# World More Dangerous for Kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 29, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108 "2015-05-29T12:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/21 "2015-05-30T03:51:49Z")
I do wonder though if some of the crime rate drop can be attributed to parents not letting their kids have any unsupervised time. Much harder to kidnap a kid if his mom is never 5 feet away. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/22 "2015-05-30T04:01:00Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Kids died of communicable diseases and injuries \*all the time \*in the past. Seven times as much in 1935 as today: > > [http://www.hrsa.gov/healthit/images/mchb\_child\_mortality\_pub.pdf](http://www.hrsa.gov/healthit/images/mchb_child_mortality_pub.pdf) Page 2 shows a continuous decline in the 1-4 and 5-14 death rate since 1935. Page 6 shows New York state and California having below average death rates among the 5-14 set: the most dangerous states tend to be rural. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/23 "2015-05-30T07:44:58Z")
I have one kid. My and my wife were each one of four. Half of my grandparents were families of 10. I’m sure the parents cared as much, but they had more invested in other kids. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/24 "2015-05-30T13:54:42Z")
Thomas L. Dyja wrote a fascinating history of post-war Chicago, [The Third Coast: When Chicago Built the American Dream](http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Coast-Chicago-American/dp/0143125095). In it, he quietly mentioned a continual stream of child murders, mostly as asides. He didn’t examine them or emphasize them, but it was obvious that he included them precisely to rebut the current delusion that kids could roam the streets completely safely in the old days. Nor were they hidden or hushed up, since he got all of them from newspaper headlines. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/25 "2015-05-30T14:30:34Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > …the most dangerous states tend to be rural. Probably because the “kids is tougher than them city pansies think they is” mentality persists. I seem to never stop reading about kids - often little kids - getting horribly injured or killed because parents are letting them do, or help, with extremely hazardous tasks. A 4yo lost his hand last week because he fell off the riding mower he was riding along on. There have been several such completely avoidable accidents, involving power equipment and small children and parents too fucking stupid to keep the two at safe distance. I don’t mean getting hit by a thrown rock; I mean kid+blade=“I never thought that would happen… I was _watching_ him!” And then, last fall, a good rural dad was letting his 3-4yo help feed brush into a commercial-size wood chipper. It still gives me nightmares to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/26 "2015-05-30T14:35:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Thomas L. Dyja wrote a fascinating history of post-war Chicago, [The Third Coast: When Chicago Built the American Dream](http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Coast-Chicago-American/dp/0143125095). > > In it, he quietly mentioned a continual stream of child murders, mostly as asides. He didn’t examine them or emphasize them, but it was obvious that he included them precisely to rebut the current delusion that kids could roam the streets completely safely in the old days. Nor were they hidden or hushed up, since he got all of them from newspaper headlines. But were they reported OUTSIDE the city? Probably only the most sensational ones. That’s one of the biggest differences between now and then–the nature of news reporting is so different. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/27 "2015-05-30T14:37:37Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > I do wonder though if some of the crime rate drop can be attributed to parents not letting their kids have any unsupervised time. Much harder to kidnap a kid if his mom is never 5 feet away. It’s theoretically possible, but unlikely to be much of a factor–that doesn’t explain the drop in other categories of crime. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/28 "2015-05-30T16:12:52Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > It’s theoretically possible, but unlikely to be much of a factor–that doesn’t explain the drop in other categories of crime. If Mom or Dad are always around things like vandalism and theft from parked cars should go down too. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/29 "2015-05-30T16:44:24Z")
The reason for this perception is simple and obvious. Over time, the market for mass media has become more competitive and driven by metrics. What does this mean? Well, in 1960 or 1970, when there were 3 TV networks and a couple newspapers, those establishments could do a pretty ok job of reporting the news and stay in business. Nothing crazy, they didn’t have to try to slam the viewers with news articles designed to suck in their attention over and over. Well, there’s orders of magnitudes more news sources now. More channels, more news networks, the internet, etc. They all compete for viewers. So, now the news companies need to mainly fill their broadcast hours and articles with “clickbait, or viewer bait”. Turns out, articles about little kids being killed or raped are far more enticing to viewers than other articles. Most actual rapes are probably of adult women. Most actual murders are probably of rival drug dealers and escalations of poorly thought out conflicts. But nobody wants to hear about those. We want to hear about that respectable politician who might have done something lewd with a kid 50 years ago, not the probably thousands of adult women who were probably raped this month. We want to hear about the kid who shot up an elementary school or the other guy who shot up a movie theater, not the hundreds of garden variety homicides and hundreds of thousands of car accidents that are a far greater risk to us. So these articles are now most of the media content. Mass shootings have gotten a little bit more common, but the probability of getting shot this way versus pissing off your neighbor/boss/coworker/another driver and getting shot in a homicide are a lot lower. If one of your kids gets raped, it’s probably going to be one of your adult daughters after they leave home and it will probably be a “date rape”, not by a stranger. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/30 "2015-05-30T19:35:43Z")
Which is why this debate should be assisted by crime stats, not impressions of media coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/31 "2015-05-30T21:22:12Z")
