# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 176
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3501 "2009-07-31T17:21:26Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Aha, of course. That makes sense, especially for Outland. It seemed really odd that I could hit 70 in Nagrand and not need to bother with Blade’s Edge, Netherstorm, and Shadowmoon. > > I really can’t wait for patch 3.2. My Paladin, who’s on hold until my partner wants to play again, is currently 67; I think we’re gonna stay in Outland until 72 to get a head start on Northrend, and cheap flying mounts will make that really easy. > > ETA: Yeah, 10 hours a level sounds about right. You can always go back to Outland (Netherstorm, Shadowmoon Valley) and do some quests there, too. Pick up an extra level doing that. I did that with my Mage. I was having trouble with the mobs at 70. Went back to Outland, got to the upper 72ish, came back to Howling Fjord. It _feels_ like a big difference, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3502 "2009-07-31T18:06:39Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > The phrase you’re looking for is “alpha geek.” > > I did manage to find the “sweet spot” where I could reach everyone, and I don’t think it would even be _possible_ to do that quest without the nameplates up. I did the same thing you did with the bandages on the action bar and a key mapped to it. It still took me two tries. > > I hear about how quick it is, too, but my priest is putting in about ten hours of play time per level. It took my priest a very long time, seemingly, to go from 70 to 80. Of course I was levelling Holy, which slowed me down. I didn’t realize how slow it was until I hit Northrend with my rogue, who has gone 68-71 in Howling Fjord very quickly. But the BoA shoulders give her +10% xp and the two BoA swords let her absolutely _plow_ through mobs. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3503 "2009-07-31T18:09:32Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > But the BoA shoulders give her +10% xp and the two BoA swords let her absolutely _plow_ through mobs. This is why I’m pushing to 80 with my Hunter. I’d actually rather play my lowbies right now while I’m waiting for my partner, but I would love to have at least one heirloom to play with. I’ve got too many characters between 10 and 20, heirloom shoulders would help a good deal with that. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3504 "2009-07-31T19:08:54Z")
I don’t play anymore, I havent’ since 2005, but I just read a thread in the Pit (the shoes thread) where someone made a suggestion that a wife snag hubbies account and take it into Ironforge and say “I like Dicks! Dicks Dicks Dicks!” and his account would be swiftly banned. For saying I like dicks you can get banned? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3505 "2009-07-31T19:14:32Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t play anymore, I havent’ since 2005, but I just read a thread in the Pit (the shoes thread) where someone made a suggestion that a wife snag hubbies account and take it into Ironforge and say “I like Dicks! Dicks Dicks Dicks!” and his account would be swiftly banned. > > For saying I like dicks you can get banned? For broadcasting it (“yelling” or even just “saying”) you can definitely garner a visit from a GM, which is likely to lead to banning, depending on what you say. The game is family-friendly (just ignore the leather-bustier-clad succubus with the whip, please) and using bad language publicly is a violation of the TOS. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3506 "2009-07-31T19:17:48Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t play anymore, I havent’ since 2005, but I just read a thread in the Pit (the shoes thread) where someone made a suggestion that a wife snag hubbies account and take it into Ironforge and say “I like Dicks! Dicks Dicks Dicks!” and his account would be swiftly banned. > > For saying I like dicks you can get banned? Maybe, or (more likely) at least given a timeout. Blizzard expects a certain level of family-friendliness to the chat, even though they have a swear word filter that is on by default (can be turned off). I expect that if you got more creative and vulgar with the description of enjoyed activities (especially if it appears that you’re attempting to circumvent the swear filter via word choice or use of creative misspelling/l33t/txt spk) and kept it up for a while, you might find worse than a timeout had come down from the GMs. Hijack: At game launch - or maybe it was during beta testing, I don’t recall - another MMORPG (Dark Age of Camelot) had a similar swear filter, except I’m not sure it could be turned off. The problem was, there was a sword style called a “bastard sword”, and “bastard” was in the swear filter. So if someone was shouting out for a blacksmith to make him a “\*\*\*\*\*\*\* sword,” you couldn’t tell if he was frustrated at his inability to buy a “sword” and got potty-mouthed, or if he was asking for a “bastard sword”. 😃 (Edit: They removed the word from the filter after this was pointed out.) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3507 "2009-07-31T20:08:34Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > All righty, thanks. I’ll have to dust off my hunter, and see what other changes occured. Probably the biggest one is with pets. Some changes off the top of my head… \*\*(1) \*\*No more loyalty levels. Feeding now only affects pet DPS. \*\*(2) \*\*All trainable abilities are automatically learned as the pet levels. No more visiting the pet trainer; no more taming pets to learn new skills. \*\*(3) \*\*Pets have their own talent trees that differ by classification (Tenacity is the tanking kind, then there’s a DPS kind and a tank/DPS hybrid–I forget the names off the top of my head). They gain points for you to allocate as you see fit at every 4 levels, starting at 20. (One total point at 20, add another at 24, add another at 28, and so forth, until you have a total of 16 points for the pet at max level.) \*\*(4) \*\*All three pet types have the same starting stats. \*\*(5) \*\*Each species (Cat, Wolf, Spider, Bear, etc.) has a special ability, but individual pets within a species are normalized (there are no rares with special abilities, faster attack speeds, etc.) \*\*(6) \*\*Any pet not less than five levels behind you will auto-level to that point when you tame it or take it out of the stable. E.g., if a level 40 Hunter tames a level 18 pet, the pet will jump to level 35 when the taming finishes. The rate at which your pet gains XP has also been increased (though pets are still capped at their Hunter’s level, and will stop gaining XP when they match it until the Hunter dings again). > [@Bosstone](#): > > For low-level mages, the advice I’ve found to be helpful: Don’t get fancy. Just spam Firebolt, Frostbolt, or Arcane Missiles, whichever one you’re talenting into. I’m going Frost, and it’s amazing how effective the Frostbolt is once you’ve got Improved Frostbolt and Frostbite talented. Other spells can be used situationally, but spamming one spell is the most DPS and mana efficient. [snip] Try to overlevel your quests. 1.) Frost is going to be the best leveling spec for most people, because it gives you the most control. If you spec into Frost, ideally the mob will never touch you, or get one hit in at the most. A typical low-level encounter will look something like this: spam Frostbolt starting at max range, which will both damage and slow the target; Frost Nova when it gets close to melee range and use that instant-cast Fire spell (Fire Blast?) as you back out of range; and finish the mob off with another Frostbolt or three. 2.) I never had to over-level quests on my Mage. If you’re playing right, they can easily take on multiple enemies even at fairly low levels. You just need to make sure you’re using all the tools at your disposal. (E.g., on a multi-mob pull, don’t forget to sheep!) > [@Quasimodem](#): > > And **SFG** : You never did tell me if you’re a Quaker? > > You’re probably too young to remember that old Quaker Oats commercial: “Shot from Guns” (I think - or it may have been cannons), which is why I asked that. Nope, [I answered](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11373064&postcount=3329)–it must have just gotten lost in the big string of replies. You also \*\*WIN THE INTERNET \*\*for being the only person ever to correctly guess the ultimate origin of my name! 😃 (It’s actually sort of a string of references, but that’s the one that started the chain.) > [@SteveG1](#): > > It will at least get you started in raids, and some pieces are considered to be “best in slot” until you get to the hardcore endgame stuff. So, it can be worth getting. What, exactly, are you considering “harcore endgame stuff”? You’ll get upgrades to every single BoE crafted piece just by running Naxx (with the single exception of the tanking gun, which you can only upgrade off of Razorscale in Ulduar25, which I am insanely bitter about, fuck you very much Blizzard). Naxx is hardly hardcore endgame–it’s an easy 80 raid (the easiest, IMO, outside of Archavon the Loot Pinata), it can be PUGed, Ulduar is a whole tier-level higher, and even before Ulduar dropped, EoE was still higher-level. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > The “Savage” in the name of that particular set really implies “DPS”, which is kind of weird since the stats are more for a tank. 