# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 219
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4361 "2009-08-27T15:52:01Z")
As a DPS (rogue) should I prioritize hit, expertise, or armor pen? ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4362 "2009-08-27T15:57:21Z")
I have followed the advice of people here and in my guild, and I still haven’t quite gotten the jousting down. I am too slow, I think. However, I continue to do well in the areas of blowing stuff up and shooting things out of the sky. I need to start doing some heroics and such, but the whole not getting in problem continues to exist. My friend has left the guild due to being annoyed with it (lesson: if you are an admin on a forum, and thus spend lots of your time there, it’s possible that you shouldn’t be in a WoW guild with those same people, because it could be entirely too much time around them) and joined a new one. He is infatuated with them for the moment and wants me to leave the current guild and join the new one. I see no reason to do that, as I am perfectly satisfied with them, except when they start making too many puns in guild chat. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4363 "2009-08-27T16:01:00Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Survival Hunters do good DPS and are useful for the Replenishment effect (restores mana to the raid during combat), but CC is pretty rarely used anymore–mostly it’s just about burning everything down all at once. There are some Ulduar trash packs where it’s useful to have CC, though. For instance, on the trash pulls just after you teleport to the Antechamber, we usually Banish one mob and sheep or ice trap one or two others, depending on if it’s 10 or 25-man. That’s very sad to me, and CC was always my favorite. Oh well, there’s always PvP, and I usually did better in that anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4364 "2009-08-27T16:05:59Z")
Druid tanks get dodge, not parry or block though. [Character sheet.](http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sen%27jin&n=Neeltje) Ignore the crappy old trinket; I’m one Nobles card (and a short wait to the next Faire) away from the full deck and the [Darkmoon Card: Greatness (Agi version)](http://www.wowwiki.com/Darkmoon_Card:_Greatness_%28Agility%29) trinket. The gear is from the recommendations at Elitist Jerks and elsewhere, and is based on what I could manage to get with what little grouping I’ve been doing on that character. She is a leatherworker and IIRC some enhancements are LW-only. The legs, gloves, and nice trinket are from ToC. Warning: Wearing the Wyrmrest Accord tabard (red and yellow and obnoxious) with the Polar Vest and Boots (bright blue/green) makes you look like you got dressed in the dark. The fashion disaster is even worse blown up to Tauren size. Apparently I’ve miscalculated on gemming more for Hit rather than Expertise. I have a 450 Jewelcrafter, so I can pick up the new “epic” expertise gem pattern in a day or two when I have enough tokens. I’m also overcapped on Defense by almost 1.5%, so I could afford to gem against the socket’s color and lose a Defense bonus in a ring, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4365 "2009-08-27T16:16:33Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Druid tanks get dodge, not parry or block though. Gah, right. I’ve gotta stop typing off the cuff. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4366 "2009-08-27T16:41:50Z")
Note also that crit is effectively a defensive stat (as well as a threat-generating stat) for bear tanks. As a bear tank, your number 1 priority is to survive. Number 2 is to generate threat. In general, more health is preferable to a fractional % increase in hit chance; you will rarely miss, but you will _always_ be taking hits. Again generally speaking, the stat priority for bear tanks tends to be Armor \> Stamina \> Dodge / Agi \> Everything else. A good guide to bear tanking can be found [here](http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=9521444247) (why is it that the European WoW forums are always so much more useful than the US ones…?). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4367 "2009-08-27T16:45:17Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > A good guide to bear tanking can be found [here](http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=9521444247) (why is it that the European WoW forums are always so much more useful than the US ones…?). Socialism, clearly. Not in the face! ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4368 "2009-08-27T16:54:50Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > A good guide to bear tanking can be found [here](http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=9521444247) (why is it that the European WoW forums are always so much more useful than the US ones…?). I think I love you. Or them. Whichever. I mentioned a bit earlier in the thread that I tanked Heroic Azjol-Nerub with a guild group to get them Achievements, and the elemental shaman that was with us mentioned that he had a little trouble with him getting aggro at the start of the fight. We retorted that he was much better geared than most people in the guild, so yes, that might happen. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4369 "2009-08-27T17:14:59Z")
