# World Cup 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 7, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615 "2018-06-07T18:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/621 "2018-06-24T01:17:56Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Ah, got it…thanks. Yes, that is looking likely! Should be a great match. > > ETA: I haven’t been following how the elimination round brackets work…perhaps they can’t meet in the final match, no matter what? My prediction was based on Brazil winning Group E and Germany being runner-up in Group F, or vice-versa. If they both finish 1st or both finish 2nd, then I believe they can still meet in the semis. This is based on memory so could be off. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/622 "2018-06-24T01:18:55Z")
I see…but definitely not in the final match, is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/623 "2018-06-24T01:29:51Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I see…but definitely not in the final match, is that correct? Yes, they could meet in the final match (unless something has happened since the tournament began which prevents this?): [https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/07/football/world-cup-russia-2018-predictor-brazil-spt/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/07/football/world-cup-russia-2018-predictor-brazil-spt/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/624 "2018-06-24T01:36:26Z")
Actually, I think they can only meet in the Final, and no other stage, if they are both 1st or both 2nd in their respective groups. If they are opposite, they automatically meet in the RO16. So if they do face each other, it’s either the RO16 or the Final. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/625 "2018-06-24T01:37:58Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Actually, I think they can only meet in the Final, and no other stage, if they are both 1st or both 2nd in their respective groups. If they are opposite, they automatically meet in the RO16. So if they do face each other, it’s either the RO16 or the Final. Danke/obbrigado. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/626 "2018-06-24T01:45:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > that was a bad call on the penalty shot. You can’t play soccer with your arms in your pocket. You need them for balance. The logic that he was trying to block the ball with his body and therefore it’s a handball is complete nonsense. It’s basic math. You are within X distance of a player and he has Y amount of time to react and move his arm away. There’s no way the player could have avoided being hit in the arm with the ball. > > I missed the second half so I don’t know who “deserved” to win but that penalty shot was a poor call IMO. Oh, nonsense. A player who is sliding to make a stop doesn’t need to put his arm in the air directly over his body in the way of where the likely kick will go. He’s not putting it there for balance; he could just as easily slide with his hand on the ground, or out in front of him, or a thousand other places. He’s got it in the air for one reason and one reason only, and if you weren’t to call it, you’d be ignoring that fact. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/627 "2018-06-24T01:46:27Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Korea’s goal was amazing. > I think the handball was a very close call — could be justified either way. > What do you (Mijin) mean by the other Mexico goal being suspect? Possibly offsides? The goal by Chicharito followed a foul upfield that dispossessed the Korean player. He was hacked from behind, and falls to the ground while another Korean takes possession and starts the play the other direction. I haven’t looked at it closely to see why it wasn’t considered a foul by the referee. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/628 "2018-06-24T01:53:48Z")
There are only two ways for Germany and Brazil to meet: If one is a group winner, and the other a group runner-up, then they can only meet in the Round of 16 (either match 53 or match 55). If both are group winners, or both are group runners-up, then they can only meet in the final. The Group E winner is in the top bracket, and the Group F winner is in the bottom bracket; of necessity, the runners-up from each group are in the opposite brackets. > **[2018 FIFA World Cup knockout stage | Bracket](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_knockout_stage#Bracket)** > > The teams had faced each other in 11 previous matches, including two World Cup group stage matches, both won by Argentina (1–0 in 1930, and 2–1 in 1978). > After nine minutes, Antoine Griezmann's 25-yard free-kick crashed back off Franco Armani's crossbar. After picking the ball up deep inside his own half, Kylian Mbappé set off on a run that was halted when Marcos Rojo hauled him down just inside the area. Griezmann stepped up and converted from the spot, sending the ball low to Armani's right. F... ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/629 "2018-06-24T02:05:08Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I suppose it’s pretty much guaranteed that Germany will beat SK. Looking more and more like a Brazil-Germany RO16 battle. While Brazil is far more talented, the Germans have the psychological advantage after 7-1 the last World Cup. But luckily no David Luiz this time. That said, Neymar is perfectly capable of getting a yellow next match to get banned for the RO16 match. Hopefully Silva doesn’t pull a similar stunt like last time. I still think Brazil would have beaten Germany last time, and won the World Cup, had it not been for the Neymar being injured and Silva getting that 2nd yellow for GK interference. But perhaps that will be the motivation this time. Far more talented? You must be joking. Except for Neymar, at which positions are the Brazilians far more talented? Brazil hasn’t looked better than Germany thus far…in a far easier group. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/630 "2018-06-24T02:08:01Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > My prediction was based on Brazil winning Group E and Germany being runner-up in Group F, or vice-versa. If they both finish 1st or both finish 2nd, then I believe they can still meet in the semis. This is based on memory so could be off. I think they could only meet in the finals. E1 and F1 or E2 and F2 would be in different halves of the bracket. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/631 "2018-06-24T02:35:13Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Oh, nonsense. A player who is sliding to make a stop doesn’t need to put his arm in the air directly over his body in the way of where the likely kick will go. He’s not putting it there for balance; he could just as easily slide with his hand on the ground, or out in front of him, or a thousand other places. He’s got it in the air for one reason and one reason only, and if you weren’t to call it, you’d be ignoring that fact. nonsense back at you. The idea that he deliberately blocked the ball requires proof. without that the referee is essentially saying an arm anywhere at the time of the kick was a deliberate attempt to block it. In this picture the defender’s [eyes are closed](https://goo.gl/images/ZJQYPW). Tell me how he deliberately blocked the kick. every other player has their arms out. Any one of those players could have been charged using the logic the ref used. