28:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Politicians just love how dumb you are. It is no different in Libertopia than Ameritopia — except that here, politicians own your land. It’s still the owners calling the shots. So because there are weak points in the liberty protections of a democracy, we should just throw them entirely out? Is that what you’re saying? I have no problem with honest libertarians - people who think that property rights should trump all others. I think they’re dead wrong, but they don’t bother me much. You, however, are either a fucking idiot, or completely disingenuous, since you pretend to care about liberty, and vomit forth this glurge declaring that there would be less coercion under libertarianism than there is under something approximately like what we have. Sure, governments are by their nature coercive, and ofttimes repressive and ugly. However, privatizing all government functions would only serve to privatize the coercion while at the same time removing all checks and balances on the coercive power. If you think that will result in more liberty rather than less, then you don’t have any understanding of human nature. I will admit, though, that politicians won’t be caring much about how stupid you are, because raving lunatics don’t much matter in the grand scheme of things. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316/80 "2004-09-19T20:58:17Z")
Kerry has rewarded the worker for sticking to her beliefs. By [hiring her](http://slate.msn.com/id/2106714). Goebel relating to a phone conversation with Kerry. > [@](#): > > “He was telling me how proud he was that I stood up,” Gobbell told me. “He’d read the part where Phil said I could either work for him or work for John Kerry. He said, ‘you let him know you’re working for me as of today.’ I was just so shocked.” What a guy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worker-fired-for-kerry-sticker-sigh/264316.md?page=5)