# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 375
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7481 "2009-12-09T04:42:52Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > My group ripped through Forge of Souls and Pit of Saron (one wipe each instance), but we were unable to zone into the Halls of Reflection. ☹ Yay server screwups. From the channel chat, it sounded like a lot of people were having that problem. What I’m wondering is how doable these instances are by people geared in heroic-level gears, primarily 187-200 stuff. I’ve got mostly 200 gear in my healing set, the other players in my group were at least slightly better geared than me, and I still had to haul ass on the healing. (It wasn’t as bad as the night our tank dropped connection right as Cyanigosa showed up in Violet Hold and I healed the DPS through the fight, but still pretty rough.) Logically, the fact that they’re in the Random Dungeon lineup suggests that they shouldn’t be that much harder than most other heroics, otherwise they’d just screw new 80s. But H ToC is considered a step above the other heroics, and these seem to be considered a step above H ToC, not least because they drop ilevel 232 gear. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7482 "2009-12-09T04:46:30Z")
So this is as good a place to share as any (if it hasn’t been, I’m not reading 150 pages). [Every achievement](http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96488-Taiwan-Player-Beats-World-of-Warcraft). Yes. Somebody [beat WoW](http://tw.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Wrathbringer&cn=%E5%B0%8F%E7%81%B0&gn=%E7%A5%9E%E6%A8%A3). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7483 "2009-12-09T05:36:38Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Shouldn’t be physically possible, unless you did something to attract their attention while they ran by the first time. Did you buff the DK as he ran past? Did you have some AOE attack (not just a ground effect like Consecrate–any ability designed to hit more than one target could do it)? When I’m in single combat with a similar-level, non-elite mob (in this case, the mob and I were both level 71), I have a pretty standard rotation: Hand of Reckoning \> Judgement of Whicheveroneiuse \> Crusader Strike \> Divine Storm \> another Crusader Strike if it comes off cooldown and the mob still isn’t dead \> Hammer of Wrath. That usually does it for most mobs. The only multi-target ability in there is Divine Storm, and in this particular case I’d already used it and it was on cooldown before and while the train was passing me. The DK and his whole train zipped on by me, completely ignoring me, and then they all jumped me on their way back a couple seconds later. I’m pretty sure I never got in a second Divine Storm on the original mob I was fighting - I’d already killed a large number of those vrykul and none of them needed a second DS. > [@](#): > > Slightly less chill-inducing: If you haven’t read it yet, go check out the comments section of Kolo’s [Wowhead](http://www.wowhead.com)page. There’s a hilarious exchange someone wrote between Kolo and Yogg. I remember reading that a while back. My favorite part of the whole exchange: Yogg-Saron: Can you, like, buff yourself to do double damage, or have twice as much health or something? Kologarn: I AM VERY LARGE. Yogg-Saron: Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7484 "2009-12-09T05:44:26Z")
Huh. When I’m playing my pally, I don’t bother with Divine Storm unless I am dealing with a crowd. My rotation’s roughly similar, except it’s HoR\>Judgment\>Exorcism (when Art of War procs, which is like always)\>Crusader Strike\>repeat as necessary. Oh hey, thought. Were you using Seal of Command? It attacks two enemies, so it might have tagged one of the trained mobs on their way past you. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7485 "2009-12-09T07:53:31Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Huh. When I’m playing my pally, I don’t bother with Divine Storm unless I am dealing with a crowd. My rotation’s roughly similar, except it’s HoR\>Judgment\>Exorcism (when Art of War procs, which is like always)\>Crusader Strike\>repeat as necessary. Oh yeah, forgot Exorcism. I throw that in when I can, though not every time. > [@](#): > > Oh hey, thought. Were you using Seal of Command? It attacks two enemies, so it might have tagged one of the trained mobs on their way past you. Hmm. Yeah, I do use SoC on this pally. When you say it attacks two enemies, do you mean with every attack, or just when I use a judgement? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7486 "2009-12-09T09:18:54Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Yay! 3.3! > > …Boo, addon updates! :mad: tell me about it, my ct bar mods are not working properly, the rep bar and the pet bar will not move to where I want them put :mad::mad::mad: Although I like the new map screen with the quest log and target areas for quests … I was in one zone in northrend where I had about 7 quests and one of my dailies, and it numbered and showed where everything was for each quest. Very nice, Quasi will like it. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7487 "2009-12-09T09:36:40Z")
