# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 117
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2321 "2009-06-23T17:39:38Z")
Oops, I was quoting **Shot From Guns** in my previous post, not **Redwing**. Not sure what happened there … ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2322 "2009-06-23T17:41:31Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I’d point out that the mammoth can carry two passengers, and has vendors, and is cheaper to buy than the bike is to make. 😃 Doesn’t Engineering also let you make a multipassenger helicopter? I don’t know if they carry vendors. But your point is well made, the mammoth is probably better value than the choppa. > [@](#): > > Yeah, and you had that problem with \*your \*DKP system, not \*my \*loot council. If you look back at what I wrote, I said that we \*generally \*prioritize healers and tanks over DPS (not that we always do), and that we \*also \*factor in how much loot someone’s gotten recently. Does everyone in your guild know each other? How do you make new people comfortable with your system? > [@](#): > > Our rules could be loosely phrased as, “Whoever will get the most benefit from the upgrade to help the raid as a whole progress, while also rewarding skill and good effort.” I understand the concept, I just haven’t seen that system work very well because it requires quite a bit of trust among the rank and file. I have just found that DKP systems make it easier for people to join guilds because they know what they are getting into. You end up with a bit more inefficiency with a robust DKP system because casters might bid on healing gear and melee may bid on tank gear (the lines are not always so crisply drawn) but you make up for the slower progression with significantly less whining. If your system works well for your guild then more power to you, I just haven’t seen it work very well as guilds get larger, it is especially tough for progression guilds because of the turnover. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2323 "2009-06-23T18:30:36Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Okay Blizzard, you have _got_ to be kidding me. After my nelf druid died for the fifth time attempting to do that “The Tower of Althalaxx” quest in Ashenvale, I gave up and let the spirit healer at the Shrine of Aessina rez me. And what do you know, there’s a freakin’ wolf and a giant spider _right there in the freakin’ graveyard that aggro’d on me the instant I rezzed_! Gaaaaaaaaaaaah! And of course, thanks to the way Blizz doesn’t want people using their ghost to scout ahead, there was no way to know those things were there _before_ I rezzed. They should allow youn to “see” anywhere near a gravestone. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2324 "2009-06-23T18:53:18Z")
Just a quick FYI: When they did the server restarts yesterday, it reset all the Flame Warden/Keeper and Extinguish quests, and the fires. So if you’ve already finished them all, you have ANOTHER opportunity to earn blossoms and gold! Considering that I think I made around 800g just honoring and extinguishing, and I didn’t even do Northrend yet, I’m-a peein’ on some more Horde fires starting tonight… (Note that this doesn’t affect your achievements if you already finished all the Old World/Outland fires…you should still have the Flame Warden/Keeper and Extinguish achievements done. This also explains my getting the crown again.) (PPS: Unfortunately, if you were doing the fires but hadn’t finished Eastern/Kalimdor/Outland…you’ve been reset. You’ll have to start them all over again.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2325 "2009-06-23T18:56:34Z")
PPPS: (Yeah, I know…) This was an effect of the hotfix for the bug where people who did the fires last year couldn’t do them this year, so it wasn’t some kind of random do-over just to piss people off. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Redwing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@Redwing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redwing)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2326 "2009-06-23T19:03:31Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Since when are there three Undead mounts available to the Alliance? The only one I know of is the drop off of Rivendare in Strat. Headless Horseman, and Attunemen. Class mounts aren’t racial mounts, which is what I’m looking at. Any way you slice it though, there are more horde style mounts from drops than alliance. Mimiron really should drop a mechano-strider skinned land mount. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Doesn’t Engineering also let you make a multipassenger helicopter? I don’t know if they carry vendors. But your point is well made, the mammoth is probably better value than the choppa. Both version of the Engineering flying mounts are single person only. So are both version of flying carpet, which, all things considered probably should have a passenger version. > [@](#): > > I understand the concept, I just haven’t seen that system work very well because it requires quite a bit of trust among the rank and file. I have just found that DKP systems make it easier for people to join guilds because they know what they are getting into. You end up with a bit more inefficiency with a robust DKP system because casters might bid on healing gear and melee may bid on tank gear (the lines are not always so crisply drawn) but you make up for the slower progression with significantly less whining. If your system works well for your guild then more power to you, I just haven’t seen it work very well as guilds get larger, it is especially tough for progression guilds because of the turnover. Loot council is better for progression, as it puts items whereever they do the most good. But it requires the loot council to know every piece of gear that everyone in the raid has, and to be able to figure out, relatively quickly, where it will do the most good. And, of course, the council has to want progression more than anything else. The wear and tear on the leadership to every person and every class, as well as have to listen to progression raider egos whine about marginal upgrades, seems to off-set the benefits to any guild who isn’t a 6 raid days a week world top 100 type guild. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2327 "2009-06-23T19:17:06Z")
