# World Cup 2018 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 7, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615 "2018-06-07T18:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1202 "2018-07-03T16:15:07Z")
Colombian Ambassador complains about The Suns’ Go Kane front page. 😛 > **[Colombian ambassador complains about Sun's 'GO KANE!' front page](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jul/03/the-sun-go-kane-colombian-ambassador-complains-world-cup-england)** > > Headline refers to country’s links to drug trade before World Cup match against England ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1203 "2018-07-03T16:49:59Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_YiG7yN7PY) ¡Vamanos Ingleterra! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1204 "2018-07-03T16:50:13Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Colombian Ambassador complains about The Suns’ Go Kane front page. 😛 > > [Colombian ambassador complains about Sun's 'GO KANE!' front page | The Sun | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jul/03/the-sun-go-kane-colombian-ambassador-complains-world-cup-england) i think that always says far more about the complaining country. What exactly do they think the UK government can or will do about it? It’s a free press. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1205 "2018-07-03T17:09:55Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. Lukaku is a great CF. But he has to play deep or if he is playing forward, then the opposition defenders need to be crap. Its very easy these days for defences to split the striker from the MF feeders; see the Spain Russia game, Costa barely got a touch. The counter to that is the long pass. Which few players are good at these days. Xavi, Alonso and Pirlo were excellent with them on the ground and Beckham in the air. None of the Spanish or German sides were good aat it. Imagine a prime Beckham or Xavi on the Spanish side versus Russia. Would have ripped them apart. You forgot possibly the best of all - Paul Scholes. Also, to a lesser extent, Steven Gerrard. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1206 "2018-07-03T17:10:19Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > 1. Lukaku is a great CF. But he has to play deep or if he is playing forward, then the opposition defenders need to be crap. Its very easy these days for defences to split the striker from the MF feeders; see the Spain Russia game, Costa barely got a touch. The counter to that is the long pass. Which few players are good at these days. Xavi, Alonso and Pirlo were excellent with them on the ground and Beckham in the air. None of the Spanish or German sides were good aat it. Imagine a prime Beckham or Xavi on the Spanish side versus Russia. Would have ripped them apart. > > 2. Small Guys like Messi and Neymar are vulnerable to physical play. Even at his prime, Messi was countered by big hard tackling DM like Eissen in 2009 or Alonso in La Liga or Obi Mikel in 2012. What with referees becoming less harsh on fouls … 1. Hmm. Iniesta is a great passer. Less so than with the long pass, but I think you usually need someone to break the shape of a defense. Or, whip in accurate passes in the air and have your large forward dominate. So yes to Beckham. I think Xavi or Pirlo would have struggled to slip passes in behind or to break lines of defense through such a big bunker. Messi is also a fantastic passer, and Argentina were ineffective against Iceland’s bunker. Aguero is definitely not the preferred target man though so not as good a data point. Potentially a third option after elite crosses and dribbling are powerful long distance shots. Try to force the defense forward a bit or give up a rebound. 1. Yeah, if you have an elite DM, that’s the preferred counter to an elite dribbler. Every attack has a preferred type of defense though. As a defending team, would you rather have to defend against an elite dribbler with an elite DM or an elite header with an elite CB? Now that I put it to paper, I might go with the former. If you get beat on the dribble hopefully there’s cover. If you get punked on a cross there’s a high chance of a goal. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1207 "2018-07-03T17:29:50Z")
I think for an elite DM you want the big strapping type, like Alonso or Mekelele. The pacy slender type is just asking for trouble. Like Carrick\* in his two finals against Messi. As for Xavi, _au contraire_. Note that Torres was still scoring for La Roja while struggling at Chelsea. Because he was being fed accurate ball…something Stevie G had done for him at Liverpool and which Lampard refused to do at Chelsea; the one season he played well is the only season when Lampard was ordered to do so by Benetiz. Lampard not being good on long passes and timed passes was one of the reasons Chelsea was so good at ruining strikers. Note when Costa came, he had Fabregas who **is** good at these. Beckham type player could do well today, but it requires an RM/LM to remian, well a midfielder… since the late 2000’s guys on the wings have been expected to go forward…that needs to end. \*Plus I think he was scared of him. Carrick was a fantatstic player, but versus Messi he seemed to want to be anywhere but the pitch. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1208 "2018-07-03T17:36:57Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > You forgot possibly the best of all - Paul Scholes. Also, to a lesser extent, Steven Gerrard. I think Beckham’s mainstream popularity has led people to forget just how good he was. Scholes was good at long passes from the center but he was an attacking midfielder and a deep lying forward. Beckhams crosses from the wing were devastating for defences. Plus Beckham was excellent at timing accurate crosses to the feet of the CF on the shoulder of the last defender, his shot was made juuuuust before the CF went forward, nullifying the offside trap. He forced Full Backs to play forward and CB to stay with Strikers. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1209 "2018-07-03T17:38:26Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I think for an elite DM you want the big strapping type, like Alonso or Mekelele. Makelele was only 5’ 6" tall. (And probably still is). ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1210 "2018-07-03T17:50:04Z")
Beckham scored against Colombia the last time these two sides met in the World Cup. I can’t wait for this one. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1211 "2018-07-03T17:56:11Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As for Xavi, _au contraire_. Note that Torres was still scoring for La Roja while struggling at Chelsea. Because he was being fed accurate ball…something Stevie G had done for him at Liverpool and which Lampard refused to do at Chelsea; the one season he played well is the only season when Lampard was ordered to do so by Benetiz. Lampard not being good on long passes and timed passes was one of the reasons Chelsea was so good at ruining strikers. Note when Costa came, he had Fabregas who **is** good at these. > > Beckham type player could do well today, but it requires an RM/LM to remian, well a midfielder… since the late 2000’s guys on the wings have been expected to go forward…that needs to end. Xavi excelled at quick circulating one touch passing, through balls behind the defense, and threading passes into tight areas. A deep bunker like Russia had makes the latter two incredibly difficult which is why I think there would be some issue. The former Spain had, but except for Iniesta they didn’t really look for dangerous passes, just safe ones. Xavi would have helped there (and on any team ever), but I think it still would have been very difficult. I don’t think Beckham would be athletic enough to play todays game. His side of the field would get shredded by pacy wingers. Offensively his skillset is nice and in short supply though. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1212 "2018-07-03T18:01:43Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I like that Germany didn’t fire Low. Continuity is a very underrated condition in football. Had the German Federation sent their young Confederations Cup squad or at least Mane and Sandro Wagner they likely would have been playing today yesterday. The DFB didn’t pick the squad independent of Loew’s input, though, and affinity for veterans who are fast approaching or past their sell-by date has always been his Achilles heel. Exhibit A: Lukas Podolski. And the next World Cup is going to be a huge trial for this. Reus, Ozil, Hummels and Boateng will be 33. Mueller and Kroos will be 32. Neuer will be 36. There are going to be a ton of question marks, and while Loew has been in charge for 12 good years, that span also coincided with the golden years of Schweinsteiger, Lahm, and Klose, and he has yet to demonstrate real success without them. He will have to manage a significant transition. I’m more than willing to give him a chance, but I’m not too confident. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1213 "2018-07-03T18:05:04Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Xavi excelled at quick circulating one touch passing, through balls behind the defense, and threading passes into tight areas. A deep bunker like Russia had makes the latter two incredibly difficult which is why I think there would be some issue. The former Spain had, but except for Iniesta they didn’t really look for dangerous passes, just safe ones. Xavi would have helped there (and on any team ever), but I think it still would have been very difficult. > > I don’t think Beckham would be athletic enough to play todays game. His side of the field would get shredded by pacy wingers. Offensively his skillset is nice and in short supply though. Beckham excelled at set pieces. He would be irreplaceable in today’s game. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1214 "2018-07-03T18:07:36Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > The DFB didn’t pick the squad independent of Loew’s input, though, and affinity for veterans who are fast approaching or past their sell-by date has always been his Achilles heel. Exhibit A: Lukas Podolski. And the next World Cup is going to be a huge trial for this. Reus, Ozil, Hummels and Boateng will be 33. Mueller and Kroos will be 32. Neuer will be 36. There are going to be a ton of question marks, and while Loew has been in charge for 12 good years, that span also coincided with the golden years of Schweinsteiger, Lahm, and Klose, and he has yet to demonstrate real success without them. He will have to manage a significant transition. I’m more than willing to give him a chance, but I’m not too confident. Doesnt the Confederations Cup championship count? He used a young squad. I agree about the veterans. Why Goretzka didn’t start is beyond my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1215 "2018-07-03T18:13:14Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Xavi excelled at quick circulating one touch passing, through balls behind the defense, and threading passes into tight areas. A deep bunker like Russia had makes the latter two incredibly difficult which is why I think there would be some issue. The former Spain had, but except for Iniesta they didn’t really look for dangerous passes, just safe ones. Xavi would have helped there (and on any team ever), but I think it still would have been very difficult. > > I don’t think Beckham would be athletic enough to play todays game. His side of the field would get shredded by pacy wingers. Offensively his skillset is nice and in short supply though. Xavi was good at getting balls through very tightly packed defences like he did in the 2011 CL final. Beckham would be a benchplayer today, a guy you’d bring on to put forth a tactical change. You’d only start him if the other team played wing backs instead of full backs. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1216 "2018-07-03T18:17:33Z")
I have another question, since you were all so helpful with my last ones. What’s with the kids standing with the players during the anthems? Is it some symbolic “future of sport” kind of thing? And where do they find them, does someone cruise near schoolyards in an unmarked van or something? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1217 "2018-07-03T18:19:45Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I have another question, since you were all so helpful with my last ones. > > What’s with the kids standing with the players during the anthems? Is it some symbolic “future of sport” kind of thing? And where do they find them, does someone cruise near schoolyards in an unmarked van or something? Local schoolkids, youth players for the host clubs, people who won competitions, the works. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1218 "2018-07-03T18:20:49Z")
> **[Man City playmaker Kevin De Bruyne similar to David Beckham, says Gary Neville](https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/11028011/man-city-playmaker-kevin-de-bruyne-similar-to-david-beckham-says-gary-neville)** > > Gary Neville has likened Kevin De Bruyne to David Beckham after his influential display in Manchester Citys 5-0 thrashing of 10-man Liverpool. Gary Neville says de Bruyne similar to Beckham. I think that we are discounting the fact that Beckham would benefit from state of the art conditioning and training. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1219 "2018-07-03T18:33:49Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Local schoolkids, youth players for the host clubs, people who won competitions, the works. That doesn’t answer the ‘why’ part. And how long have they been part of the pre-match festivities? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1220 "2018-07-03T18:38:45Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > That doesn’t answer the ‘why’ part. And how long have they been part of the pre-match festivities? About 20 years, I think it started being a regular feature since the mid 1990’s. I think it initially had something to do with UNICEF-FIFA partnership. They are known as mascots, and for the WC they are selected from all over the world by sponsors, in addition to the aforementioned local schoolkids. They don’t always walk out with kids, I remember one mothers day, the teams walked out with their mothers. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615/1221 "2018-07-03T18:41:50Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Local schoolkids, youth players for the host clubs, people who won competitions, the works. Children of local dignitaries and major sponsors, kids from a nearby orphanage - it really runs the whole gamut. I like it - it’s a sweet touch. They’ve been pairing up each player with a kid at big matches for a long time, decades probably. Even in the lower depths of the Scottish leagues there’s a match mascot - one kid who gets to dress in the club kit and go out to the centre circle when the coin toss is happening. These are usually competition winners. Why? Well, future generations of supporters etc, also it’s a good memory for a liitle 'un. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-2018/815615.md?page=62)