> [@Jbone](#): > > I don’t personally. I don’t charge for my services, or expect a tip for anything I do. I’m simply looking at it from the perspective of the profession. If a tank joins a group and have 4 uncut gems and there’s a jewelcrafter in the group; is he expected to cut the gems so the tank can get +30 stam instead of +24 in his chestpiece. Should a tailor have to make new leggings for a clothing after turning the frostweave they’ve collected into bolts for them? After all, it doesn’t cost anything for the one who has the profession and it only takes a few seconds. > In a perfect world, yes, it would be that simple, but in reality it doesn’t work that way. Well cutting gems or making gear has variables which the code can’t handle as easily, DE-ing is the same for whatever you pick up. > [@Jbone](#): > > As I mentioned, I don’t charge for my services and never expect anything in return, I’m just looking at it as an “outsider” looking in. Enchanters don’t have a little say in the use of their ability; they have absolutely 0. Of course it doesn’t cost anything for the enchanter, there are a lot of profession abilities that don’t cost anything. > > I think I might be explaining this wrong or giving off the wrong vibe here. In fact, I do not charge anything for my services(Enchanting, Disenchanting, Smelting bars, Cooking, etc), nor do I ever advertise “my service - your mats + tips”, I do not charge for feasts or ask for tips for buffs or anything like that. I think that’s the norm, everyone just does it. But taking the use of a profession’s key ability and giving it to everyone is going to hurt that profession. Enchanting mats are going to drop down in price which, in turn, will make the profitability of the profession decline. I guess we’ll see what happens in the next week or two, but I really can’t see being an enchanter that appealing. > > /I’m really not an a-hole guys; I’m just looking at it from a different perspective I don’t understand why it is less appealing to be an enchanter? You’ll be wanted in PUGs for this extra ability you can bring to the group. And it isn’t giving enchanting to everyone it is giving it to the people you’ve (generic you not you personally) just had a shared experience with, if you don’t run instances you’ll never experience this. Anyway we’ll see how this works out in the long run, if mats plummet in price I’ll have to agree with you that it harms the game, why level up Enchanting?? ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7488 "2009-12-09T09:44:55Z")
Grats to all. I managed to pop on to wow for only about 20 minutes last night but what a productive 20 minutes it was, fished for a bit to get from skill 345 to 350 then picked up the following achievements: Grand Master Fisherman Grand Master Cook Skills to Pay the Bills Grand Master in First Aid Working Day and Night Professional Grand Master Nice. Not only was it productive but damn it was expensive, dropped over 200g just doing this training. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7489 "2009-12-09T13:34:39Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > So this is as good a place to share as any (if it hasn’t been, I’m not reading 150 pages). > > [Every achievement](http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96488-Taiwan-Player-Beats-World-of-Warcraft). Yes. Somebody [beat WoW](http://tw.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Wrathbringer&cn=%E5%B0%8F%E7%81%B0&gn=%E7%A5%9E%E6%A8%A3). Someone posted it a week or two ago, but yeah. Definitely mind-boggling. I’ve now been through the Soul Forge. Definitely fun, definitely much more challenging than a normal heroic; not sure if it’s much harder than H ToC. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7490 "2009-12-09T13:59:01Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Hmm. Yeah, I do use SoC on this pally. When you say it attacks two enemies, do you mean with every attack, or just when I use a judgement? Every single-target attack that procs Seal of Command (hence melee-only attacks, I believe) chains onto a second enemy; this includes auto-attacks, Judgments, and Crusader Strike. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7491 "2009-12-09T14:04:03Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > tell me about it, my ct bar mods are not working properly, the rep bar and the pet bar will not move to where I want them put :mad::mad::mad: There’s a 3.3 version up on [ctmod.net](http://ctmod.net). Works great. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7492 "2009-12-09T14:28:21Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Every single-target attack that procs Seal of Command (hence melee-only attacks, I believe) chains onto a second enemy; this includes auto-attacks, Judgments, and Crusader Strike. Probably worth mentioning that it’s only the Seal damage that chains onto the second target, not the full attack damage. A Cleave on every hit would just be nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7493 "2009-12-09T14:32:08Z")
