# World Cup 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 7, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615 "2018-06-07T18:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/301 "2018-06-17T16:21:41Z")
God, if the Mexicans were a little better technically, they would be ahead 3-0. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/302 "2018-06-17T16:31:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Handling, whatever. 5 internet points for you for needless pedantry. Another 5 points for “deliberate” vs “intentional.” :rolleyes: > > So, in the majority of handling calls, you think the offender intended to use an arm to control the ball? I just don’t see it. > > The USSF gives advice on handling that states: > > “‘Deliberate contact’ means that the player could have avoided the touch but chose not to, that the player’s arms were not in a normal playing position at the time, or that the player deliberately continued an initially accidental contact for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage.” > > Which is how all the refs call the game and is fine. However, having your arm in a not natural playing position in no way makes touching the ball deliberate and that’s where most of the fouls come in. The natural position of an arm when defending a cross is not behind the back, but that’s what defenders do because penalties are called all the time for unintentional deflections of crosses. The first and third part are relatively rare. You are wrong. Having the hand in an unnatural position demonstrates that you put your hand there deliberately (this is the point to the use of the word “deliberate” vs. “intentional”). You are putting your arm there with the idea that the ball might strike it. Elsewise, you wouldn’t have your arm there; it’s not natural. Here’s a simple example: You are a defender facing a player who is readying a cross. You hold your arms out to the side, low, palms open. The player strikes the ball hard; your arm does not move, the ball hits your arm. Did you “intentionally” handle the ball? No. But did you “deliberately” handle it? Yes, because you placed your arm there with deliberation, so that the ball might strike it. By comparison, you might just have had your arms hanging at your sides, and the same thing happens. In that case, there’s no “deliberation”. As a referee, I have lots of ways to try and decide whether or not a player has “deliberately” handled a ball. Movement of the arm before the contact, for example. The position of the arm is one of those things (btw, you should not still be referring to the USSF “Advice to Referees On the Laws of the Game”, which is no longer updated to reflect the revised Laws of the Game, and which, I believe, has not been updated and re-issued since 2014(?)). As a US Soccer referee pointed out once in a 2010 answer to a question on this, the “natural” position of female players for balance may be different from that of male players doing the same thing. We aren’t trying to determine “intent” at the moment of the handling, but, rather, whether or not thought went into the positioning. So, no, I wasn’t being “pedantic”. I was correcting you on your mis-understanding of the whole point of the law. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/303 "2018-06-17T16:33:49Z")
I imagine that the Mexican fans in general will be applying the transitive property to football matches, and considering that, if the Mexican team is able to win against the side that steamrolled Brazil 7-1 in the last World Cup competition, then that means that Mexico has won against Brazil! 😉 But, seriously, well done for Mexico, and I agree with **madsircool** : better luck/finesse/technique on the part of the Mexicans, and they would be well ahead by now. (And Germany _almost_ scores again. A few inches to the left, and…) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/304 "2018-06-17T16:36:36Z")
Well, the Germans never do well in Russia. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/305 "2018-06-17T16:38:25Z")
Germany. There is passing and possession. Then there is telegraphing the punch. The attacks are predictable. You need to mix it up a bit. Try a long ball. Try a to get a bit more physical. And for God’s sake don’t leave 35 empty yards at the back. A better team than Mexico would have scored 4 on counter attack alone. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/306 "2018-06-17T16:41:42Z")
Mexico is horrible on the break. Should be up by two or three, if they had any ability to pass. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/307 "2018-06-17T16:42:50Z")
8 minutes (+ injury time) left. Germany looks somewhat desperate there. Shooting at the goal, **nice** saving by the Mexican goalie! It looks as if the Germans are getting a bit more physical than before… hopefully this will not end up like the Germany vs France match of 1982 in the World Cup championship in Spain, because that one was gnarly… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/308 "2018-06-17T16:46:59Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > 8 minutes (+ injury time) left. Germany looks somewhat desperate there. Shooting at the goal, **nice** saving by the Mexican goalie! > > It looks as if the Germans are getting a bit more physical than before… hopefully this will not end up like the Germany vs France match of 1982 in the World Cup championship in Spain, because that one was gnarly… Ahh…Schumacher. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/309 "2018-06-17T16:47:10Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Mexico is horrible on the break. Should be up by two or three, if they had any ability to pass. Absolutely. If Mexico had a better technique and “shrewdness” in the counter-attack, we might be witnessing something like the Brazil-Germany of 2014, only with the shoe on the other foot. And Germany pressing like mad now, with 3 minutes of injury time… but I am afraid it is going to be too little, too late… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/310 "2018-06-17T16:51:29Z")
Words I never thought I would say: Great effort from Mexico. Great concentration. They contested everything. They deserve their win. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/311 "2018-06-17T16:51:58Z")
And it is over! Mexico 1 - Germany 0. Historic result for Mexico. And Germany had not lost an opening game in the World Cup in _ **ages** _! I think that it was in 1982, against Algeria. (That stinging defeat might have had something to do with the later “Gijón non-aggression pact” between Germany and Austria, which screwed Algeria three ways from Sunday). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/312 "2018-06-17T16:53:26Z")
Well, shucks, I lost a meal I betted with Ms. Buster, but that was the best bet to lose. Viva Mexico! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/313 "2018-06-17T16:54:54Z")
For Germany they lost at the best possible place: Game 1 of group stage. They will regroup. For Mexico there is the real possibility of a letdown against South Korea. The possibility of a Germany v Brazil round of 16 match is now very likely. ---
**Author:** ![nachtmusick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@nachtmusick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nachtmusick)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/314 "2018-06-17T16:55:03Z")
Mexico! Nice job by Ochoa. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/315 "2018-06-17T16:59:37Z")
Predictable attacks made after about an average of 916 pasess. Defenders playing further forward than actual forwards, caught out of position… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/316 "2018-06-17T17:05:01Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Predictable attacks made after about an average of 916 pasess. Defenders playing further forward than actual forwards, caught out of position… Your analysis is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/317 "2018-06-17T17:06:31Z")
Over confident and over hyped like France in 2002. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/318 "2018-06-17T17:16:04Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Your analysis is spot on. If you did not know who he was you could be forgiven for thinking Kimmich was a CF not a LB ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/319 "2018-06-17T17:20:25Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > If you did not know who he was you could be forgiven for thinking Kimmich was a CF not a LB Germany didn’t seem to have a CF in the match. With all respect to Snarky Kong, we can now appreciate how important Klose was to Germany. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/320 "2018-06-17T17:21:10Z")
Pass heavy tiki takka style gameplay need a good fast/powerful CF up front. Like Torres, Villa, Eto’o or errr Klose. Not jumped up mid fielders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=17)