My bad, guys! The Flame achievements did NOT reset. Just the fires. Your progress on the achievements should be unchanged. Sorry for the misfire…I’m getting this information from the WoW LJ community. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2328 "2009-06-23T19:32:21Z")
Oddly enough, I was expecting the check marks in my Kalimdor and Extinguishing Whoever achieves to Go Away ™. They didn’t, but I can now redo the whole ball of wax for EVEN MOAR money and XP, as per \*\*jayjay \*\*and many other people. I’ll have to try running some alts around, too. Also, I finally took the step of throwing out xperl in favor of ouF\_Lyn on my hunter all in the interests of minimalizing my UI. :eek: Let’s just say that I’m spending a lot of those long flight paths on the fire festival digging into the .lua file. 😃 Still haven’t figured out how to get some of the data to display (such as pvp flag, my level, or buffs), although I figured out the name bit. For now, I’m trying out Elkano’s BuffBars with them filtered into “GOOD SHIT” and “BAD SHIT” – there was a screenie of a completely fail UI floating around that had those names, so a bunch of us adopted that for the sheer lulz. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2329 "2009-06-23T20:04:42Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > The Death Knight mount? (And the Warlock one, maybe? Haven’t looked at it too closely.) Not exactly available to everyone, but… The warlock mount looks like a nightmare. flaming hooves and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2330 "2009-06-23T20:16:02Z")
> [@Redwing](#): > > Loot council is better for progression, as it puts items whereever they do the most good. But it requires the loot council to know every piece of gear that everyone in the raid has, and to be able to figure out, relatively quickly, where it will do the most good. And, of course, the council has to want progression more than anything else. The wear and tear on the leadership to every person and every class, as well as have to listen to progression raider egos whine about marginal upgrades, seems to off-set the benefits to any guild who isn’t a 6 raid days a week world top 100 type guild. I guess it might work in a hard core guild. My experience has always been with second tier guilds who are raiding twice a week and getting strats fed to them by friends in first tier guilds. You get a lot of turnover in those types of guilds and everyone wants to make sure that they aren’t getting screwed by the leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2331 "2009-06-23T20:41:17Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > The Death Knight mount? (And the Warlock one, maybe? Haven’t looked at it too closely.) Not exactly available to everyone, but… > [@winterhawk11](#): > > Not the Warlock one, but if the Death Knight ground mount and flyer count as two, then that’s three. Plus if you’re REALLY good at PvP, you could have gotten the Frostwyrm mount (that thing is gorgeous–there are only two of them on our server and one was owed by a guildie of mine who subsequently quit the game and sold his account–such as waste!) 1.) The DK and Warlock horses are more like Demon horses than Undead ones–they’re nothing like the models for the Undead racial ones. 2.) There are no \*racial \*flyers, just \*faction \*ones, and there is no Horde faction mount that looks anything like a DK flyer or a Frostwyrm. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > You can see the ones near your corpse because you already saw them while you were still alive. But the game doesn’t let you see mobs while you’re in ghost/wisp form that you haven’t already seen while you were alive. Are you sure about this? I always thought that it had to do with what was in a given radius of your corpse–NOT what you’d already “seen.” I think my explanation makes more sense than yours–they \*want \*you to be able to make an informed decision as to where/when to rez. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Does everyone in your guild know each other? How do you make new people comfortable with your system? We’ve probably got about 100 accounts in the guild, with maybe 25-40 raiders. Anyone who wants to come raid with us knows the loot rules ahead of time. > [@](#): > > I understand the concept, I just haven’t seen that system work very well because it requires quite a bit of trust among the rank and file. Yeah, you need a pretty anti-drama guild to make it happen. Fortunately, we’ve got a very low tolerance for that kind of crap, and most of the drama queens have changed guilds or cleaned up their acts. > [@Redwing](#): > > Headless Horseman, and Attunemen. These two models are similar _to each other_ but \*not \*to the Undead racial mount. “A horse that is vaguely demon-y” is the \*not \*same thing as Horde mount. > [@Redwing](#): > > Loot council is better for progression, as it puts items whereever they do the most good. But it requires the loot council to know every piece of gear that everyone in the raid has, and to be able to figure out, relatively quickly, where it will do the most good. And, of course, the council has to want progression more than anything else. The wear and tear on the leadership to every person and every class, as well as have to listen to progression raider egos whine about marginal upgrades, seems to off-set the benefits to any guild who isn’t a 6 raid days a week world top 100 type guild. 