# World Leaders NOT Born in the Nation They Led **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 11, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278 "2006-06-11T04:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/41 "2015-09-30T14:36:29Z")
James VI of Scotland, Ist of Britain was born in Scotland before the Act of Union. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/42 "2015-09-30T14:50:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What country was he the leader of? 😕 Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/43 "2015-09-30T14:55:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for the US, it would have been possible for a foreign born person to be president in the early days of the republic, but not now. This isn’t true. The Constitution requires that a president be a natural-born citizen, which means a citizen by birth (not naturalized). It doesn’t require that a president actually be born in the U.S. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone to American parents, so he’s an American citizen by birth who is eligible to be president (and could have become president in the 2008 election). Ted Cruz was born in Canada to an American mother, so he’s a natural-born citizen who is eligible to become president (despite what some people like Donald Trump have said). ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/44 "2015-09-30T15:04:53Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > Brezhnev was born in Kamenskoye (now Dniprodzerzhynsk in Ukraine), his ethnicity was specified as Ukrainian in some documents and Russian in others. I don’t see how this counts. Brezhnev was head of the Soviet Union, of which Ukraine was a part. Also, I believe most of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire when Brezhnev was born in 1906. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/45 "2015-09-30T15:34:17Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Any time a new country is created, its first top-dog leader, and probably the first several, will necessarily be born before that county existed. This is where Kemal AtatĂźrk would fit in, right? Born in the Ottoman Empire in what is now Thessaloniki, Greece. AtatĂźrk later became the first president of Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/46 "2015-09-30T15:43:06Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Huh. I was thinking of the 1st Duke of Marlborough. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/47 "2015-09-30T15:48:46Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Chiang Kai-shek, president of Taiwan, was born in Xikou, mainland China. This one is incorrect. Regardless of what one may think of the Chinese Communist Party, Taiwan is a province of China. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/48 "2015-09-30T15:52:29Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > This one is incorrect. Regardless of what one may think of the Chinese Communist Party, Taiwan is a province of China. And the Nationalists never claimed any differently. They claimed to be the legitimate government of all of China, both Taiwan and the mainland, just as the Communists did. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/49 "2015-09-30T15:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Regardless of what one may think of the Chinese Communist Party, Taiwan is a province of China. Not to the Taiwanese, or the 22 states that recognize Taiwan’s independence from the “occupied” mainland. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/50 "2015-09-30T15:53:42Z")
[Hans-Adam II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Adam_II,_Prince_of_Liechtenstein), the current Prince of Liechtenstein, was born in Switzerland, as was his immediate heir the Hereditary Prince Alois, while Alois’s son Joseph Wenzel was born in London. (Actually, I’m not sure ANY of the Liechtensteiner princes have ever been born in the principality.) [Juan Carlos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain), until recently King of Spain, was born in Rome, Italy, in 1938, during the Spanish royal family’s exile. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/51 "2015-09-30T15:55:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You know who else was not born in the nation they led? 😃 > > mentioned int he OP, I know, but I had to get that in… > > As for the US, it would have been possible for a foreign born person to be president in the early days of the republic, but not now. Their wording was delightfully imprecise, but I think the intent was to keep carpetbaggers from England out of the process, and it had the (unintended?) consequence of keeping Alexander Hamilton (born in Nevis, British West Indies) out of the running. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/52 "2015-09-30T15:57:56Z")
According to China, maybe. Taiwan itself disagrees. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/53 "2015-09-30T16:01:12Z")