It remains the case that “crime”, at least reported crime, has never been a significant contributor to childhood injury/death. We all know that unreported abuse in the home probably _is_ a significant factor, but that’s not included in these studies, and it doesn’t change the point that “strangers” intentionally harming children simply was never common in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/32 "2015-05-30T23:02:43Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Kids died of communicable diseases and injuries \*all the time \*in the past. Seven times as much in 1935 as today: > > [http://www.hrsa.gov/healthit/images/mchb\_child\_mortality\_pub.pdf](http://www.hrsa.gov/healthit/images/mchb_child_mortality_pub.pdf) > > The rose-colored view of the past is biased by the fact that you’ve spent most of your life not dying. Yes to this. My maternal grandmother was one of six children, only three of which lived to see their eighteenth birthday. The other three died of disease, diptheria, whooping cough, and the third from side effects from when my great grandmother had German measles while carrying him. Oddly enough, that boy was a twin, looked healthy, and dies the day after he was born while his runty twin lived to a great age as my great uncle George. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/33 "2015-05-30T23:11:45Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > If Mom or Dad are always around things like vandalism and theft from parked cars should go down too. Not to mention the latchkey mentality of the era which had bored kids forming gangs. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/34 "2015-05-31T11:43:00Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I had a similar experience, a generation later. I was born in Manhattan in 1967. Many of my playmates were cousins, and many of the rest were kids who lived in my building, whose parents were known to my parents. We hung out in packs, and wandered the streets, going to parks, to public pools, the museums, the movies; we played stoop ball, or kickball in an empty lot; and we took the bus or the subway, or sometimes rode bicycles along the wide sidewalks. Often the very youngest kids were only five or six, but the oldest might be 12 or 13, and no one really worried. Everyone had a dime they were instructed not to spend on anything but a phone call, and a few kids (whose parents were considered overprotective) had cab fare. As soon as you could tell time in the first grade, you got a watch as a gift for your next birthday or holiday; it was a big deal, and made you feel very grown up, but it also meant that you were responsible for being home by a particular time (or calling if you couldn’t make it for some reason). I didn’t get punished if I called, but being a no-call no-show meant a serious punishment, not so much because my parents were worried, but because it demonstrated a lack of responsibility. > > . Can I ask, did you ever hear of a case where older children would hurt the younger ones? There were bullies back then to. To me that is the big thing. I dont think there are many grown ups who would hurt a child but I’ve seen some pretty nasty children. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/35 "2015-05-31T14:32:49Z")
Ironically, the safer society is, the more risk-averse people become. Life in developed countries has never been safer than it is today, despite sensation-mongering in the media. But aversion to risk, not only as far as children are concerned, has never been more paranoid. Strangely enough, in countries where the risks of everyday life are far higher, people worry far less about it. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/36 "2015-05-31T16:24:53Z")
I think that children and young adults are more willing to speak about being a victim of a crime. A recent report states that 1 in 4 women are sexual assaulting while attend college. Not so, 1 in 4 women are willing to _say_ they were a victim of sexual assault while attending college. Even today, we as a society blame the 16-year-old girl and condemn her when she seeks an abortion, without even considering the 28-year-old man who fathered the child. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/37 "2015-05-31T22:07:43Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Even today, we as a society blame the 16-year-old girl and condemn her when she seeks an abortion, without even considering the 28-year-old man who fathered the child. Worse, we (as you clearly know) assume teen pregnancies are to teen parents. A truly shocking percentage are to fathers well past teen years, which is an entirely different problem from the one all the “just say no, kids” programs are addressing. It’s not the boyfriend. It’s the mom’s boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/38 "2015-05-31T22:16:00Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > But were they reported OUTSIDE the city? Probably only the most sensational ones. > > That’s one of the biggest differences between now and then–the nature of news reporting is so different. True, local child murders were seldom publicized nationally - but each city would have its own to headline. > [@Habeed](#): > > The reason for this perception is simple and obvious. Over time, the market for mass media has become more competitive and driven by metrics. > > What does this mean? Well, in 1960 or 1970, when there were 3 TV networks and a couple newspapers, those establishments could do a pretty ok job of reporting the news and stay in business. Nothing crazy, they didn’t have to try to slam the viewers with news articles designed to suck in their attention over and over. > > Well, there’s orders of magnitudes more news sources now. This is also true, but irrelevant if the onset of helicopter parenting was before the orders of magnitude media rise occurred, which by all evidence it was. The term was coined in 1969. It didn’t get media traction until the 2000s, but the behavior was certainly around long before that. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/39 "2015-05-31T22:28:20Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s not the boyfriend. It’s the mom’s boyfriend. With the mom’s permission … ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108/40 "2015-06-01T04:19:12Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Ironically, the safer society is, the more risk-averse people become. > > Life in developed countries has never been safer than it is today, despite sensation-mongering in the media. But aversion to risk, not only as far as children are concerned, has never been more paranoid. > > Strangely enough, in countries where the risks of everyday life are far higher, people worry far less about it. I see this on kids playgrounds. True, they look cool with say pirate ship themes but the actual climbing areas grow boring after kids hit age 5 and they go looking for more challenging and dangerous areas like climbing on the outside of equipment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-more-dangerous-for-kids/721108.md?page=3)