# Workplace problem, seeking advice **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 25, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360 "2022-01-25T13:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/81 "2022-01-27T16:34:28Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Management isn’t powerless because of the FMLA. Management at some level _approved_ the FMLA. Funny, I was under the impression that the DOL were the entity who did the approving. ---
**Author:** ![SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19adc/32.png) [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpacemanSpiff_II)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/82 "2022-01-27T16:38:30Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Well, I know it’s what you decided is “exactly the problem” with the OP’s coworker, absent any of us actually knowing anything about the situation. The OP says he knows about the situation, and I’m taking his characterization (that the guy is “gaming the system”) at face value, as I believe is SOP on this MB. Between us two, neither have any actual knowledge but you appear to be disputing the premise that “gaming the system” is a valid concept at all. It’s real. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/83 "2022-01-27T16:39:37Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/84 "2022-01-27T16:40:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Right. But when you work in a hyper-political environment, this type of stuff happens. (And he’s not the worst offender. I almost lost my job in 2017 for wanting to get rid of a _completely_ useless part-time employee who was making $70/hour. Still licking my wounds over that one.) Best to not make waves. I get that. It’s just that it amazes me sometimes how hard people work at NOT working. Sometimes they put in more energy, set up more structures, and generally make their lives more complicated than if they just sat down and _worked_. Maybe it’s rebelliousness (“I don’t like being told what to do!”) or the challenge of seeing what they can get away with. Criminal enterprises seem that way sometimes, too. Of course, presumably there’s a big $$ payoff for criminals. But in an ordinary white-collar office not so much. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/85 "2022-01-27T16:50:28Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Are you looking for a reason to be pissed at him for starting the thread? I didn’t need to look for a reason, it was right there in the OP. > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > ou can be “entited” in the technical legal sense because you meet the legal requirements, but not be truly entitled in that you don’t really need it by commonly accepted workplace standards The “commonly accepted workplace standards” are _irrelevant_ if you meet the legal requirements. “commonly accepted workplace standards” is just a convoluted way of spelling “crab bucket”. > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > For example you can get a doctor - who works for you and has no connection to your employer - so certify that you have this or that medical need Employers can mandate a second (or third) opinion - on their _own_ dime. > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > The OP says he knows about the situation, and I’m taking his characterization (that the guy is “gaming the system”) at face value, as I believe is SOP on this MB. I didn’t know it was SOP here to blithely accept the accounts of people who openly admit they violate business ethics and workplace personal privacy standards. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/86 "2022-01-27T17:07:27Z")
poor coding. see next post. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/87 "2022-01-27T17:11:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I didn’t need to look for a reason, it was right there in the OP. In the interest of fairness to **MrDibble** , I suppose I ought to restore the post that I had second thoughts about and replaced with “never mind”: > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > > > To the extent that a given employee doesn’t genuinely have this need then they are violating the spirit of the law > > If they don’t have the need, they’re violating the actual _letter_ of the law. Which the company can actually check. > > > [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > > > MMM has information > > What MMM has is unethical hearsay. And him talking about it here is scuttlebutt. Are you looking for a reason to be pissed at him for starting the thread? Because that’s the vibe I’ve been getting from your posts. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/88 "2022-01-27T17:16:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I didn’t know it was SOP here to blithely accept the accounts of people who openly admit they violate business ethics and workplace personal privacy standards. ISTM that no violation occurs unless and until a person actually acts on it **in the workplace**.\* \*or in a workplace-adjacent context. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/89 "2022-01-27T17:17:33Z")
Nope, the federal DOL sets the rules and guidelines , and they handle allegations that the employer has violated the employee’s rights under the FMLA - but each individual request doesn’t go to the DOL. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/90 "2022-01-27T17:21:27Z")
Well, all of my applications have involved a confirmation letter, delivered to my home, from the Wages and Hours Division of the DOL. Perhaps the fact that I’m a Federal employee is a factor in that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/91 "2022-01-27T17:25:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > ISTM that no violation occurs unless and until a person actually acts on it **in the workplace** MMM has not reported the violation of his colleague’s medical privacy. That’s an actual action. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/92 "2022-01-27T17:28:25Z")