I think the title of of this thread should be “World Leaders NOT Born in the _Country_ They Led …” Or “Nation-State.” “Nation” really makes it a different question. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/54 "2015-09-30T16:05:47Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Their wording was delightfully imprecise, but I think the intent was to keep carpetbaggers from England out of the process, and it had the (unintended?) consequence of keeping Alexander Hamilton (born in Nevis, British West Indies) out of the running. Alexander Hamilton was “a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/55 "2015-09-30T16:27:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not to the Taiwanese, or the 22 states that recognize Taiwan’s independence from the “occupied” mainland. Not sure what you are talking about, since the current government has renounced the idea of declaring independence and has said that mainland China is still part of the Republic of China. At any rate, any consideration that the Republic of China was not the legitimate government of all of China happened well after the death of Chaing Kai-shek (who we are discussing here) in 1975. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/56 "2015-09-30T16:31:56Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I don’t see how this counts. Brezhnev was head of the Soviet Union, of which Ukraine was a part. Also, I believe most of Ukraine was part of the Russian Empire when Brezhnev was born in 1906. Yes, it’s very tenuous. Brezhnev was born before the USSR, but his parents were from Russia and there isn’t much difference between the peoples/history of Russia and Ukraine. Apparently he didn’t get a passport until 1930 so I expect he’d never needed one. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/57 "2015-09-30T20:26:36Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > This one is incorrect. Regardless of what one may think of the Chinese Communist Party, Taiwan is a province of China. It’s one thing to claim sovereignity over a separate land mass. It’s another thing to issue marching orders for it and have those orders obeyed. The situation between Beijing and Taipei is kind of complicated, but Taiwan prints its own money, conducts its own foreign policy, has its own military, and quarters no soldiers from the mainland. They hold elections on their schedule, not Beijing’s, and the Chinese Communist Party doesn’t have a say in its outcome. It trades ambassadors with the US. If I want to work in mainland China, I have to go to a consulate in San Francisco, but if I want to work in Taiwan, they have a consulate right here in Seattle to process my visa. I have a little bit of first-hand knowledge about this. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/58 "2015-09-30T21:41:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Ted Cruz hopes to join the list. We may have already had a Canadian born President way back in the day, Chester Arthur. But historians are split over it and there is no absolute proof whether he was born in Canada or Vermont, USA. Here is one article:[The original "birther" controversy - CBS News](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-original-birther-controversy/) ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/59 "2015-09-30T21:43:00Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Jomo Kenyatta, Idi Amin (both born in British East Africa, led Kenya and Uganda respectively) and Robert Mugabe (born in Rhodesia, leads Zimbabwe) all meet the letter of this. > > Emperor Baldwin of Constantinople was, IIRC, born in Flanders. Emperor Baldwin of Jerusalem was born in Lorraine. > > Simon Bolivar, born in Caracas Venezuela, presided over Venezuela, Gran Colombia, and Ecuador, the last of which qualifies him for this. > > Catherine the Great of Russia was born in Germany (Prussia). > > Chiang Kai-shek, president of Taiwan, was born in Xikou, mainland China. But Rhodesia to Zimbabwe was just a name change, still same country. Would that not fit with the premise of the OP, set nine years until I revived this zombie? I may be wrong, but a country changing names would not count. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278/60 "2015-09-30T21:54:31Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Jomo Kenyatta, Idi Amin (both born in British East Africa, led Kenya and Uganda respectively) and **Robert Mugabe (born in Rhodesia, leads Zimbabwe)** all meet the letter of this. > > Emperor Baldwin of Constantinople was, IIRC, born in Flanders. Emperor Baldwin of Jerusalem was born in Lorraine. > > Simon Bolivar, born in Caracas Venezuela, presided over Venezuela, Gran Colombia, and Ecuador, the last of which qualifies him for this. > > Catherine the Great of Russia was born in Germany (Prussia). > > Chiang Kai-shek, president of Taiwan, was born in Xikou, mainland China. Given that Mugabe was born in Southern Rhodesia (Northern Rhodesia is now know as the Zambia) and Southern Rhodesia is the same piece of land as Zimbabwe does he really fit the thread? Are Southern Rhodesia and Zimbabwe not the same country except with independence and a name change? Edited to add: I swear that Nema98s post wasnt there when i started writing my post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-leaders-not-born-in-the-nation-they-led/360278.md?page=4)