Logged on briefly last night, found the new instance and raid portals, but didn’t have time to run anything. Noticed my mount-management addon is broken but Curse didn’t have an update for it. BURNING DOG LEGION: Tonight is our normally scheduled classic dungeon run (Dire Maul West). I’m tempted to bag it so I can do the new dungeons with my 80, but my buddy Mordrin doesn’t have an 80 and would be left out. I kind of feel bad cancelling on him. So for now it’s still on, but I’ll understand if you guys want to play your 80’s instead. Hopefully the new Dungeon Finder will enable us to find a whole party. Unless I can convince Mordrin to take the night off 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7494 "2009-12-09T15:08:57Z")
I am very pleased with the new group finder. As most of my playtime is very early morning I seldom got to do 5-mans because of the difficulty of getting a group. Just did three in an hour and half, longest wait to get a group together was 5 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7495 "2009-12-09T15:44:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I am very pleased with the new group finder. > > As most of my playtime is very early morning I seldom got to do 5-mans because of the difficulty of getting a group. Just did three in an hour and half, longest wait to get a group together was 5 minutes. Oh, yes. Previous play sessions have looked like: log in; go into LFG and sign up for 3 heroics; spend about an hour and a half doing daily quests; then just as I’m about to log off, get a tell saying “want to DPS (whatever)?” and have to say “no, don’t have time.” It still took about ten minutes to get into a group last night as a solo dps, but still that’s a hell of an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7496 "2009-12-09T16:21:37Z")
**Where have my buffs gone?** Logged into the game yesterday, discovered XPerl was hopelessly borked, turned it off to use the default raid frames–but my buffs (and debuffs) were gone. Ones I cast, ones cast on me…nowhere to be found. I checked the “Interface” page and turned on everything even remotely connected to buffs, but…no buffs. Found an alpha version of XPerl that seems to work, but even after turning on all the “buff” stuff that I had turned on before (and a bit more for good measure)…no buffs. And to make matters worse, half the time XPerl doesn’t even show my _target_ when I tell it to. This is going to make raiding tonight very difficult if I can’t even see what I’m hitting. Anyone else having this problem? The target thing I can fix by using the default UI (ugh, but at least it works). The buff thing has got me stumped. ---
**Author:** ![Jbone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@Jbone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jbone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7497 "2009-12-09T17:49:02Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Even if you can still trade items with others of your realm (and I’m not sure that’s the case), that still ignores the possbility that a chanter would WANT to DE the items for everyone, which is the case of all of my friends who are chanters. None of them are angry that their prof is being “hijacked.” In a choice between “DE for everybody” and “DE for nobody,” they’d rather go with the former and just accept that a few assholes will get DEs that don’t deserve them, rather than risk good players missing out on DEs they happily would have given. > > DE’d mats are almost \*\*always \*\*worth more than the vendor price (and are certainly quite useful), so it’s really not “no harm, no foul” to have no way to DE items. A group without and enchanter could be considered the “minimum”. There would be no disenchanting option and they would have to need/greed for it and vendor the item if no one needed it. The group isn’t hindered by running without and enchanter. Having an enchanter along is a bonus to that minimum group. Now they can DE the items and hopefully the mats will still be worth more than the item itself. Removing the DE option, regardless if there’s an enchanter or not, does not penalize the group - they can still vendor the item; hence no harm done in removing it. The biggest problem I see now is setting loot rules to begin with. One of our group members kept needing on everything while the rest greeded. She said “Need if you need it”, which I guess is obvious so it’s out own fault that we didn’t need on the 22-slot bag. I did manage to pick up some new tanking shoulders though, which is nice. > [@Bosstone](#): > > First try at Forge of Souls. > > First wipe: Second trash group. > Second wipe: First boss (Bronjahm) outlasted us because the DPS wasn’t shooting down the Soul Fragments. > Third wipe: First boss cast his room-wide AOE. I misread the boss tactics and thought you had to be 15+ feet AWAY from him, not WITHIN that range. :smack: > Fourth wipe: …There was no fourth wipe, because the instance server crashed before we could try again. ☹ I logged on to a 12,000 latency in