1.) We don’t have to know every piece of gear everyone in the raid has–as I’ve already mentioned, when we’re awarding an item, everyone who is interested _links their current item_. We can then do a quick comparison and vote (often with comments) on who we think deserves the item. 2.) I’m not sure where “the council has to want progression more than anything else” is coming from… Is there something people want other than progression? Do we want to start wiping on content we put on farm a month ago? Or are you saying progression versus handing the items to whoever kissed our asses the most this week? 3.) Our guild doesn’t allow drama, and this includes loot. People seldom whine about upgrades they didn’t get–when they do, the issue is addressed if it’s legitimate, or they get talked to about the whining if it’s not. Everybody can see who else is interested in an item, everybody can see what item everyone else wants to upgrade from, and everybody can see who the item gets looted to. 4.) We are by no means a “6 raid days a week world top 100 type guild.” Our raiders are what I’d probably call “medium-core,” though we are ranked very high on our server in terms of progression, simply because it’s such a new server. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You get a lot of turnover in those types of guilds and everyone wants to make sure that they aren’t getting screwed by the leadership. Yes, that would definitely be a situation where a loot council wouldn’t work well. \*If \*you’ve got a trustworthy and knowledgable loot council, and \*if \*you’ve got a dedicated, drama-free raiding core, then loot council is going to beat any DKP system, hands-down. And we’re lucky enough to have that in my guild. But it doesn’t have anything to do with being “hardcore” or not. (Believe me, if we were a hardcore raiding guild, there are people I’d love to boot for constantly showing up without having a fucking clue what’s going on.) ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2332 "2009-06-23T21:31:08Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > You can see the ones near your corpse because you already saw them while you were still alive. But the game doesn’t let you see mobs while you’re in ghost/wisp form that you haven’t already seen while you were alive. Are you sure about that, **Rik**? My understanding is that you can see any mobs within a certain radius of your corpse, and the logic is that you need to know where the bad guys are to find a safe place to res. I don’t have any citations to back that, but personal experience shows that if I die on one side of a wall, my ghost will be able to see mobs on the other side of the wall if I go around it – even though I never looked there before dying. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2333 "2009-06-23T21:37:39Z")
Okay, we have to test this. I vote that someone dies, runs back to their corpse but doesn’t rez, and then has a friend train some mob straight past them. If they can see the friend and the mob, then it’s radius based and doesn’t have anything to do with what you could see at your time of death. I’m quite sure it’s radius-based, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2334 "2009-06-23T21:42:51Z")
Y’all are misunderstanding **Rik** ’s problem, AFAICT. He didn’t run back to his corpse - he rezzed at the spirit healer. There happened to be mobs in the graveyard that he couldn’t see (because his corpse wasn’t there). These mobs pwned him, so he got to rez again. You can always see any mobs that are near your corpse when you are a ghost, even if you didn’t see these mobs before you died. But, AFAIK, you can’t see things anywhere else, including at the graveyard where you are asking the spirit healer to rez you. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2335 "2009-06-23T21:52:50Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Y’all are misunderstanding **Rik** ’s problem, AFAICT. He didn’t run back to his corpse - he rezzed at the spirit healer. There happened to be mobs in the graveyard that he couldn’t see (because his corpse wasn’t there). These mobs pwned him, so he got to rez again. > > You can always see any mobs that are near your corpse when you are a ghost, even if you didn’t see these mobs before you died. But, AFAIK, you can’t see things anywhere else, including at the graveyard where you are asking the spirit healer to rez you. I’m understanding his _problem_ just fine. And it is, indeed, a problem. But my comments a few posts ago directly address the part of his post that I quoted. He said directly and specifically that you could only see mobs near your corpse _if you had already seen them before you died_. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2336 "2009-06-23T22:02:14Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I’m understanding his _problem_ just fine. And it is, indeed, a problem. But my comments a few posts ago directly address the part of his post that I quoted. He said directly and specifically that you could only see mobs near your corpse _if you had already seen them before you died_. I disagree. Ah, OK. In my experience you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2337 "2009-06-24T04:22:59Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > I’m understanding his _problem_ just fine. And it is, indeed, a problem. But my comments a few posts ago directly address the part of his post that I quoted. He said directly and specifically that you could only see mobs near your corpse _if you had already seen them before you died_. I disagree. I’ll accept the consensus that it’s a corpse-radius thing. I was basing my theory on the way I normally don’t see _any_ mobs while I’m rabbiting back to my corpse, other than those in the immediate vicinity of my corpse. I’m almost certain that on a few occasions my corpse run has taken me through areas I had recently been in and I was able to see all