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/632 "2018-06-24T03:27:01Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Far more talented? You must be joking. Except for Neymar, at which positions are the Brazilians far more talented? Brazil hasn’t looked better than Germany thus far…in a far easier group. Germany is better at 2-3 positions. Give you Neuer and Kroos and one more, probably the right back but only because Dani Alves is injured. Think about it, most of the Brazilians excel, or have excelled, in La Liga and EPL. Bundesliga is a step below. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/633 "2018-06-24T03:56:21Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Korea’s goal was amazing. > I think the handball was a very close call — could be justified either way. > What do you (Mijin) mean by the other Mexico goal being suspect? Possibly offsides? Mexico got possession by chopping a player down. The foul was blatant enough that many of the SK players were arguing with the ref while Mexico was already surging forwards. No quibbles about the rest of the move though. For the penalty, yeah I’d say it was borderline but just on the line of “no penalty”. As **Magiver** said, you can’t play with your hands in your pocket, and on the replay it looks a fairly natural place for his arm to be to keep balance. And, again, I think the final result was a fair reflection. SK did play well, but they made a lot of mistakes too, that Mexico should, and very nearly did, capitalize on. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/634 "2018-06-24T04:05:24Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Germany is better at 2-3 positions. Give you Neuer and Kroos and one more, probably the right back but only because Dani Alves is injured. Think about it, most of the Brazilians excel, or have excelled, in La Liga and EPL. Bundesliga is a step below. That is absolute nonsense. The Germans prove it on the pitch. Brazil, like my Lakers, are living on their past glory. You have nothing…nothing…to prove your point. Brazil has been mediocre against weaker opponents. La Liga and the EPL aren’t great because of Brazilians. And the Bundesliga top to bottom is not a step below. In fact, la liga and the EPL mine it for talent developed in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/635 "2018-06-24T04:35:25Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > That is absolute nonsense. The Germans prove it on the pitch. Brazil, like my Lakers, are living on their past glory. You have nothing…nothing…to prove your point. Brazil has been mediocre against weaker opponents. La Liga and the EPL aren’t great because of Brazilians. And the Bundesliga top to bottom is not a step below. In fact, la liga and the EPL mine it for talent developed in Germany. Let’s start from your prior post. You are verifiably wrong about whose group is more difficult. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th teams in Brazil’s group are all stronger than their counterparts in Germany’s group. But that’s not the point. How many Germans have succeeded outside of Germany? Kroos and ? What mining do you speak of? Ozil, Khedira? Decent but not players that can carry a team. Have you seen the Brazilian talent filling up every league in the world? You find their throwaways winning everywhere in the world. Neymar, Coutinho, Marcelo, Silva… best in the world at their positions. Probably can put Casemiro in that bucket too. And Alves until very recently. Plus will always take a healthy Jesus today over whoever is up front from Germany. If you seriously think that Bundesliga compares to Spain or England, top to bottom, then I really can’t help you. Today, even Serie A is better. While Bayern is stacked, they almost never have any real competition. I’m not saying Germany has no talent. They are still world class, but talent-wise player-to-player, they are far behind Brazil and probably even behind France, Spain and Belgium. That’s why they deserve the credit they get. Their system is stable and they can plug in new pieces of varying levels of talent and still win. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/636 "2018-06-24T12:38:50Z")
3-0 England. 3 more goals from England and they can overtake Belgium on goal difference. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/637 "2018-06-24T12:40:19Z")
And just as I type that, 4! ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/638 "2018-06-24T12:45:11Z")
Headed for five with another penalty call off a corner kick. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/639 "2018-06-24T12:47:06Z")
Have England found the ghost of Henry Morgan??? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/640 "2018-06-24T12:47:48Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Let’s start from your prior post. You are verifiably wrong about whose group is more difficult. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th teams in Brazil’s group are all stronger than their counterparts in Germany’s group. > > But that’s not the point. How many Germans have succeeded outside of Germany? Kroos and ? What mining do you speak of? Ozil, Khedira? Decent but not players that can carry a team. Have you seen the Brazilian talent filling up every league in the world? You find their throwaways winning everywhere in the world. Neymar, Coutinho, Marcelo, Silva… best in the world at their positions. Probably can put Casemiro in that bucket too. And Alves until very recently. Plus will always take a healthy Jesus today over whoever is up front from Germany. > > If you seriously think that Bundesliga compares to Spain or England, top to bottom, then I really can’t help you. Today, even Serie A is better. While Bayern is stacked, they almost never have any real competition. > > I’m not saying Germany has no talent. They are still world class, but talent-wise player-to-player, they are far behind Brazil and probably even behind France, Spain and Belgium. That’s why they deserve the credit they get. Their system is stable and they can plug in new pieces of varying levels of talent and still win. Your very odd opinions. The Bundesliga is a real league with financial rules. Its far more balanced than any other league save the EPL. It has and is producing better players than any other league in the world. Sweden and Mexico are better than Switzerland and Serbia. Hate away. Its the World Cup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=33)