# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 327
**Author:** ![Jbone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@Jbone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jbone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6521 "2009-11-05T16:25:46Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > I just sent this PM to the co-GMs of our guild. I’m more than moderately frustrated at the generally lax attitude some folks take toward raiding. I’m not a “hardcore” raider, but I had hoped that people would at least be serious about the time they’re actually raiding. Is your guild tuned more towards raiding that anything else? Generally, from what I’ve experienced, is that if you’re a constant burden you won’t get invited to the raids. If it’s a casual raiding guild, which I assume it is because normally these “infractions” are not tolerated, I wouldn’t look forward to it changing any time soon. Also, again from my experience, guildies who have had problems with the way things are currently working are usually on their way out the door for greener pastures. When i start to get frustrated at anything, I take a step back and look at it for what it is. I pay $15 a month, like everyone, to play a game. It’s my $15 that is being spent so I’m going to play the way I want until I don’t feel it’s worth paying the money for. Play the game the way you want to play. You’re not playing for anyone else but yourself so if you’re not enjoying something you’re doing, why are you doing it? I may be way off base and and you were probably just looking to vent a bit, but that’s the way I look at it. Good luck to you, I hope maybe your guild officers start to bonk some heads to get everyone in line. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6522 "2009-11-05T16:42:27Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > It depends on what grade of PVP gear it was, but for the most part the PUG guy was in the right. A set of PVP purples is, for most classes and scenarios, inferior for raiding purposes to even a set of level 80 blues, because the PVP gear spends so much of its item budget on stamina and resilience, and tends to lack key stats like hit. But, more importantly, your average person who’s wearing ONLY honor-obtainable PVP gear probably can’t be trusted to even find a PVE instance, much less do anything inside of it. Ever since Battlegrounds started giving rewards even for failure, quite a lot of people fail their way to a set of purples, just because they’re purple. I would note that I don’t pvp but the BiS weapons are frequently PVP gear and it is making me think about trying to pvp and try to get that weapon. How hard is it to get the relentless stuff? ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6523 "2009-11-05T17:08:01Z")
Jbone, I’m mostly venting, I guess. ☹ What I need is an attitude adjustment. The guild won’t change, so I have to make peace with the way it is. I think I’m gonna cut back on my raid nights from 4 to 3 most weeks. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6524 "2009-11-05T17:11:49Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I would note that I don’t pvp but the BiS weapons are frequently PVP gear and it is making me think about trying to pvp and try to get that weapon. How hard is it to get the relentless stuff? There have been cases of PvP weapons having BiS stats, but that’s generally not true. PvP weapons will be itemized for PvP with resilience and stam. using some of the stat budget that would have been used for other useful-for-PvE stats. On preview, I see that Mehkazzio covered this. ---
**Author:** ![Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Words_on_the_Interweb)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6525 "2009-11-05T17:44:59Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Jbone, I’m mostly venting, I guess. ☹ > > What I need is an attitude adjustment. The guild won’t change, so I have to make peace with the way it is. > > I think I’m gonna cut back on my raid nights from 4 to 3 most weeks. I’ve been there, to an extent, except as an officer. And I just have to say - please don’t dump on the officers the way you did in your PM. They’re doing their best, and if they’re really interested in raiding, they’re probably more frustrated with the situation than you are - not only are they experiencing the exact same frustrations as you with the other raiders, they have to deal with the burden of responsibility for keeping the rest of the guild happy. You’re right that you need an attitude adjustment (if you want to continue on in your current guild), but your PM isn’t going to accomplish that - all you’re really doing there is spreading your unhappiness around. Ulduar has been out almost 8 months now, and many raid guilds are having problems filling their rosters right now - people are bored, and ToC/Ony may be repetitive and boring, too, but at least it’s quick and the rewards are good. With ICC on the way, Uld starts feeling even more stale for people, and the rewards become less enticing because they’re