😕 “Savage” implies “PvP DPS.” You can instantly spot PvP gear because of the \*\*Resilience \*\*stat. Resil is \*\*only \*\*useful for PvP. (It has a very limited application in helping tanks reach the crit cap in PvE, but straight-up Defense is much more useful for that.) I’m guessing what’s confusing you is the Stamina. Stam is viewed as a tanking stat in PvE because tanks are the ones taking the most damage in any given encounter–DPS and healers will probably be taking some, but they should get all the HP they need from the stats on their gear without having to add extra Stam gems or chants. However, in PvP, \*\*everyone \*\*needs Stam, because \*\*everyone \*\*is taking a lot of damage. > [@winterhawk11](#): > > If you’re curious about Arthas and his descent into nutjob-hood, I recommend reading \*Arthas \*by Christie Golden. It’s one of the better of the WoW novels That’s not really saying much, though. I tried reading one once, because I’m interested in the lore, and I literally could not get through more than a few pages, the writing was so bad. It was like fanfic or something out of a creative writing class. > [@Jas09](#): > > I really wish the game had a better way of indicating whether the yellow dot was above or below your current position. YES. Instead of the current inside-outside coloring, I’ve always said that dots should be shaded to show whether a given unit is above (brighter yellow) or below (darker yellow) your current elevation. I also think that tunnels on minimaps should be shaded the same way. They should lighten as they ascend and darken as they descend. Barrow dens and caves are freakin’ impossible to navigate because the minimap is a flattened mess of every passage as if they were the same level. > [@Bosstone](#): > > So I’ve been questing in Howling Fjord for a few days now. Is it me, or does the XP come in _really slowly_? [snip] Dailies have been helping; every day I log on I make sure to play Break the Blockade and Steel Gate Patrol. But even then that’s not much XP. [snip] Is it just that the quests are easy, but you need to do a billion of them? Or am I missing something else entirely? 1.) You could just be used to the faster leveling that they introduced for the lower levels. 2.) Dailies probably give less XP than other quests. 3.) IIRC, it took me about two weeks of “slacking” leveling to go from 70 to 80 (Prot War in two T4 pieces with other random Kara/ZA gear) while buddy-questing with my pocket healer (Resto Druid in a mix of T5/T6 and equivalent). (By “slacking,” I mean spending a decent amount of time messing around with random things like exploring, starting a DK, working on other alts, etc.) 4.) Make sure you’re doing level-appropriate quests. Try to stick with quests that con to at least yellow in your quest log. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3508 "2009-07-31T20:21:27Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > That’s not really saying much, though. I tried reading one once, because I’m interested in the lore, and I literally could not get through more than a few pages, the writing was so bad. It was like fanfic or something out of a creative writing class. Oh, yeah, I hear you. But this one actually is pretty good, if you judge it against game fiction. It’s no Tolkien or anything, but it’s readable and interesting. As I mentioned before, the only thing I didn’t like about it was that things moved way too fast–it seemed unrealistic that his personality would change as fast as it did. But I understand that she only had so many pages to work with, so she did the best she could. BTW, I now wish I’d asked you about your name, because I got the reference too and wondered if you were referring to the old cereal. 🙂 Ah, well. What am I going to do with an Internet anyway? It’s probably full of malware and porn. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3509 "2009-07-31T20:58:04Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > BTW, I now wish I’d asked you about your name, because I got the reference too and wondered if you were referring to the old cereal. 🙂 I have a nut-like flavor that hits the spot! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3510 "2009-08-01T00:28:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I have a nut-like flavor that hits the spot! 😃 Tease. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3511 "2009-08-01T01:48:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > What, exactly, are you considering “harcore endgame stuff”? You’ll get upgrades to every single BoE crafted piece just by running Naxx (with the single exception of the tanking gun, which you can only upgrade off of Razorscale in Ulduar25, which I am insanely bitter about, fuck you very much Blizzard). Naxx is hardly hardcore endgame–it’s an easy 80 raid (the easiest, IMO, outside of Archavon the Loot Pinata), it can be PUGed, Ulduar is a whole tier-level higher, and even before Ulduar dropped, EoE was still higher-level. Not sure, I guess I was thinking Ulduar. I was trying to say, the crafted items will get a person started… Get or make crafted armor and / or weapons, replace it as you go. I’ve been doing some Naxx and heroics, and I have been replacing various gear as I go along.. replacing (on the mage and priest for example) the ebonweave etc with loot drops. As I go to the “higher” instances, that stuff will be replaced. Maybe it’s my server, but even for the easy runs, people will often inspect you before you get to go along. If you show up in greens, even for the easy “starter” junk, you will not get in a group here. Earlier in the thread, I made a joke about Hogger and gear checks. There is a bit of truth in that joke. Maybe it’s just peculiar to my server? ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3512 "2009-08-01T06:40:52Z")
