# Works of Fiction Where the Villain is the (or a) Main Character **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778 "2012-05-13T15:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/21 "2012-05-13T23:44:52Z")
Star Wars III. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/22 "2012-05-13T23:45:17Z")
Quite a few Vincent Price movies: _Tower of London The Masque of the Red Death Master of the World Witchfinder General House of Wax The Abominable Doctor Phibes Doctor Phibes Rises Again The Invisible Man Returns_ Speaking of which, _The Invisible Man_. I have not read _The Island of Doctor Moreau_, but in the two film versions I have seen, Charles Laughton’s and Burt Lancaster’s scenes are far more memorable than the hero’s. _Kind Hearts and Coronets_ ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/23 "2012-05-13T23:48:34Z")
Dr. Horrible’s Sing Along Blog. Unforgiven. Salt (probably lots of spy movies…) ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/24 "2012-05-13T23:49:38Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Also, _Richard III._ Doesn’t count since [Richard III](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England) was a real person. Of course, many of the dirty deeds attributed to him in Shakespeare’s artful bit of character assassination he probably didn’t do in real life so it’s certainly arguable whether the play should be labelled as “fiction” or “biography”. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/25 "2012-05-14T00:03:58Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Doesn’t count since [Richard III](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England) was a real person. So was MacBeth. Neither of the plays was exactly what could be honestly called ‘historically accurate’, so ‘fiction’ is a fair description of both. ---
**Author:** ![congodwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@congodwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/congodwarf)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/26 "2012-05-14T00:50:05Z")
[Frailty](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264616/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/27 "2012-05-14T00:51:37Z")
No _Bonnie and Clyde_ yet? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/28 "2012-05-14T00:54:13Z")
Oh, good point. _Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid._ ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/29 "2012-05-14T00:55:45Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > There are two Agatha Christie novels where the killer turns out to be the narrator, so the entire story is told from the perspective of the villain. I’ll spoiler the titles, since in both cases the reader does not learn until the end that the narrator is the killer. > > _The Murder of Roger Ackroyd_, and the lesser known _Endless Night_. And another Christie novel (probably her best seller too): _Ten little Indians_ (also known as\* And then there were none)\* ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/30 "2012-05-14T00:55:58Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Salt (probably lots of spy movies…) I wouldn’t agree here. Salt is the main character, and it turns out she’s a sleeper agent - but very much _not_ a villain. She’s turned against her handlers, and opposes their plans to start WW3. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/31 "2012-05-14T01:00:41Z")
[_The Luck of Barry Lyndon,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Luck_of_Barry_Lyndon) by Thackeray. If you think he’s a total bastard in Kubrick’s film, believe me, he’s a saint compared to the Barry Lyndon of the novel. By the same token, hellbitch Becky Sharp is a quite incredibly sympathetic character in the 2004 adaptation of Thackeray’s _Vanity Fair._ It’s always that way. I guess directors figure that the reader of a novel can be made to sympathize with an unsympathetic character, through deep immersion in that character’s POV, but they despair of carrying that over to a film adaptation. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/32 "2012-05-14T02:10:36Z")
> [@glee](#): > > And another Christie novel (probably her best seller too): > > _Ten little Indians_ (also known as\* And then there were none)\* While none of the major characters in that book are particularly good people (which is, of course, sort of the point), I wouldn’t say the murderer in that one is the main character. IIRC, the murderer is “off screen” for much of the novel. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/33 "2012-05-14T02:17:40Z")
_Macbeth, Richard III, Othello,_ all have the villain as the POV character, the one who gets to break the fourth wall regularly. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/34 "2012-05-14T02:20:23Z")
Cronenberg’s **The Fly.** In fact, the protagonist and antagonist do a reversal, Seth Brundle becomes the villain and Stathis Borans saves the day. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/35 "2012-05-14T02:21:29Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Dr. Horrible’s Sing Along Blog. And the hero-antagonist is a huge jerk, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/36 "2012-05-14T02:21:47Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > Doesn’t count since [Richard III](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_III_of_England) was a real person. The OP does not exclude fictional characters based on real people. _Downfall_ should count, all main characters but Hitler’s secretary are villains. (And heroes in their own minds, which makes it still more interesting.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/37 "2012-05-14T02:22:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > _Macbeth, Richard III, Othello,_ all have the villain as the POV character, the one who gets to break the fourth wall regularly. I think Lady Macbeth and Iago, not the title characters, are arguably the villains of _Macbeth_ and _Othello_. I’m not that familiar with either play though (I’ve seen _Macbeth_ once, and have never seen _Othello_), so I wouldn’t be the best person to actually make that argument. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/38 "2012-05-14T02:25:23Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I think Lady Macbeth and Iago, not the title characters, are arguably the villains of _Macbeth_ and _Othello_. I’m not that familiar with either play though (I’ve seen _Macbeth_ once, and have never seen _Othello_), so I wouldn’t be the best person to actually make that argument. WRT Iago, that was **my** point. As for Lady Macbeth, she is the one who is too full o’ the milk of human kindness – she goes mad with guilt, while Macbeth commits ever-greater crimes unflinchingly. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/39 "2012-05-14T02:26:07Z")
Godzilla? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/40 "2012-05-14T02:28:34Z")
Crime stories told from the criminal’s POV, of course, make up a whole genre of their own. Where would Hollywood be without them? All the way back to _Scarface_ (1932), _The Public Enemy_ (with James Cagney), _Little Caesar_ (Edward G. Robinson), etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778.md?page=3)