# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 283
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5641 "2009-10-02T14:52:29Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > And yeah, Swipe ‘CC’ isn’t the best since the damage isn’t that hot. I try to get in an early Swipe to spread out some hate, then turn into a spamming maniac, trying to slap attacks everywhere. I do have Maul glyphed but it seems like it takes so long to go off that I don’t use it as often as I should. > > I pull one target with Growl, then switch to Feral Faerie Fire for what’s supposed to be the primary target, so I’ve established some aggro on two targets before they even arrive at the group. Then Demoralizing Roar to debuff all of them, Swipe, and from there start popping whatever I can. Occasional Mangle as a debuff and to activate my idol, Lacerate all over, throw in Maul when I don’t get annoyed with the timer. Skip Lacerate in multimob situations, it’s a waste of rage and gcd’s when compared to Swipe. Maul is an On-next-Swing-attack and it is off the gcd, so as long as you’re not rage starved you should use it as often as possible(ie once every 2.5(minus any haste) seconds). Regarding Growl, one thing that is _very_ important to remember is that **Growl does not generate any threat on its own!** It just places you on top of the aggro list and temporarily force the mob to attack you , but if the mob is already attacking you it does nothing, and if you use it on a mob that isn’t aggroed it will just put you at the top of an empty threat list. **Bosstone** , if you need to use Challenging Roar more than once every 3 minutes, then you’re doing something wrong, it’s a panic button that should rarely be needed and same as Growl it doesn’t generate any aggro on its own, it just forces the mobs to attack you. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5642 "2009-10-02T15:00:41Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Woot! I bet you never want to look at another piece of Runecloth, either. 😃 For my Ambassador run, I think I turned in a few sets of runecloth (which I’d piled up anyway while getting Guardian of Cenarius), but mostly did baby quests and Tourney turn-ins. Still have 16 useless Writs of the Champion sitting around, too. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5643 "2009-10-02T15:01:50Z")
BTW, for anyone grinding to Ambassador by way of the tourney, note that the turn-in rep boosts DO “splash” into other Horde reps, so you get 250 with your chosen faction plus 62.5 with each of the others. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5644 "2009-10-02T15:13:10Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > **Bosstone** , if you need to use Challenging Roar more than once every 3 minutes, then you’re doing something wrong, it’s a panic button that should rarely be needed and same as Growl it doesn’t generate any aggro on its own, it just forces the mobs to attack you. Hmm. Well, I don’t have any first hand experience with tanking for a group. I was mainly going off a bear guide I’d read. _cough_ ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5645 "2009-10-02T15:15:37Z")
Yeah, I mark targets, we have a kill list, but a lot of times, DPSers kind of think that’s optional. (We aren’t a hardcore guild by any stretch of the imagination.) I toss Growl on the secondary kill target because the most common ‘killing them in order is so boring’ DPSer will aim for target #2 first, even before it arrives at me, so I’m just trying to get it to get close enough to me for something else about what I’m doing to make it even more mad at me. Lacerating each of your foes gets props on druid forums because the DoT creates hate. If you can slap one on each target while doing everything else, it helps build up that aggro. It’s not my priority but I do try to do it. I’ve got a “on mouseover” macro for it as well as a regular Lacerate hotkey. Challenging Roar is my “omg emergency” button, typically. Something goes terribly wrong, or we’ve got a huge mass of mobs and I want them on me **now** , like the masses of undead in the Black Knight fight in ToC. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5646 "2009-10-02T15:18:21Z")
**SFG,** I only really farmed the runecloth hard for Exodar, since they have so few quests and I didn’t think about the spillover rep till later. But yeah, if I never seen any more runecloth, I wouldn’t mind. It’s also going to take severe bribery to get me back into Scholomance, or as I like to call it, the undead fabric shop. I went on an enchant spree. I bought Greater Savagery for my melee weapon, Icewalker for my boots, and Precision for my gloves. I need a better gun; I’ve been using the Projectile Activator (which dropped from Loken in Halls of Lightning) for a while, and I covet the True-Aim Long Rifle, which is a Black Knight drop in heroic Trial of the Champion. I haven’t seen it drop yet, though. I have an elixir mastery tale to tell. One of my guildies logged onto her alchemist to make flasks for her other character’s raiding, and had enough materials for five makings of Flask of the Frost Wyrm. That makes ten flasks, since each set of materials makes two flasks. With that and her elixir mastery, she ended up