# World Cup Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 20, 2006, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485 "2006-06-20T21:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/61 "2006-06-25T21:20:37Z")
Well, I take back my recommendation; that was awful, apart from the opening 15 minutes or so. Shocking refereeing; he gave out 2 yellow cards for every 3 fouls according to the statistics. I think it’s utterly counterproductive being that fussy; it feeds back into the behaviour of the players, and the temperature rises because of all the diving it generates. Bleh. We’ve now had 23 red cards in this tournament, fully six more than in the last one, and it’s not even over yet. Ludicrous. You can’t stamp down on discipline at a World Cup - you need to get the refereeing right at league level. All this does is encourage diving, get the best players sent off or suspended, and generally lower the quality of the whole spectacle. I’ve seen multiple players booked for superb tackles (in one case someone was booked for a “foul” when fully three yards from the player he was supposed to have tripped), and to date _one_ yellow for diving. Still, good for England - looks like Cristiano Ronaldo’s out for the next match, and Deco and Costinha suspended. Don’t think FIFA can take any further action against Figo for the headbutt since he got yellow-carded at the time, but who knows, maybe Graham Poll will come round to his house to give him a red card overnight. At this we might make the semis without ever having to actually play well… ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/62 "2006-06-25T21:45:44Z")
[QUOTE=Dead Badger] Don’t think FIFA can take any further action against Figo for the headbutt since he got yellow-carded at the time, [/QUOTE] According to the [FIFA Disciplinary Code (PDF)](http://www.fifa.com/documents/static/organisation/disciplinary_code_EN.pdf) violence (without injury) is subject to a two match ban and minimum fine of CHF5000. > [@FIFA](#): > > A player who deliberately assaults someone, but without harming > him physically or damaging his health, will be suspended for at least > two matches. An official who commits such an infringement will be > suspended for at least four matches. And when it comes to the FIFA Disciplinary Committee, there’s no double jeopardy. > [@FIFA](#): > > The Disciplinary Committee is responsible for: > a) sanctioning serious infringements which have escaped the match > officials’ attention; > b) **rectifying obvious errors in the referee’s disciplinary decisions;** > c) extending the duration of a match suspension incurred automatically > by an expulsion (cf. art. 18, par. 4 and art. 19, par. 4); > d) **pronouncing additional sanctions to those imposed by the referee, > such as a fine.** Not that I think anything will happen to Figo, just that it technically could. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/63 "2006-06-26T01:25:24Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I’ve attended probably over one hundred soccer games–I know the rules. I am completely uninterested in the more arcane elements of shoot outs and tie breakers. Sorry, I assumed that you were just starting to try to put together the patterns and such. I used to go to every one of my best friend’s team’s youth soccer games, and there were a pretty decent number of parents who never really understood the game all that well. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Oops-forgot. I live near Chicago and we like to go to Fire games upon occasion. I wish I could get English commentated soccer here, but with basic cable, it’s all Spanish. Fox Sports (the regional basic cable one) does tend to run English Premier League games every once in a while, particularly during the day (yeah, I know…me neither). If you have a DVR, though, maybe you can record them. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/64 "2006-06-26T10:48:57Z")
Fox Sports channel is no more. I scrolled past it yesterday, looking for World Cup action and instead found a written notice that says that Fox has pulled it and it is not available on any cable package. I loathe all things Fox, but the English commentary was nice. I need the commentary to watch pro soccer–it is worlds away from rec league for nine year olds… ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/65 "2006-06-26T11:00:32Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] i need the commentary to watch pro soccer–it is worlds away from rec league for nine year olds… [/QUOTE] Match of the Day (both World Cup version and normal League version) is usually available on torrent sites. It’s a pretty good highlights show for English league football, produced by the BBC, so the commentary is usally excellent. The world cup version is by far the best coverage in the UK, the rival coverage on ITV pales in comparison. I’m not sure about whether linking to bittorrent sites is allowed here, but they aren’t too hard to find. [MoTD official website](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/match_of_the_day/default.stm). ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/66 "2006-06-26T11:11:02Z")
If you’re watching games live, you could listen to [Radio Five](http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/index.shtml?logo)’s commentary at the same time. (I don’t think the match commentaries are available on Listen Again, unfortunately.) ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/67 "2006-06-26T11:43:27Z")