Scuttlebutt, rumor, office gossip. I’m getting the impression that your office might be a stressful place to work. Here’s a thought experiment: _Minh Tranh hasn’t been at work lately because he has COVID._ Did I just violate HIPAA by posting that? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/93 "2022-01-27T17:32:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Scuttlebutt, rumor, office gossip. > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I actually do know a lot of details about his FMLA This is not couched as rumour or gossip. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m getting the impression that your office might be a stressful place to work. My office isn’t a crab bucket, so no, not stressful at all. Also, we’re properly trained in ethical workplace behaviour and privacy. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Did I just violate HIPAA Did _I_ say anything about HIPAA? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/94 "2022-01-27T17:42:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This is not couched as rumour or gossip. Nor was it couched as having been delivered in the context of work-related communications. That you would open with the presumption that it was makes me wonder whether casual griping about conditions in the workplace falls into the category of “crab bucketing” in yours. In mine, it falls into the category of “recreation.” If I felt obliged to consider it “crab bucketing” and somehow circumscribed, I’d be stressed. ETA: > [@MrDibble](#): > > Did _I_ say anything about HIPAA? You did not. But you did mention medical privacy, which is largely what HIPAA is about, so I wondered. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/95 "2022-01-27T18:08:20Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > whether casual griping about conditions in the workplace falls into the category of “crab bucketing” in yours. No, making plans to violate another worker’s rights because you think he’s getting some privilege the rest of you don’t, is the crab bucketing. Thankfully, it looks like that’s been avoided - unless this meeting MMM mentioned continues the trend. Casual-griping-as-recreation is just a toxic work environment. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You did not. But you did mention medical privacy, which is largely what HIPAA is about It’s also what basic ethical behaviour is about. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/96 "2022-01-27T18:14:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Casual-griping-as-recreation is just a toxic **work** environment. Jesus, man, it’s _work_! Says so right on the tin! It’s _supposed_ to be toxic! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/97 "2022-01-27T18:15:57Z")
IMHO no, casual griping about coworkers is not a good kind of toxin. You never know what’s ailing a coworker. We had some toxic gossip here when one of our new hires disappeared from the face of the earth. Turns out she got in a car accident on the way to work. I’ve had some employees who have a hard cap on their hours because their disability coverage requires it - the employees who talk shit about that person being lazy / not working overtime are assholes. We had a case of cancer + chemo. I’ve only been managing a small \<10 employee practice for six years and this isn’t half of the stuff going on - this was all within the past 1 year. As an employee you really don’t know the whole story. Gripe about the workload I make you shoulder, or concerns that a job you feel responsible for won’t get done, not the _legitimacy_ of coworkers absences. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/98 "2022-01-27T18:20:56Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Jesus, man, it’s _work_ ! Says so right on the tin! It’s _supposed_ to be toxic! I can’t hear you above the sound of your claws clacking. Work doesn’t have to be _fun_, I’m inherently distrustful of _fun_, but it certainly doesn’t _have_ to be toxic. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/99 "2022-01-27T19:17:19Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I’m skeptical that there are very many managers out there whom you would call “very excellent”. Managers who are above-to-below bullshit transmission conduits are the more common, I think. You’re probably right, but I’ve had over 50% good ones in my career. And I tried to be a good one when I was a manager. People wanted to transfer into my group, so I probably did okay. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360/100 "2022-01-27T19:22:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Right. But when you work in a hyper-political environment, this type of stuff happens. (And he’s not the worst offender. I almost lost my job in 2017 for wanting to get rid of a _completely_ useless part-time employee who was making $70/hour. Still licking my wounds over that one.) Best to not make waves. Here’s the ultimate in political connections. During the days of the Soviet Union, most of the Russian workers for the UN were KGB agents, and they devoted a lot more time to spying than to the work they were supposed to do. My dad was on the promotion board, and he got into trouble voting against promotions for Russians who never showed up. This got confirmed by the memoir of the Russian Assistant Secretary General who defected to the West. He wrote that he argued with the KGB station head in NY about having his spies at least pretend to do some work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/workplace-problem-seeking-advice/958360.md?page=6)