# Works of Fiction Where the Villain is the (or a) Main Character **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778 "2012-05-13T15:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/81 "2012-05-17T00:19:48Z")
> [@psiekier](#): > > He ingratiates himself to the staff of a federal research outpost so that he can disable their defenses, allowing a mutineer who has captured a small military vessel to land and refuel. > > That he eventually joins the scientists to make a desperate last stand against the marauders when they finally arrive redeems him, though you’d have to question why - if he were planning to do this all along - would he have lowered the defenses in the first place. You, like Jack, caught the part about ‘allowing that mutineer to land and refuel’, as spelled out maybe 25% of the way into the book. No offense, but you apparently missed Jack catching something else much later: well after he’d disabled the defenses, and maybe 90% of the way through to the end. [QUOTE=ARMOR] _“But Borglyn…”_ I began and stopped, suddenly, seeing it all at last. _“Borglyn was never just coming for fuel. He’s coming to stay, isn’t he? He’s coming to take over.”_ Wice’s mouth was open. _“You didn’t know? You really didn’t know?”_ [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/82 "2012-05-17T00:23:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, I think rebels and revolutionaries would fall under a whole different literary category than “villain,” unless the point of the story is to so portray them. Robert E. Lee is no “villain” in any literary or cinematic treatment I’ve ever encountered, regardless of its political POV, which is hardly ever pro-Confederate. Luke Skywalker, OTOH, needs hanging. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/83 "2012-05-17T00:31:25Z")
**The Lodger** **Hangover Square** Both played by the same actor, too (Laird Cregar). ---
**Author:** ![Nightfall1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@Nightfall1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightfall1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/84 "2012-05-17T00:36:44Z")
The short stories and novels of Luff Imbry by Matthew Hughes ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/85 "2012-05-17T00:43:18Z")
two pages, and no mention of **The Godfather**? Michael is easily the worst villain in the first two movies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/86 "2012-05-17T00:49:38Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > two pages, and no mention of **The Godfather**? > > Michael is easily the worst villain in the first two movies. But, he renounced Satan and all his works! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/87 "2012-05-17T01:03:25Z")
A Clockwork Orange. The protagonist is a murderer and rapist. ---
**Author:** ![SecretaryofEvil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@SecretaryofEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecretaryofEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/88 "2012-05-17T02:16:50Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > IMO, the ‘main characters’ of the series are the ones with POV chapters. > > At least up to about 1/5 of the way through the third book (as far as I’ve gotten yet) there is zero overlap between them and the few characters who could, IMO, be legitimately called villains - Cersi, Joffrey, Jamie, Melisandre, a couple others. > > The POV characters occasionally do real bad shit, or are on the wrong side of one of the conflicts, but they’re still not villains. They’re people stuck in messed up situations that they’re trying to make the best of…even if the reason they’re stuck there is that they owe some sort of loyalty to the proper villains. You’re only half way through. I know how people hate spoilers about the series on this board, so I’ll only say that by the end of the 5th book, there are plenty of chapters from the POV of people who could be considered villains. I suppose there could be debate about which characters count as main, but since there are so many characters in ASOIF, I think a larger than average number of characters could be considered main characters. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778/89 "2012-05-17T02:25:42Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > IMO, the ‘main characters’ of the series are the ones with POV chapters. > > At least up to about 1/5 of the way through the third book (as far as I’ve gotten yet) there is zero overlap between them and the few characters who could, IMO, be legitimately called villains - Cersi, Joffrey, Jamie, Melisandre, a couple others. > > The POV characters occasionally do real bad shit, or are on the wrong side of one of the conflicts, but they’re still not villains. They’re people stuck in messed up situations that they’re trying to make the best of…even if the reason they’re stuck there is that they owe some sort of loyalty to the proper villains. Keep reading. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/works-of-fiction-where-the-villain-is-the-or-a-main-character/621778.md?page=4)