**Amberale** (who’s down with the damn Swine Flu now) helped me get there, but I have all these new flight paths… Do my quests show up in The Armory? I have looked and cannot find them I think I have acquired some that need a group or are dungeon ones, otherwise I guess I could grind with the Striders and the Spiders, but I’m really kinda lost w/o my friend. I wish there were some kind of “advisory group” who could look at your toon and advise you on what you should do next, because I have NO CLUE. I’m _getting_ one slowly (the XP bar, 'member?:smack:), but as for anything else, Wolkie is pretty much a reflection of me: useless except to grind and help lower levellers out. It’s just a comment. Thanks, Q ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3513 "2009-08-01T09:09:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > …Maybe it’s my server, but even for the easy runs, people will often inspect you before you get to go along. If you show up in greens, even for the easy “starter” junk, you will not get in a group here. > > Earlier in the thread, I made a joke about Hogger and gear checks. There is a bit of truth in that joke. > > Maybe it’s just peculiar to my server? On no. Yesterday, after two weeks away on vacation, I got into a Nexus heroic group with my just-a-week-80 mage. The tank was one of those guys who play PvE like they’re practicing their PvP, jumping all over the place (hey you freak, you’re a paladin, I’m a mage, the other gnome is a warlock, keep the mobs together and our AoEs will work a lot better!); at one point he told the rogue (who’d gotten his first Emblem of Heroism during the run) and me that our DPS needed to get higher. My response, “isn’t that the point of these runs?” Then we killed the dragon and I got my 25 Emblems of Heroism achievement. Yay! Later I was with the same tank in another group (different toon for me) and apparently he doesn’t know which items are crafted, he’d thought the mages purples must be from Naxx (ok, dearie, I know you’re a tank, but you did get bonked on the head at least once too many). What I don’t understand, and this is a relatively new thing which may be peculiar to my server or region (ER), is people asking “what is your DPS” or saying “my DPS is X”. First, your DPS will change depending on the group; second, I’ve seen people claim levels which are from the vehicles fight in Ulduar (I don’t really think that counts); third, what happened to asking for your SP or AP, self-buffed? Yesterday someone asked my healer “how much do you heal.” Uh? What do you want, the fattest crit I’ve ever gotten on a Greater Heal? On a Renew tick? My HPS? That’s a function of how much people get hit and whether I’m tank-healing or raid-healing… Gratz on the ding, **Q** , may I call you Q? And quests do not show on the Armory. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3514 "2009-08-01T11:24:53Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > **Amberale** (who’s down with the damn Swine Flu now) helped me get there, but I have all these new flight paths… > > Do my quests show up in The Armory? I have looked and cannot find them > > I think I have acquired some that need a group or are dungeon ones, otherwise I guess I could grind with the Striders and the Spiders, but I’m really kinda lost w/o my friend. > > I wish there were some kind of “advisory group” who could look at your toon and advise you on what you should do next, because I have NO CLUE. I’m _getting_ one slowly (the XP bar, 'member?:smack:), but as for anything else, Wolkie is pretty much a reflection of me: useless except to grind and help lower levellers out. > > It’s just a comment. > > Thanks, > > Q I just rolled a DK on your server Qasi … and am now released into the real world to make my way so if we are on at the same time we can run through some of your group quests [right now I am whipping through the teldrassil quests, since we have to start in the baby zones doing quests to get our faction back and I am back picking peacebloom to get my herbalism up _sigh_ I am Aruvqan on the server, go ahead and add me to your friends and put in the little note section that I am from the dope so I wont scare you when I send you a tell =) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3515 "2009-08-01T14:55:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > What I don’t understand, and this is a relatively new thing which may be peculiar to my server or region (ER), is people asking “what is your DPS” or saying “my DPS is X”. I can’t see that AP or SP alone is a reliable indicator; your DPS is also going to depend on how well you manage your abilities. I’ve seen a couple of baselines for this that make sense to me. You can measure your DPS against a training dummy, using your abilities just as you would in a boss fight. A raid leader will understand that this is your personal DPS when not in a party and that it can go higher with the proper buffs. Secondly, I’ve seen some mention of Patchwerk DPS. Since Patchwerk is a pretty straightforward boss, it’s a way to measure your DPS while in a raid with all the extra buffing that entails. I think what’s most important, either way, is that the measurement of DPS is standard. Comparing training dummies against vehicles in Ulduar is worse than useless, and when someone gives their DPS it should be appropriate to specify _in what context_. But yes, the people citing Ulduar vehicle fights as their DPS are just damn stupid. I haven’t played Ulduar, but from what I understand of vehicles their personal stats have no bearing on the numbers, and even if it did the numbers are so wildly inflated that they have no connection to reality. That’s just tards going “Oooh, big numbers, shiny!” ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3516 "2009-08-01T18:34:48Z")
Okay, I’m a little confused now. I just spent a fair amount of time getting to Exalted with the Argent Dawn. I’m positive that I saw an Argent Dawn tabard available to those who were Exalted with AD at the tabard vendor in SW. I was apparently mistaken, because there’s no such tabard available now. Some research reveals that I need to do the quest [Under the Shadow](http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=9153) to acquire Necrotic Runes with which to make purchases from the Argent Quartermaster … except even in reading the comments on WowHead I can’t determine if this quest is even still available, as it seems to have somehow been tied in with the Scourge invasions during the release of WotLK … I definitely don’t find the guy offering the quest at Light’s Hope Chapel. The only AD quartermasters I’ve been able to find just want to sell me stuff in exchange for combinations of large numbers of Emblems of the Dawn and Emblems of the Crusade, which I’m just not going to do, since the acquiring a single Emblem of the Dawn requires either gathering 30 Savage Fronds in Un’Goro Crater or Maraudon, or 30 Core of Elements from various elementals (and both the fronds and cores have abysmal drop rates). In any case, the stuff I can buy is useless to me anyway at lvl 80. I just wanted the damn tabard. Is the AD tabard simply unobtainable now? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3517 "2009-08-01T18:42:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I think what’s most important, either way, is that the measurement of DPS is standard. Exactly. And seriously, continuing with my example from above, the mage’s DPS can be all over the place in different situations. A bossfight which she starts with both Mirror Image and the Elemental available and she happens to get a lot of instant fireballs while staying put is completely different from an AoE situation where the tank (and therefore the mobs) are playing Jumping Jack Flash, or from a kite-the-boss fight where there’s no luck with the fireballs. If I need to give a stat, I need to know how should I obtain it. And it’s kind’a hard to give a Patchwerk DPS… when people won’t take you to Naxx10 due to never having been in Naxx10 with that char. According to Wowhead, the tabard is unobtainable now, **Mister Rik**. The references to “it’s back” were for a limited time before the WotLK release. ---
**Author:** ![Reverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@Reverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reverse)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3518 "2009-08-01T18:44:51Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Is the AD tabard simply unobtainable now? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3519 "2009-08-01T18:53:28Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > O > Some research reveals that I need to do the quest [Under the Shadow](http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=9153) to acquire Necrotic Runes with which to make purchases from the Argent Quartermaster … except even in reading the comments on WowHead I can’t determine if this quest is even still available, as it seems to have somehow been tied in with the Scourge invasions during the release of WotLK … I definitely don’t find the guy offering the quest at Light’s Hope Chapel. > > (snip) > > Is the AD tabard simply unobtainable now? Unfortunately, yes. The original AD tabard was obtainable during the time leading up to the launch of BC (I think it’s called the “Tabard of the Protector”) and then the AD tabard became available during the second Scourge Invasion. When the invasion was over, the tabard was no longer obtainable. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/3520 "2009-08-01T20:06:43Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > Unfortunately, yes. The original AD tabard was obtainable during the time leading up to the launch of BC (I think it’s called the “Tabard of the Protector”) and then the AD tabard became available during the second Scourge Invasion. When the invasion was over, the tabard was no longer obtainable. Not quite, the original AD tabard was first available during the first scourge invasion(the opening of Naxxramas), the [Tabard of the Protector](http://www.wowhead.com/?item=28788) that was available during the Dark Portal event was a different tabard that used the same graphics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=175) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=177)