just going to be replaced in ICC. Achievements are all well and good, but in the long run, they’re weak motivators because they don’t really improve a character, whereas someone geared in ToC-25 drops and Triumph badge gear should be just fine for starting ICC… without the headache of fights like Yogg, and 2-3 nights clearing trash and bosses. Your expectations of raids, and the fact you’ve been raiding 4 nights per week, make you a “hardcore” raider in WoW, regardless of what you want to label yourself… if you’re that frustrated and your guild has never had the focus you want, there are plenty of raid guilds recruiting. The grass is greener, of course, but at least more “hardcore” guilds generally enforce certain standards of behaviour for granting raid slots. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6526 "2009-11-05T17:59:31Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Woot. You may now call me Twilight Vanquisher Tacoloco! Woohoo! > [@tacoloco](#): > > I just sent this PM to the co-GMs of our guild. Even in a casual raiding guild, there can be rewards and consequences for things like showing up on time for raids. People with more consistent attendence can be given priority for raid slots, for example. Of course, that only works when you have enough people that you can sit a few. If you need every single raider, that puts you in a bit of a bind. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > IMHO, as a healer, managing the scarabs and their debuffs is the secret to clearing anub regular mode. The scarabs have never been a problem, AFAIK. We certainly tend to faceroll straight through everyone on regular. > [@Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](#): > > I’ve been there, to an extent, except as an officer. And I just have to say - please don’t dump on the officers the way you did in your PM. Another perspective: I don’t think \*\*tacoloco \*\*“dumped” at all. These are the kind of things that need to be said. If some raiders are getting frustrated but never bring it up with the GMs or officers, those leaders may not know there’s a problem, or they might assume that no one’s bothered by it. There could also be a situation where the officers are trying to convince the GMs to do something, and hearing from members could be the extra push to get the necessary changes made. Hell, \*\*TL \*\*didn’t even really make any criticisms: just said, “This is the way it is, and I don’t like it, but there really isn’t anything we can do, so I’m going to try to adjust my own attitude.” My position may be slightly biased because of my previous experiences. Specifically, there was a time where almost every officer (myself included) was trying to convince our GM/RL to change how we were running raids, but he was stubborn and convinced he was right, and by the time he finally realized we were right and switched things up, it was too late to save the guild. If more members had come to them with their feelings, too, the guild might still exist. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6527 "2009-11-05T18:29:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I would note that I don’t pvp but the BiS weapons are frequently PVP gear and it is making me think about trying to pvp and try to get that weapon. How hard is it to get the relentless stuff? If by Relentless, you mean the 258 grade that is making the BIS lists rather than the 245, then you need to be in something like the top 5% of whichever arena bracket you decide to participate in. If you’re not already an avid PVPer (and, importantly, know other people who also are) then you will find this very challenging if not impossible. However, the 245 weapons (which are still pretty good) are a lot more obtainable. Even then, it bears noting that these weapons place high because of their sheer item level and lack of competition. If you’re looking for, say, an item level 245 two-handed strength weapon out of 10-man raiding, then there is one and only one item that fits the bill. The PVP weapons are almost never better than their raiding counterparts, but if you are a PVPer (and, even better, one of the currently dominant arena classes/specs) then it’s much easier to get a weapon from arena than from the end-boss of the hard-mode raid that was just released last week. The only time PVP weapons actually -are- best in slot straight-up is for feral druid and DK tanking, where their immense stamina budget blows all the PVE (and exclusively DPS-oriented) alternatives out of the water. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6528 "2009-11-05T18:36:56Z")
> [@Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](#): > > Achievements are all well and good, but in the long run, they’re weak motivators because they don’t really improve a character, whereas someone geared in ToC-25 drops and Triumph badge gear should be just fine for starting ICC… without the headache of fights like Yogg It’s not about improving the character, it’s about improving the player. TOC is severely undertuned for the tier it supposedly occupies. I would hope that Icecrown is not as comically trivial. Ulduar is a much better training ground for a raid’s cohesion and sophistication. The fights are more dynamic and they cover a broader range of game mechanics. Yogg-Saron alone has more going on, at once, than the entirety of TOC. If you had two hypothetical raid groups where one just farmed TOC25-normal and called it a week, while the other spent all their time in 10-man Ulduar including Algalon, I would stake a large wager that the “weak” raid in 226 gear would do vastly better than the one coated in 245. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6529 "2009-11-05T18:43:51Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Quick thought from last night’s alt instance: wow, Dire Maul West is a hell of a lot harder than DM East. Yeah, no kidding. I think we’re a tiny bit underleveled (most of the trash was 60 elite), and of course not knowing what we were doing didn’t help. It was nice to have Flightlessbird’s lock for the CC, but it made aggro management harder for both of us due to his level. I’ll think about how we want to approach it next week, but we’ll probably want to go through DM-East at least one more time first - that’ll at least get me to 57. I’ll also do a little more preparation in terms of DM-West layout and strategy for next time. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6530 "2009-11-05T18:48:11Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Yeah, no kidding. I think we’re a tiny bit underleveled (most of the trash was 60 elite), and of course not knowing what we were doing didn’t help. It was nice to have Flightlessbird’s lock for the CC, but it made aggro management harder for both of us due to his level. We really need a plan for dealing with those mana elementals that split into 4; maybe Mordrin and I need to go stand up next to you and be ready to spam holy novas to AOE the baby mana things they spawn down FAST. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6531 "2009-11-05T18:58:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Beasts: > [ul] > [li]Magnataur: keep an eye on the health of guy who gets a kobold on his head;[/li][li]Worms: if you get fire on you, go to the guy with poison on him, and vice versa. Watch out for the mobile worm, it has a frontal acid spray;[/li][li]Yeti: when everyone gets thrown to the wall, if the Yeti is looking at or near you, run along the wall to get behind/to the side of him.[/li][/ul] Magnataur: don’t forget to keep healing the tanks even after they switch tanking because the debuff keeps doing damage. Make sure your grid or xperl shows debuffs so you can heal people through fires while you yell at them over vent to get the hell out of the fire. > [@](#): > > Jaraxxus: > [ul] > [li]Heal the guy with incinerate flesh (DBM will warn you);[/li][li]Run in a straight line to the wall and around the edge of the room if you get legion flames on you (DBM will warn you about this, too);[/li][li]Get out of hellfire.[/li][/ul] You can also run in a spiral so that you leave a concentrated patch of legion flame > [@](#): > > Faction Champions > [ul] > [li]Try not to die. Don’t stand there like a goober if something is hitting you - running away from it will frequently get it to switch targets, and may prevent some hits from landing if there are hunter frost traps, earthbind totems, or other snares on the target.[/li][li]If you have time, and see a hostile totem, whack it… DPS classes are notoriously bad about hitting them, in my experience, and nothing makes this fight take longer than a rampant healing stream totem working on all the mobs.[/li][/ul] Don’t forget to equip a PVP trinket, getting feared for 6 seconds can spell a couple of deaths if you don’t trinket out. Totally agree on that running away thing. This might be one of the few instances when pallies don’t get yelled at for having crusader’s aura. Don’t be afraid to throw out some interrupts and crowd control when you get a few spare healing cycles (for example when the mobs decide they are going to focus fire your main tank, LOL) because one less mob doing DPS is less healing demand. At some point in the fight, I find myself doing more CC than healing. > [@](#): > > Twins: > [ul] > [li]There are dark portals and light portals: click the one that’s the same colour as the Twin you’re standing near, or whichever colour you like if you’re in the middle;[/li][li]There will be orbs floating at around the room - avoid orbs that are the opposite of your colour (moving your camera to a top-down view can help);[/li][li]Click the other coloured portal when DBM yells at you.[/li][/ul] I stand near a portal of the opposite color so I can switch colors quickly if need be. > [@](#): > > Anub’arak: > [ul] > [li]Watch out for the spikes on the ground when he submerges underground (they will insta-kill you if they touch you);[/li][li]If the spikes are chasing you (DBM again), run away from the spikes and get a patch of frozen earth (a white spot on the ground) between you and the spikes;[/li][li]At 30% he does a leeching swarm ability - don’t heal anyone to full except the tank, try to keep everyone around 20-30% health, because the more health people have, the faster Anub’arak steals it and heals himself.