Dalaran. After a long time and severeal attempts the latency managed to die down to around 2500, which is just barely manageable. I immediately jumped into the lfg option, hpping that once inside the lag would die out. I found a group for the first new dungeon, Forge of Souls. It was a breeze since 2 of the people have played on the PTR. Bronjahm was frickin’ hilarious, I loved to hear his voice and sounds he made. We pretty much just pounded our way through. My lag was still almost 1000 so a lot of the fights were kind of jerky. We made it all the way to the end of Halls of Reflection with only 2 wipes. Once at the end of Pit of Saron, and once during the bosses in Halls of Reflection. As soon as we kicked of the Lich King “run for your life” part, we all DCed. I was unable to log back in for a good 20 minutes. Oddly enough, I was able to log into my other characters and see and whisper to my main who it said was still in Halls of Reflection. After it reset, our group was lost. Two of the people were from my server so we grouped up, but it would not let us enter the instance or continue teleport in. I really hope you don’t have to complete all of them in order again. P.S. Anyone else notice a large amount of bop epics drop on trash? We had at least 2 pieces drop during the night. > [@Bosstone](#): > > What I’m wondering is how doable these instances are by people geared in heroic-level gears, primarily 187-200 stuff. I’ve got mostly 200 gear in my healing set, the other players in my group were at least slightly better geared than me, and I still had to haul ass on the healing. (It wasn’t as bad as the night our tank dropped connection right as Cyanigosa showed up in Violet Hold and I healed the DPS through the fight, but still pretty rough.) > > Logically, the fact that they’re in the Random Dungeon lineup suggests that they shouldn’t be that much harder than most other heroics, otherwise they’d just screw new 80s. But H ToC is considered a step above the other heroics, and these seem to be considered a step above H ToC, not least because they drop ilevel 232 gear. I’m kind of curious as to how the grouping mechanism works as well. Maybe it is gear score related? I did 3 separate lfg options - H DTK, H ToC, and H Forge of Souls. Every group was great and we had 0 problems. I have an a gear score of ~2600 so a similarly geared group should fly through most things. > [@martu](#): > > I don’t understand why it is less appealing to be an enchanter? You’ll be wanted in PUGs for this extra ability you can bring to the group. And it isn’t giving enchanting to everyone it is giving it to the people you’ve (generic you not you personally) just had a shared experience with, if you don’t run instances you’ll never experience this. > > Anyway we’ll see how this works out in the long run, if mats plummet in price I’ll have to agree with you that it harms the game, why level up Enchanting?? With the new lfg system I never waited more than 5 seconds for it to find me a group. I literally hit the search and before I could close the window it said it found me a group. I’m a tank/healer though so I’m not sure if the wait is longer for dps. I still have a feeling that the material prices will be dropping. I went to log on my banking toon last night to find that somehow he had been ported back to the dwarf starting area when i had him parked in Ironforge (that’s a long run back!) so I didn’t check any prices yet. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7498 "2009-12-09T17:54:18Z")
> [@Jbone](#): > > With the new lfg system I never waited more than 5 seconds for it to find me a group. I literally hit the search and before I could close the window it said it found me a group. I’m a tank/healer though so I’m not sure if the wait is longer for dps. Definitely longer for DPS - closer to 5 minutes. But that’s only fair - there’s a limited supply of tanks and healers relative to DPS, and no automatic matching system is going to change that. (It probably exacerbates it, because now DPS’s at least know they’ll eventually get a group). ---
**Author:** ![Jbone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@Jbone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jbone)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7499 "2009-12-09T17:57:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Definitely longer for DPS - closer to 5 minutes. But that’s only fair - there’s a limited supply of tanks and healers relative to DPS, and no automatic matching system is going to change that. (It probably exacerbates it, because now DPS’s at least know they’ll eventually get a group). Good to know. I had a feeling there was probably a longer wait for dps. Still 5-10 from first looking to zoning in with a full group is nice. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/7500 "2009-12-09T18:18:07Z")
Wait…we can now PUG instances with people from other realms? Wow. That’s gonna be interesting. (I haven’t been on in a couple of days.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=374) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=376)