the mobs there, even when I still had some distance to go to reach my corpse. I’ll concede that I could simply be misremembering. For those who didn’t follow the link to my Blizz bug report post, here’s the screenshot of the mobs in the graveyard: [http://www.mister-rik.com/hosted/aessina\_graveyard.jpg](http://www.mister-rik.com/hosted/aessina_graveyard.jpg) I took that shot after they had killed me and I had let the “6 minutes until release” timer expire. Then I had to wait around a bit until both mobs made their way into the graveyard at the same time again. The wolf’s wandering path brings him into the GY way more often than the spider - he mostly just walks a line from the center of the GY to a spot about ten feet outside of it and back again. The spider’s route is longer and more circuitous. But I was just “lucky” enough to rez just as both of them arrived. You can see my corpse over in that dark patch of ground to the right, where I tried to make a run for it as soon as I spotted the spider (I was already engaged with the wolf when the spider attacked and I knew I couldn’t take both of them). The quest I was doing, “The Tower of Althalaxx” is, interestingly, the same quest that brought my first attempt at a druid to a screeching halt. I’d kind of hoped that the fact I now have much more experience with the game than I did then would make the quest easier, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. This is the quest where you have to obtain a special gem or something from the mobs just to the north of Maestra’s Post. The difficulty in doing the quest as a druid is that all of the mobs around the perimeter are warlocks with voidwalker or imp minions. I’ve tried every variation in attack plan I can think of, without success. Regardless of which of the pair I immobilize with Entangling Roots, the fact is the warlock can continue blast me with shadowbolts until she’s dead, whether she’s entangled or not. She has enough time to hit me with enough bolts to drop me below 1/2 of my HP, and I still have to deal with the minion. I’ve tried taking one down with spells and the switching to bear or cat form to take on the other, and that doesn’t work either. You can’t attack one without aggroing the other. And if I did manage to survive the pair, it was at the cost of completely depleting my mana. I had 20 bottles of Moon Juice when I started; I was down to 4 when I finally gave up. So I tried a different approach: switch to cat form and stealth past all the warlocks and attack one of the melee mobs, which are all in the middle of the area. I was able to attack one of them without drawing aggro from the others … at least until that one turned and fled. The others are close enough that he didn’t have to run far at all, and next thing I know I’ve got five of them all over me. By contrast, my paladin did the same quest when she was the same level, and was able to just wade in there and kill things until the one of them dropped the quest item. Which is one of the reasons I get so frustrated trying to play casters - I hate being so effing helpless when confronted with more than one mob at a time. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2338 "2009-06-24T04:27:45Z")
Take the imps out first. They’re weak and can’t stand up to more than about 2 or 3 hits. Then you’re free to concentrate on the warlock. With the walkers, you want to take the caster out first. The walker is tougher than the imp, but it doesn’t really do a WHOLE lot of damage. The caster’s shadowbolts are worse than the walker’s hits. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2339 "2009-06-24T05:16:39Z")
Okay, I feel pretty cheesy now. I flew into Lakeshire with my lvl 80 human pally, and spotted a yellow name over near the bonfire, and saw some Horde toon fighting with a town guard. I clicked to see his level - it was a lvl 59 belf DK. I thought I’d just sit back and watch, but because I had him selected, as soon as his HP dropped to 20% the words "\ flashed on my screen. And purely out of reflex I hit my hotkey for HoW, and down he went. Poor sap probably never knew what hit him 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/2340 "2009-06-24T05:57:28Z")
So I finally did my first instance PUG. I decided I wanted to do the two Orgrimmar quests that lead into Ragefire Chasm (there’s a few Thunder bluff quests I didn’t bother with), so I hung out until I saw someone asking for a group. I was level 13, and the other two in the group so far were 11 and 12. And I was expected to tank. Yeah, that wasn’t going to go well. The level 23 Paladin who showed up saved our butts. Amazingly, it went well. The group was going to break up after killing Taragaman, since that was the only quest we all had, but I still had a quest to kill Jergosh and Bazzalan, and the group stayed on to help me finish it despite taking nearly as long to kill them as it did to kill Taragaman. It _nearly_ fell apart when one of the Priests and the Paladin started arguing over whether Retribution could tank. I made a few halfhearted comments about how Ret can tank when overleveled but can’t at level, but otherwise I was just mentally shouting at the Priest “Shut up or he’ll take his Consecration and go home!” The Pally was a good sport, though, and we finished up the instance with everyone getting what they wanted. One side WTF: the only piece of loot I rolled on was the [Cursed Felblade](http://www.wowwiki.com/Cursed_Felblade), which would have been awesome for me. The Pally and I both rolled Need and he won. I made a goodnatured grumble about it, and he goes “Sorry, I need it to dual wield.” I just…couldn’t bring myself to ask him why he thought a Pally could dual wield. (Hint: they can’t.) Still, I got some decent quest rewards and a good bit of XP, so it went well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=116) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=118)