making twenty-three flasks! I have elixir mastery but I’m never that lucky with the procs. On the other hand, when I was still transmute mastery, getting the extra proc seemed to happen more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5647 "2009-10-02T15:33:36Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yeah, I mark targets, we have a kill list, but a lot of times, DPSers kind of think that’s optional. Make sure they know it isn’t. Reinforce the lesson by letting them die to mobs they pull out of order, if necessary. (Let the healer know your plan so they can stop healing the moron, too.) An extra repair bill is a swift teacher, I’ve found. > [@](#): > > I toss Growl on the secondary kill target because the most common ‘killing them in order is so boring’ DPSer will aim for target #2 first, even before it arrives at me, so I’m just trying to get it to get close enough to me for something else about what I’m doing to make it even more mad at me. Just remember that pulling with Growl has exactly the same effect as a body pull–it puts you on the aggro table, but with zero threat. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5648 "2009-10-02T15:39:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > If you need everybody in your raid wearing three pieces of FR gear… > 1.) You need a Paladin or a Shaman for FR aura or totem; or > 2.) You’re not bringing enough healers; or > 3.) You’re bringing the wrong kind of healers (too many single-target vs. raid); or > 4.) Your healers suck. No we don’t need to wear three pieces of frost gear but to be fair when I wear three well gemmed pieces, my HPS may drop 10%, my mana regen goes down a lot but its never a problem, it also almost guarantees that I don’t die during that encounter. > [@](#): > > When you’re first learning the fight, I’d could see using one, maybe two pieces of FR gear for everybody, but even that’s going to generally gimp your DPS and healing pretty hard, assuming they have halfway decent gear. I certainly can’t imagine \*\*anybody \*\*but the tank wearing \*\*three \*\*pieces. One maybe two when you are first learning the fight? We were suing two maybe three when we first learned the fight and like I said only the tank wears it when we are going for rare cache otherwise why risk a death by having people try Hodir with no frost resist, that raidwide AOE knocks some of our squishier raiders down to 20-25%. > [@](#): > > And my point about mats still stands: it doesn’t matter how much AOE Frost damage your raid is taking if the tank can’t stand up to a single Frozen Blow. > > Not very often. Like I said, the situation doesn’t come up very much anymore. OK, so you are basically arguing a moot point. [guild]The past three guilds I’ve been a member of have all used loot councils, and the loot council has worked well for all three. The first guild was a hardcore raiding guild on Arygos, the second was a decent raiding guild on Borean Tundra, and the current one is the top raiding guild on BT. I can only speak from my own experience, and my experience says that loot councils work well and are the best thing for your guild as a whole. [/quote] Do you actively look for these loot council guilds? I have only been in two and one was during the endgame of BC when you had to min/max everything and the other was when I played EQ and the raid mechanics almost forced you to focus gear your tanks and healers. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5649 "2009-10-02T15:45:02Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Just remember that pulling with Growl has exactly the same effect as a body pull–it puts you on the aggro table, but with zero threat. OK, I think I’ll switch then - pull secondary with FFF if I need to, retarget primary, hit Growl if someone says “oh hai target, shooting before druid can engage” and yoink it back to me. A lot of DPSers (not all by any means) seem to think that if they **ever** get aggro, clearly the tank sucks. And I’m a tad defensive about my tanking. (Pun not intended.) My husband is usually my healer, though, so he’s all in favor of a “you pull it, you tank it” methodology. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5650 "2009-10-02T15:46:47Z")
I have a mining question. Do the elemental abilities you get once you get past 300 actually DO anything? Because I’m reading them and they say “Turn 10 Motes of Fire into Primal Fire”, but the tooltip for Mote of Fire says exactly the same thing on Use (meaning you should be able to simply right-click a stack of 10 Motes of Fire and it will turn into a Primal Fire), so I’m not sure what good having it as a smelting ability does. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5651 "2009-10-02T15:49:12Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I have a mining question. Do the elemental abilities you get once you get past 300 actually DO anything? Because I’m reading them and they say “Turn 10 Motes of Fire into Primal Fire”, but the tooltip for Mote of Fire says exactly the same thing on Use (meaning you should be able to simply right-click a stack of 10 Motes of Fire and it will turn into a Primal Fire), so I’m not sure what good having it as a smelting ability does. You’re reading it backward. The Smelting ability is to turn 1 Primal Fire back into 10 Motes of Fire. You can use the Mote stack to create a Primal, but you can’t reverse it unless you have the Mining ability. I have no idea why Blizzard did that, and considering that Crystallized elements in Northrend can be freely converted back and forth, I’m not sure they knew why either. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5652 "2009-10-02T15:56:55Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > You’re reading it backward. The Smelting ability is to turn 1 Primal Fire back into 10 Motes of Fire. You can use the Mote stack to create a Primal, but you can’t reverse it unless you have the Mining ability. I have no idea why Blizzard did that, and considering that Crystallized elements in Northrend can be freely converted back and forth, I’m not sure they knew why either. 😛 I swear, I’m just going to petition to copyright the headsmacking smiley at this point. Okay, that makes more sense than what I was thinking. It still doesn’t make MUCH sense, but it makes MORE than it did now. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5653 "2009-10-02T16:00:48Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Lacerating each of your foes gets props on druid forums because the DoT creates hate. If you can slap one on each target while doing everything else, it helps build up that aggro. It’s not my priority but I do try to do it. I’ve got a “on mouseover” macro for it as well as a regular Lacerate hotkey. The Lacerate dot doesn’t do that much threat, around 1 threat per damage from what I can tell, once you’ve got a full stack going then it’s pretty decent since it’s in addition to the other abilities, but one application ? No. The non-dot threat from Lacerate(1100 threat at 5.5k ap) is about the same as Swipe(1300 threat at 5.5k ap), but it only hits one target while Swipe hits all of them. The main benefit of applying Lacerate is that it boosts Maul through Rend and Tear, but even when you take that into consideration I think the gcd’s are better spent on Swipe. This is of course in multimob situations, when you’re dealing with a single target, Lacerate away. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5654 "2009-10-02T16:08:46Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > The Lacerate dot doesn’t do that much threat, around 1 threat per damage from what I can tell, once you’ve got a full stack going then it’s pretty decent since it’s in addition to the other abilities, but one application ? No. > The non-dot threat from Lacerate(1100 threat at 5.5k ap) is about the same as Swipe(1300 threat at 5.5k ap), but it only hits one target while Swipe hits all of them. > The main benefit of applying Lacerate is that it boosts Maul through Rend and Tear, but even when you take that into consideration I think the gcd’s are better spent on Swipe. > This is of course in multimob situations, when you’re dealing with a single target, Lacerate away. Good analysis, thanks. Anything to reduce frantic key fumbling is great by me. On another note: my husband was mad at himself because he thought he was at fault for our guild run of Ony10 failing. We’ve done it before, and he kept dying as his shaman healer, assigned to the MT. He was kicking himself over being sick and obviously failing somehow. Yesterday, after consulting with another guildie who was in the run, he learned (I don’t know if the guildie was going over combat logs or noticed right before the guy logged off) - their DK tank was in Blood Presence. Furthermore, he does have a Blood DPS spec and gear set in addition to his tank set and Frost tank spec, so… yeah, who knows. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5655 "2009-10-02T16:12:49Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Good analysis, thanks. Anything to reduce frantic key fumbling is great by me. > > On another note: my husband was mad at himself because he thought he was at fault for our guild run of Ony10 failing. We’ve done it before, and he kept dying as his shaman healer, assigned to the MT. He was kicking himself over being sick and obviously failing somehow. > > Yesterday, after consulting with another guildie who was in the run, he learned (I don’t know if the guildie was going over combat logs or noticed right before the guy logged off) - their DK tank was in Blood Presence. Furthermore, he does have a Blood DPS spec and gear set in addition to his tank set and Frost tank spec, so… yeah, who knows. :smack: I’ve been guilty of the opposite once or twice; DPSing while in Frost Presence. Generally it’s because we wiped once on a boss & I had tried to swap to frost presence and “tank” and then forgot to switch back. I also sometimes forget to go into any presence at all when I switch from my instancing to my soloing spec. Trying to cut down on that, I am. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5656 "2009-10-02T17:39:34Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yesterday, after consulting with another guildie who was in the run, he learned (I don’t know if the guildie was going over combat logs or noticed right before the guy logged off) - their DK tank was in Blood Presence. Furthermore, he does have a Blood DPS spec and gear set in addition to his tank set and Frost tank spec, so… yeah, who knows. :smack: 😃 As a hunter, though, I’ve done something similar with pet dispositions. Usually I leave me pet on passive in dungeons so they never do anything without my say-so. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5657 "2009-10-02T18:49:33Z")