Well, FIFA’s interpretation of their rules appears to be as I thought - no action is to be taken againt Figo ([link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/portugal/5116722.stm)). Ho hum. Perhaps you could send them that PDF? Re: commentary (and I’m honestly not just trying to be contrarian here), I actually think the BBC commentary has been shocking throughout. Motson seems content to deal entirely in lousy national stereotypes (endless lederhosen and beer hall references whenever Germany play), and to listen to Lawrenson bang on about how great it was that Paul Robinson was feigning an injury against Ecuador to waste time, well, blech. By contrast I actually quite like ITV’s Clive Tyldesley; he’s pretty sharp and doesn’t seem to indulge in Motson-esque levels of cliche. Studio analysis, however, that’s different - Lineker et al on the Beeb are miles ahead. Martin O’Neill is hilariously irritable, and even Ian Wright’s great. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/68 "2006-06-26T11:48:54Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] If you’re watching games live, you could listen to [Radio Five](http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/index.shtml?logo)’s commentary at the same time. (I don’t think the match commentaries are available on Listen Again, unfortunately.) [/QUOTE] I think this may be a problem since our FCC has required a few seconds delay on most live programs so the youth of America can incure no further irreparable harm from Ms. Jackson’s breasts. As for Fox Sports, you need to find Fox Soccer Channel. I’m sure that’s available in Chicago. If not, then try Setanta (sp?) on satellite. The main problem with Fox, and anyone else who is not ABC or ESPN right now is that they are not even permitted to show replays of crucial events. IMO this hurts the sport more than it helps FIFA stay rich. Just got back from Germany late yesterday, so missed all of yesterday’s matches. Did watch some of what I’d taped from the US v Italy game and started to toss invective at the announcers for being stupid less than a couple of minutes in. I think I’ll watch anything else in Spanish or with the sound off, but I like to hear the crowd noise. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/69 "2006-06-26T11:55:09Z")
[QUOTE=Dead Badger] Well, FIFA’s interpretation of their rules appears to be as I thought - no action is to be taken againt Figo ([link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/portugal/5116722.stm)). Ho hum. Perhaps you could send them that PDF? [/QUOTE] I don’t think ‘additional sanctions’ includes upgrading a yellow to a red, and ‘obvious errors’ doesn’t cover the situation, not if the ref is standing by his actions (which he will do to the hilt) ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/70 "2006-06-26T12:04:43Z")
[QUOTE=Dead Badger] Well, FIFA’s interpretation of their rules appears to be as I thought - no action is to be taken againt Figo ([link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/portugal/5116722.stm)). Ho hum. Perhaps you could send them that PDF? [/QUOTE] I didn’t actually think that anything would happen to Figo, but it does look like the FIFA spokesman doesn’t actually know the disciplinary code. > [@FIFA spokesdroid Siegler](#): > > It is only where there is a clear disciplinary issue, which has not been acted upon by the referee, that the disciplinary committee can look at it. That is blatantly false. > [@Dead Badger](#): > > Studio analysis, however, that’s different - Lineker et al on the Beeb are miles ahead. Martin O’Neill is hilariously irritable, and even Ian Wright’s great. 😃 Whilst we’ll have to agree to disagree on the commentary, I’m in total agreement with you there. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/71 "2006-06-26T12:39:43Z")
The BBC are showing matches live via their website, though this is only available to UK broadband users only (how they tell I don’t know). When the BBC website loads try clicking UK verion at the top, see if that works. They also have highlights of the matches available, so it may be worth checking out the site. There maybe other places on the web where you can get live feeds of football matches. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/72 "2006-06-26T13:20:13Z")
There are various services that allow your IP address to be tied to a geographic location (usually dependent on your ISP, but still accurate in terms of country); the BBC had to ensure this was sufficiently reliable before being allowed to broadcast their football feeds on their website. I don’t think it’ll be easy to circumvent, tbh; perhaps if you were able to find some sort of UK-based proxy server you might be able to get round it, but I don’t know of any such free service. **Szlater** , it looks like FIFA interpret “obvious error” to mean when the official has completely missed something, rather than when they disagree with his assessment of severity. Certainly this is consistent with how they’ve acted in the past - I really can’t ever remember a yellow being upgraded. Think of Michael Essien’s horrible challenge on Didi Hamann in the Champions League last year - despite clear video evidence, the FA were considered powerless to upgrade his yellow. We may think this is at odds with the regulations as written, but they’re certainly being consistent with their interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/73 "2006-06-26T13:40:17Z")
Well, FIFA clearly does think they can impose additional sanctions, above and beyond what the referee did, as DeRossi was carded for _his_ foul, yet suspended for additional games. I don’t see a whole lot of difference between a deliberate head-butt during a stoppage and a deliberate elbow to the face during play. In fact, I think the elbow is easier to justify, since it was at least during real action. Which leads me to observe that FIFA officials are criticizing referees for being too inconsistent in calling fouls, while themselves handing down wildly inconsistent penalties for deliberate violence. In actuality, I’m sure FIFA doesn’t want to do anything because they don’t want to face even more questions about the referee’s decisions in that game. Yup, nothing like sports to build character. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/74 "2006-06-26T14:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=Quercus] Well, FIFA clearly does think they can impose additional sanctions, above and beyond what the referee did, as DeRossi was carded for _his_ foul, yet suspended for additional games. [/quote] Ah, but that’s different; the red card is all that is in the referee’s purview to give, and he did that with DeRossi, carrying an automatic _minimum_ one-match ban. Extended bans are then possible for violent conduct, and that’s what was given; this was not an issue of correcting the referee, but part of the normal procedures with violent conduct. It’s an extension of the referee’s action, rather than a contradiction (as changing Figo’s yellow would be). Similarly, had Figo been given a red, then the normal regs could have left him facing a longer ban than one match. > [@](#): > > I don’t see a whole lot of difference between a deliberate head-butt during a stoppage and a deliberate elbow to the face during play. Oh I agree, although it’s pretty undeniable that the elbow was far more violent than the headbutt; van Bronckhorst certainly took his time before reacting theatrically, while the American player was streaming blood. But yes, the headbutt certainly deserved a straight red, I don’t think that’s in dispute. What I’m saying is that differences of opinion of that sort of level are the sort of thing that FIFA, rightly or wrongly, do not get involved in rectifying. Had the referee taken no action, then Figo would almost certainly be facing a ban now. As it is, I believe FIFA’s motivation is more that second-guessing every refereeing decision (particularly in _that_ match) would end up taking more time and effort than running the World Cup itself. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/75 "2006-06-26T16:25:25Z")
this is a question not related to timing or fouls, but seems like the proper thread to post in: why does the goalie kick a log clearing “pass” do the other end of the field when 9 time sout of 10 the possession changes to the other team? would it not be better to use a short kick to your own defenseman to retain control? the only answer I can think of is that by kicking it long, even though you may lose possession, you cannot give up a goal, whereas a stolen short pass would result in a one-on-one situation. ---
**Author:** ![Manny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dec6dc/32.png) [@Manny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manny)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/76 "2006-06-26T22:00:25Z")
What’s that tune they always play after the final whistle? I know I recognise it from somewhere, and it’s very catchy. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/77 "2006-06-26T22:10:13Z")
Sounds a bit like “Go West” (by the Pet Shop Boys) to me? ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/78 "2006-06-26T22:28:00Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] this is a question not related to timing or fouls, but seems like the proper thread to post in: why does the goalie kick a log clearing “pass” do the other end of the field when 9 time sout of 10 the possession changes to the other team? would it not be better to use a short kick to your own defenseman to retain control? the only answer I can think of is that by kicking it long, even though you may lose possession, you cannot give up a goal, whereas a stolen short pass would result in a one-on-one situation. [/QUOTE] Goalies are not renowned for their kicking ability so it’s often pretty erratic 🙂 Very often their ball distribution is not the best feature of their game. Many times the ball is just hoofed up the pitch in the hope one of his own side will get on the end of it. It’s not deliberate to give it away. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/79 "2006-06-26T22:30:46Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] … why does the goalie kick a log clearing “pass” do the other end of the field when 9 time sout of 10 the possession changes to the other team? would it not be better to use a short kick to your own defenseman to retain control? … [/QUOTE] A perfectly reasonable question. There was a time when the longball—whether by the keeper or by an outfield player—was scorned as a barbarous tactic, and rightly so: it’s far easier to control the ball if it stays on the ground than if it’s bouncing from head to head. When I was learning the game in the '70s, my Peruvian coach would yank a player out of the game if he played a longball in any manner other than to switch fields to an open player who had room to collect the ball and make an unhastened decision. As players have gotten bigger, stronger, and fitter, teams—particularly European teams and even more particularly the English—have taken up the longball tactic. The reasoning is generally that you play the longball to players who are capable of winning the ball themselves. This means players will often simply play a ball into an area and hope for the best. Back in the day, this tactic was generally considered the sign of a technically inferior player/team. I played keeper a lot growing up, and I was never allowed simply to boot a ball upfield and hope for the best. Hell, I wasn’t allowed to play a goal kick that way—the ball was played to a defender just ouside the area, who would then play the ball to a midfielder. I grew up idolizing Alan Hudson, a technically superb center midfielder who would react to a longball by his keeper by subsequently going all the way back to the keeper and demanding the ball himself. Good ol’ Huddy. Although the longball is used more now than in the past, it was always used most by the English, I’d argue. The great Johann Cruyff of Holland once described the English proclivity for the longball hilariously: “I love playing the English. As soon as you lose the ball, they give it right back.” ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485/80 "2006-06-27T00:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=Manny] What’s that tune they always play after the final whistle? I know I recognise it from somewhere, and it’s very catchy. [/QUOTE] It’s called “Stand Up (Champions Theme)” or “Stand Up for the Champions”, by Patrizio Buanne. It’s a special mix for this WC, and contains elements of “Go West”, which was popularized in the UK by the Pet Shop Boys but is originally by the Village People. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-cup-questions/361485.md?page=5)