[/li][/ul] The spikes won’t instakill you if they graze you. Keep the tanks at full health cuz they can get oneshotted if they are too low and it is a delicate balance to keep the raid above 20% but below 50%. If you don’t use grid or xperl then you are going to overheal because of the hots on other people. > [@](#): > > Also, imo, ToC-25 is easier than ToC-10 simply because there are more healers to share the burden, and one or two bad DPS won’t kill the raid like it will on a 10-man. YMMV I find 10 man to be IMMENSELY easier to heal. The 10 man version is MUCH more forgiving and we can oneshot TOC 10 man on a pretty consistent basis. We still have trouble beating the enrage timer on Anubarak. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6532 "2009-11-05T19:08:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > This might be one of the few instances when pallies don’t get yelled at for having crusader’s aura. Hope that was a joke… Crusader Aura only affects \*\*mounted \*\*speed. IIRC, the only aura that buffs all movement speed is Aspect of the Pack, and that would be deadly for Faction Champs because of the daze-on-hit. Speaking of FC, here’s another trick for it: dedicate one DPS to attacking a pet. You’re not trying to kill it–the idea is to make the pet soak up the heals that would otherwise go to the bosses. It works because the healers tend to prioritize the thing with the lowest HP by strict numbers, not by percentages. I’m almost always assigned to locking down a healer (Holy Pally or Priest), and I can tell you that with this strategy, my target spends most of its time healing the pet we’ve got a Hunter sitting on. Thish also means I’m much more likely to have a stun or interrupt available to cut off the heals that do matter. So you have fewer heals going to the bosses and the heals that do go to them are more likely to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b19c9b/32.png) [@Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Words_on_the_Interweb)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6533 "2009-11-05T19:28:09Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > It’s not about improving the character, it’s about improving the player. TOC is severely undertuned for the tier it supposedly occupies. I would hope that Icecrown is not as comically trivial. Ulduar is a much better training ground for a raid’s cohesion and sophistication. The fights are more dynamic and they cover a broader range of game mechanics. Yogg-Saron alone has more going on, at once, than the entirety of TOC. Even for hardcore raiders, after 8 months, it’s difficult to get “motivated”. And for a lot of people who are hardcore in their time investment and character development, they still don’t necessarily want to bang their heads against the wall of hard bosses that are near-obsolete. You see Achievements as a way to improve the player by working harder, and to a large extent, I agree; the issue with raid guilds right now though, is many people don’t, and no amount of cajoling is going to change it. I’m just describing what’s going on in the game right now in general based on my observations, not saying I like it. 😉 > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The spikes won’t instakill you if they graze you. If you’re a plate DPS class with ~24k+ unbuffed hitpoints, no, but if you’re a healer with ~18k, yeah, they will… ask me how I know. :smack: > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Another perspective: I don’t think \*\*tacoloco \*\*“dumped” at all. These are the kind of things that need to be said. If some raiders are getting frustrated but never bring it up with the GMs or officers, those leaders may not know there’s a problem, or they might assume that no one’s bothered by it. There could also be a situation where the officers are trying to convince the GMs to do something, and hearing from members could be the extra push to get the necessary changes made. Hell, \*\*TL \*\*didn’t even really make any criticisms: just said, “This is the way it is, and I don’t like it, but there really isn’t anything we can do, so I’m going to try to adjust my own attitude.” What I read was: “I don’t like the way things are going, but I can’t offer any constructive input/assistance, so I’m not going to invest in the guild except for showing up for raids.” As an officer, receiving something like that would have me throwing up my hands - great, another unhappy person complaining about the situation without offering any insight on what they would like to see changed to make it better. > [@](#): > > My position may be slightly biased because of my previous experiences. Specifically, there was a time where almost every officer (myself included) was trying to convince our GM/RL to change how we were running raids, but he was stubborn and convinced he was right, and by the time he finally realized we were right and switched things up, it was too late to save the guild. If more members had come to them with their feelings, too, the guild might still exist. Sure, but be productive. “The members don’t care, the guild isn’t going to change, so I won’t bother telling you what I think might help, I’m just gonna do the bare minimum” doesn’t help the situation. A dysfunctional guild may not be fixable, but at least try to help fix it, rather than just dumping your complaints in the laps of the officers… and if you don’t care enough to try to fix it, it’s time to move on (generic “you”). IMO, YMMV, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6534 "2009-11-05T19:52:26Z")