Soooo I just realized this post has been sitting in preview for about three hours. :smack: Not going to preview again, sorry if it’s anything redundant. > [@col\_10022](#): > > why risk a death by having people try Hodir with no frost resist, that raidwide AOE knocks some of our squishier raiders down to 20-25% Sounds like (a) you don’t have a Frost Resist aura or totem up or (b) your people aren’t moving or standing next to fires to prevent Biting Cold damage. Just Frozen Blows shouldn’t be hitting them for that much. I don’t suppose you have a WWS or WoL parse I could look at? > [@](#): > > OK, so you are basically arguing a moot point. The discussion started from somebody bitching about something that used to happen back in, like, MC raids. So that’s what I was talking about. > [@](#): > > Do you actively look for these loot council guilds? I have only been in two and one was during the endgame of BC when you had to min/max everything and the other was when I played EQ and the raid mechanics almost forced you to focus gear your tanks and healers. Nope. The first already used LC when I joined, the second I convinced the GM to use a LC instead of the incredibly poorly thought out DKP system he’d invented, and the third already used LC when I joined. Guess I’m just lucky. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > A lot of DPSers (not all by any means) seem to think that if they **ever** get aggro, clearly the tank sucks. If a target pulls off that the the DPS is supposed to be hitting, it’s the tank’s fault. If a target pulls off that the DPS it NOT supposed to be hitting, it’s the DPS’s fault. Make this explicitly clear. I’ll be happy to roll a level 1 alt to come tell them they’re retarded, if you like. 😃 > [@](#): > > My husband is usually my healer, though, so he’s all in favor of a “you pull it, you tank it” methodology. 😃 Smart man. I understand your reluctance to let people die to their mistakes (I feel the same way–I think it’s a natural tank instinct), but there’s a certain class of moron who needs to learn the hard way. If they keep doing it once they’ve been warned, stop taunting the mob back and stop healing them. Make sure to tell them that they died because they fucked up, too. I guarantee they’ll either shape up or stop running with you–either way, your problem is solved. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5658 "2009-10-02T19:07:24Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > The Smelting ability is to turn 1 Primal Fire back into 10 Motes of Fire. You can use the Mote stack to create a Primal, but you can’t reverse it unless you have the Mining ability. I have no idea why Blizzard did that, and considering that Crystallized elements in Northrend can be freely converted back and forth, I’m not sure they knew why either. 😛 Possibly they were thinking of it as analogous to shards. Only Enchanters can build shards up or break them down. Blizz also has a habit of playing around with things from expansion to expansion–they’ll change how a mechanic works for the new level of an item, but they won’t retrofit (for lack of a better term than I can think of right now) the rest of the game. See: the earlier explanation of tier drops. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’ve been guilty of the opposite once or twice; DPSing while in Frost Presence. I’ve started a pull in Battle Stance rather than Defensive stance once or twice. I usually figure it out right away, though, since my action bars are different, so worst-case I just miss out on the Rage I got from Charge. What was legendary, however, was when I once attempted to tank the second boss of AN **in my DPS gear** (but Prot spec). A melee DPS item had dropped off of the first boss, and I’d swapped into my DPS to make it easier to check if the item was an upgrade. The healer couldn’t figure out why I kept taking so much damage, and I was staring straight at my character thinking, “Huh, something looks off here, my that certainly is a big sword… Wait a minute, where the hell is my shield?!” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5659 "2009-10-02T19:36:14Z")
I’ve gone into instances and healed a trash pull or two before realizing I still had my fishing gear equipped (pole and hat). Hell I once went through a whole Wintergrasp battle with my fishing pole equipped. “Why are these heals so small!!??” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/5660 "2009-10-02T19:43:00Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I’ve gone into instances and healed a trash pull or two before realizing I still had my fishing gear equipped (pole and hat). Hell I once went through a whole Wintergrasp battle with my fishing pole equipped. “Why are these heals so small!!??” I believe I DPS’d a guild run of Sunken Temple that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=282) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=284)