# World Cup 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 7, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615 "2018-06-07T18:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1182 "2018-07-02T23:34:46Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > How Neymar doesn’t get a yellow every game for simulation is beyond me. Well, simulation is basically never called, but it should be. > > The announcers are discussing whether the Mexican player should be sent off, for stepping on Neymar’s toe slightly. The 4th official got it worse and didn’t flail around on the ground. Argh. Least favorite part of soccer. While I’m no fan of his writhing around, he literally gets fouled more than anyone else due his ability to dribble circles around every defender there is, and then fly past them with his speed. Refs just stop calling fouls so I think he compensates by exaggerating. It’s circular. But it’s definitely not a good look, and I think it actually hurts him since he gets the “boy who cried wolf” treatment. I disagree about the Mexican player digging his cleat into Neymar’s ankle. That should have been a straight red. It was obviously intentional, even if the pain probably wasn’t what Neymar makes of it. In his mind, he already lost a World Cup because a Colombian kneed him in the back so hard it broke a vertebrae, so seeks better protection. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1183 "2018-07-02T23:44:17Z")
Yeah, he gets fouled a lot. Don’t think that excuses his antics one iota. Digging his cleat in? Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree with that characterization of what happened. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1184 "2018-07-03T02:19:20Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Especially sad because they’ve shown a ton of heart throughout this whole tournament. Well, except for the last 15 minutes of the Poland match, which was absolutely pathetic. I was hoping Senegal would score to rightly put Japan out. > [@](#): > > Their goalie is legit. Legit awful. He’s 35, shouldn’t have even been on the team let alone part of the starting 11. He looked massively suspect the entire tournament. Actually the entire team is old - Inui has been a revelation; arguably one of the best players in the entire tournament, but he’s 30 (where’s he been this whole time). Honda and the rest of the team equally long in the tooth, will be interesting to see what happens between now and Qatar. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1185 "2018-07-03T02:24:40Z")
I will say, Japan probably won back a lot of fans for their ‘go for it’ approach right up to the very end (which cruelly backfired). Why didn’t they do what Brazil did vs Mexico and leave a couple of players back on corners etc. to slow down any possible quick counter-attacks? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1186 "2018-07-03T02:30:41Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, except for the last 15 minutes of the Poland match, which was absolutely pathetic. I was hoping Senegal would score to rightly put Japan out. > > Legit awful. He’s 35, shouldn’t have even been on the team let alone part of the starting 11. He looked massively suspect the entire tournament. > Actually the entire team is old - Inui has been a revelation; arguably one of the best players in the entire tournament, but he’s 30 (where’s he been this whole time). Honda and the rest of the team equally long in the tooth, will be interesting to see what happens between now and Qatar. They are playing in Copa America 2019. We’ll see if they begin a youth movement. Japanese culture treasures experience however. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1187 "2018-07-03T04:54:40Z")
Doesn’t anybody want to win this thing? I thought that this’d be the one game in the Round of 16 that’d be a snoozer, not one of the greatest comebacks I can remember in WC history. You can’t say this has been boring. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1188 "2018-07-03T13:20:18Z")
I like that Germany didn’t fire Low. Continuity is a very underrated condition in football. Had the German Federation sent their young Confederations Cup squad or at least Mane and Sandro Wagner they likely would have been playing today yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1189 "2018-07-03T14:21:32Z")
Am I the only one who believes that there has been a dearth of big strong CFs? We have a world class and ancient one in Ibrahimovich here in Los Angeles. Tell me he wouldn’t have made a difference for many of the sides at this World Cup. Yesterday Mexico were slinging tons of crosses into the box but the Brazilian defenders easily headed them away because Mexico uses 3 false 9s along their front line. And Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1190 "2018-07-03T14:26:25Z")
Diego Costa. Cavani. Giroud. Lukaku. Kane. Mandžukić. Not sure that that compares to large elite strikers at previous world cups. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1191 "2018-07-03T14:35:01Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Am I the only one who believes that there has been a dearth of big strong CFs? We have a world class and ancient one in Ibrahimovich here in Los Angeles. Tell me he wouldn’t have made a difference for many of the sides at this World Cup. Yesterday Mexico were slinging tons of crosses into the box but the Brazilian defenders easily headed them away because Mexico uses 3 false 9s along their front line. And Germany. Imagine Ibra playing tonight. You are not wrong. Its just that the past 10-12 years have seen strikers be less relevant and with Strikerless formation becoming popular. Even though, as we have discussed upthread that the most successful teams are those who **did** have excellent CF, like Barca, Spain, Germany. Its just that teams have figured out how to counter\* possession heavy football. If you play that way, then you can do without a dedicated CF, but if you get countered you are in trouble. \*The commentator in Swe v Swt is saying that the that the Swedes have had between 25%-33% possession in their last two games. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1192 "2018-07-03T14:38:59Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Diego Costa. Cavani. Giroud. Lukaku. Kane. Mandžukić. > > Not sure that that compares to large elite strikers at previous world cups. Costa: Yes Cavani:Big man, but often deployed on the wings and plays as SS Giroud: Same as above Lukaku: Yup Kane: Yes Mandzukic: Along with Costa the only out and out striker their is in your list. Even Kane and Lukaku play deeper. In early 2000 people played with 2 strikers and often had two others. Nowadays you have a sole striker, and often a false 9 instead. Half the time your “strikers” are midfielders ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1193 "2018-07-03T14:41:05Z")
Another interesting statistic just mentioned on TV, in the first half of the tournament, nearly half of all goals were from set pieces, compared with just about 20% in 2014 and 2010. People have figured out possession football. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1194 "2018-07-03T14:45:26Z")
Going back only to 2014 you had most of my list for 2018 plus Drogba, van Persie, Balotelli, and Dzeko. But yeah, players like Jan Koller or Ruud van Nistelrooy are pretty rare anymore. Maybe they’ll make a comeback if it becomes obvious you need someone that can really break down a defense on the dribble like a prime Messi or Neymar to make possession happy teams super successful. I think big men might come back, but the “out and out striker” probably won’t. Those guys tend to play that way because they’re not skilled enough not to. You’d always prefer a Lukaku that can play deeper but also crash the box and slam home a header over a smaller defender. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1195 "2018-07-03T14:47:48Z")
Not the most exciting half of football ever. Barring a defensive mistake in betting 0-0 and PKs. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1196 "2018-07-03T14:51:59Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Going back only to 2014 you had most of my list for 2018 plus Drogba, van Persie, Balotelli, and Dzeko. > > But yeah, players like Jan Koller or Ruud van Nistelrooy are pretty rare anymore. Maybe they’ll make a comeback if it becomes obvious you need someone that can really break down a defense on the dribble like a prime Messi or Neymar to make possession happy teams super successful. I think big men might come back, but the “out and out striker” probably won’t. Those guys tend to play that way because they’re not skilled enough not to. You’d always prefer a Lukaku that can play deeper but also crash the box and slam home a header over a smaller defender. And Vierri, Shearer and Klinnsman. I believe a modified CF will return because getting goals off a cross in traffic can break down compact defenses like we saw from Brazil yesterday. I totally agree about Lukaku. I think earlier CFs could do that but weren’t asked. I can’t wait to see how he does against Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1197 "2018-07-03T14:56:21Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Not the most exciting half of football ever. Barring a defensive mistake in betting 0-0 and PKs. Some rum old finishing attempts from Johnny Swede. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1198 "2018-07-03T15:05:35Z")
Those warlike Swedes are partially responsible for the founding of St Petersburg. 😛 [http://www.cityvision2000.com/history/northern.htm](http://www.cityvision2000.com/history/northern.htm) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1199 "2018-07-03T15:24:13Z")
An own goal for the Swedes. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1200 "2018-07-03T15:34:16Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Going back only to 2014 you had most of my list for 2018 plus Drogba, van Persie, Balotelli, and Dzeko. > > But yeah, players like Jan Koller or Ruud van Nistelrooy are pretty rare anymore. Maybe they’ll make a comeback if it becomes obvious you need someone that can really break down a defense on the dribble like a prime Messi or Neymar to make possession happy teams super successful. I think big men might come back, but the “out and out striker” probably won’t. Those guys tend to play that way because they’re not skilled enough not to. You’d always prefer a Lukaku that can play deeper but also crash the box and slam home a header over a smaller defender. 1. Lukaku is a great CF. But he has to play deep or if he is playing forward, then the opposition defenders need to be crap. Its very easy these days for defences to split the striker from the MF feeders; see the Spain Russia game, Costa barely got a touch. The counter to that is the long pass. Which few players are good at these days. Xavi, Alonso and Pirlo were excellent with them on the ground and Beckham in the air. None of the Spanish or German sides were good aat it. Imagine a prime Beckham or Xavi on the Spanish side versus Russia. Would have ripped them apart. 2. Small Guys like Messi and Neymar are vulnerable to physical play. Even at his prime, Messi was countered by big hard tackling DM like Eissen in 2009 or Alonso in La Liga or Obi Mikel in 2012. What with referees becoming less harsh on fouls … ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1201 "2018-07-03T16:01:59Z")
Another clean sheet for the Swedes. 5 out of their last 6 matches iirc. Its not inconceivable to see them defend their way into the final. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=61)