> [@Words\_on\_the\_Interweb](#): > > Sure, but be productive. “The members don’t care, the guild isn’t going to change, so I won’t bother telling you what I think might help, I’m just gonna do the bare minimum” doesn’t help the situation. A dysfunctional guild may not be fixable, but at least try to help fix it, rather than just dumping your complaints in the laps of the officers… and if you don’t care enough to try to fix it, it’s time to move on (generic “you”). But TL \*\*isn’t \*\*an officer, so it’s not TL’s \*\*job \*\*to fix the problem or even offer suggestions on how to do so. IMO, if you don’t like people telling you that they don’t like something without offering a way to fix it… stop being an officer. ---
**Author:** ![Jbone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@Jbone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jbone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6535 "2009-11-05T20:11:22Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But TL \*\*isn’t \*\*an officer, so it’s not TL’s \*\*job \*\*to fix the problem or even offer suggestions on how to do so. IMO, if you don’t like people telling you that they don’t like something without offering a way to fix it… stop being an officer. I agree here. I would see a whisper like that to an officer as a last resort - meaning I’ve mentioned it many times and no one seems to have addressed the issue. There have been issues from time to time that arose before I was an officer. I would throw in my opinion the matter as I was one of the most experienced players in the guild, but that would be it. It would be up to them to make a decision and how to enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6536 "2009-11-05T20:16:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > BS+JC is godly for everyone. I have JC but I can’t be bothered to level up BS because it is just too painful gathering all the mats. Well, my naive thinking way back last year when I started my Ret Pally was simply “Mine for the mats, BS my gear, and all is good.” But a year later, with both professions maxed, I now realized that I can virtually race through the JC ladder when the mats have been mined. There maybe quite some time to hunt down the JC recipes, but I think picking Mining early on wasn’t a mistake after all…just a means to an end. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6537 "2009-11-05T20:30:35Z")
Oh, absolutely–trying to level BS+JC without a Miner would be hellish. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6538 "2009-11-05T20:39:02Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Oh, absolutely–trying to level BS+JC without a Miner would be hellish. Or an 80. I mean, my god, I used to think a stack of ore for 40 gold was outrageous. Now it’s, like, 10 minutes work. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6539 "2009-11-05T21:07:56Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > There have been cases of PvP weapons having BiS stats, but that’s generally not true. PvP weapons will be itemized for PvP with resilience and stam. using some of the stat budget that would have been used for other useful-for-PvE stats. > > On preview, I see that Mehkazzio covered this. I am specifically looking at weapons for resto druids and RAWR lists several PVP staves at the top of the list. The items I am looking at do not have resilience. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/6540 "2009-11-05T21:20:19Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The scarabs have never been a problem, AFAIK. We certainly tend to faceroll straight through everyone on regular. Your current guild was probably already past that content when you joined it. Anubarak requires a relatively high level of DPS output for a prolonged period of time. We only have one tank that makes it to every raid, we have one weak healer that makes it into every raid (she is going out with the MT) and half our DPS has trouble breaking 4K DPS for Anubarak 25. With that said, there is no drama, noone whines about constantly wiping on Anubarak and Mimiron (we pretty much get everything done Tuesday and Wednesday night and then spend the rest of the week wiping on Mimiron and Anubarak). With that said I wish we had more people to choose from, our class distribution sux. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=326) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=328)