I’m still trying to decide if I want to try tanking or DPSing as Feral. I know I want to primarily do Resto, but I’m thinking that even within Feral I can lean one way or the other. Even if I can do both with one Feral spec, it might be too much maintaining three sets of gear anyway. I’m so looking forward to talenting as Resto, though. I’ve already healed for two different PUGs and had a lot of fun with it, and other than wearing +Int gear I’m not set up for healing at all. The sheer amount of healing power in the Resto tree is making my eyes light up. I just need 1000 gold and 11 more levels. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4370 "2009-08-27T17:19:59Z")
I never really took to druid healing, but quite like priest healing, for whatever reason. Possibly because of Power Word Shield, which is a great “oh crap that guy is getting hammered get him to safety STAT” spell. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4371 "2009-08-27T17:34:59Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I never really took to druid healing, but quite like priest healing, for whatever reason. Possibly because of Power Word Shield, which is a great “oh crap that guy is getting hammered get him to safety STAT” spell. My priest is dual-spec’d as Disc/Holy and Holy/Disc, aka tank healing vs group/raid healing. The Disc talent Borrowed Time increases the effectiveness of the shield by 40% and the haste on your next spell by 25%, so it’s great for speeding off a Greater Heal with… until you’re healing a group and you pause when you wonder why Borrowed Time didn’t proc, not remembering at first that you don’t have that talent in your Holy-oriented spec. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4372 "2009-08-27T17:55:33Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > As a DPS (rogue) should I prioritize hit, expertise, or armor pen? For ANYBODY except healers, getting hitcapped is about the first thing. Even tanks: they need to defcap asap but a tank whose threat-generating attacks don’t hit the mobs won’t be able to keep them on him. Healers hitcap simply happens to be zero, as their targets don’t try to avoid the Renews 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4373 "2009-08-27T17:59:20Z")
Semi-related question: does anyone have information on Druid weapon skill? My chance to hit while in Bear and Cat form doesn’t seem to be based on my 2-Handed Mace skill, since that’s very very low, but I haven’t found any info on what it is based on. Is it just assumed to be automatically Level x 5? I do seem to get dodged/parried/blocked a lot more often as Feral than I recall being on my other melee characters, but I have no way to compare. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4374 "2009-08-27T18:08:34Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Semi-related question: does anyone have information on Druid weapon skill? My chance to hit while in Bear and Cat form doesn’t seem to be based on my 2-Handed Mace skill, since that’s very very low, but I haven’t found any info on what it is based on. Is it just assumed to be automatically Level x 5? I do seem to get dodged/parried/blocked a lot more often as Feral than I recall being on my other melee characters, but I have no way to compare. Weapon skill for druids is only relevant while in caster form (or moonkin form). While shapeshifted to feral forms, your weapon skill is considered to be max for your level. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4375 "2009-08-27T18:19:48Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > Weapon skill for druids is only relevant while in caster form (or moonkin form). While shapeshifted to feral forms, your weapon skill is considered to be max for your level. That’s what I figured, but couldn’t find anything explicit. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4376 "2009-08-27T18:28:29Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Even tanks: they need to defcap asap but a tank whose threat-generating attacks don’t hit the mobs won’t be able to keep them on him. For druid tanks, this is directly opposite of the advice given above in the thread **Darwin’s Finch** posted. ☹ My confusion is understandable, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4377 "2009-08-27T18:31:28Z")
Do what the thread says then. But keep in mind that there’s such things as talents that give +hit: for some specs, the first source of +hit is talents and not gear (as a shadow priest, almost half of my +hit is from talents). ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4378 "2009-08-27T18:34:33Z")
Plus Druid tanks don’t need to gear for defense, as it’s covered by talents. That might be part of **Ferret Herder** ’s confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4379 "2009-08-27T18:51:42Z")
Oh yeah, it’s still the same thing though: they get defense from talents, not from equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/4380 "2009-08-27T19:00:56Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Plus Druid tanks don’t need to gear for defense, as it’s covered by talents. That might be part of **Ferret Herder** ’s confusion. Talents for Defense but not for Hit. And I found another source that said “omg Hit” and another that emphasized Expertise over Hit… _headdesk_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=218) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=220)