# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 422
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8421 "2010-01-15T20:47:35Z")
What’s the cap for crit rating? (I doubt my latest 80 is close to any caps.) Kharduuk \> Misha (spelling?) server \> horde. Should see an Orc Rogue. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8422 "2010-01-15T20:56:38Z")
Although this is over 3 years old and probably most of you have seen it, I just watched it for the first time…[South Park - Make Love, Not Warcraft.](http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103797/) Reminds me of all the gankers out there. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8423 "2010-01-15T20:57:51Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Yup. You’d mentioned that they wouldn’t always come back when they moved on to other areas, and I was commenting on the fact that it can be really hard to do so. Taking half an hour or more round-trip to help someone else for five minutes in an area that won’t give you experience anymore, when you might only have an hour or so to play… Well, it can be more of a time commitment than most people can afford. > > Oh?\* > Well… > > “Oh. I hadn’t fully divined your attitude towards the tenants” > > (for **SFG** only!---- “abattoir”----- heh!)\* > > Figures you’d go with the prettyboy! 😃 > > _The Orc was just too slow and lumbering.. and ugly. (Sorry Orcs!)_ > > Welcome to The Wonderful World of Vehicles. If you look at the controls on your bubble-floating-eye-thing, you’ll see that you have several abilities. Here’s what you want to do. > > 1.) Look for one of the locations with the red arrow above it. > 2.) Look at your new abilities. There’s one that lets you summon ghouls. There’s also one that collects information about a location. > 3.) Get close down over the location with the arrow. > 4.) Click (or press the key for) the ability to summon ghouls. This will bring up a green targeting circle, like for the bombing quests. Click again to summon a bunch of ghouls to that location. The ghouls will attack the people who are attacking you, distracting them. > 5.) Click (or press the key for) the ability to gather information. > 6.) You should finish getting the information right around the time your last ghoul is gone. Quickly hold down your spacebar to get altitude and break combat. > 7.) Lather, rinse, repeat for the other locations. When you’re done, look for the ability that returns you to Acherus, and click it or hit its key. And thanks for the above! Q ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8424 "2010-01-15T21:01:31Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > What’s the cap for crit rating? (I doubt my latest 80 is close to any caps.) > > Kharduuk \> Misha (spelling?) server \> horde. Should see an Orc Rogue. [WoW Rogue Crit Cap Calculator](http://wow.filltheglass.org/crit_cap.php) ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8425 "2010-01-15T21:02:44Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > What’s the cap for crit rating? (I doubt my latest 80 is close to any caps.) > > Kharduuk \> Misha (spelling?) server \> horde. Should see an Orc Rogue. I don’t think there is a cap for crit. The only thing limiting you is the gear you find/use. ETA: Is there crit cap for Ret Pallies? ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8426 "2010-01-15T21:09:40Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > What’s the cap for crit rating? (I doubt my latest 80 is close to any caps.) > > Kharduuk \> Misha (spelling?) server \> horde. Should see an Orc Rogue. It really shouldn’t be anything you have to worry about, however in theory(due to the table based attack rolls WoW use) you can end up with a crit cap at 26% _for white hits_, but that really is a worst case scenario and just moving behind the raid boss in that case will increase the cap to 42%, adding things like hit rating and expertise will increase it further. And once again this a worst case scenario and it applies to white hits only. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8427 "2010-01-15T21:11:30Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > [WoW Rogue Crit Cap Calculator](http://wow.filltheglass.org/crit_cap.php) Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8428 "2010-01-15T21:13:33Z")
> [@Yeticus\_Rex](#): > > ETA: Is there crit cap for Ret Pallies? Hard to tell since I’m limited to cached versions of pages while searching from work, but [this FAQ](http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-paladin/patch-3-2-retribution-paladin-faq/) seems to suggest there isn’t. However, a post in [this thread](http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18697258654&sid=1) says: > [@](#): > > Crit only becomes worthless when you reach the “Crit Cap” that is, if you are hit and expertise capped (which pushes Miss and Dodge off the attack table). > > This is where it gets sketchy, because at this point theoretically the crit cap becomes 100% because crit pushes normal attacks off the table, and you have up to 100% chance for normal attacks at the point of being Hit and Expertise Capped. HOWEVER there are glancing blows (about a 25% chance to do 70% damage). > > Glancing blows take precedence over Critical Strikes, so if you are Hit and Expertise Capped, your Crit Cap is 76%. Ret Paladins don’t have to worry about this, as well as DW classes in the main hand. However if you have a Rogue offhand with only talents (21% Miss in OH) plus glancing blow chance, your Crit Cap suddenly becomes 55%. But it is much easier for Rogues, Enhance Shamans, Fury Warriors and DW DKs (lol) to get there. > > And then another wrench in the machine, this only applies to white hits. > > TL;DR: Paladins don’t worry about Crit Cap. This seems to be a few months old, though, and stuff changes all the time, so take with a grain of salt and maybe Google some more if you’re at a place that isn’t filtered like mine. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8429 "2010-01-15T21:13:34Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > It really shouldn’t be anything you have to worry about, however in theory(due to the table based attack rolls WoW use) you can end up with a crit cap at 26% _for white hits_, but that really is a worst case scenario and just moving behind the raid boss in that case will increase the cap to 42%, adding things like hit rating and expertise will increase it further. And once again this a worst case scenario and it applies to white hits only. Sorry… what’s a White Hit? Physical (non spell or non poison) damage only? Those generated by auto attacks? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8430 "2010-01-15T21:15:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Sorry… what’s a White Hit? Physical (non spell or non poison) damage only? Those generated by auto attacks? “White” hits are physical auto-attacks that do no added physical or magical damage. They’re called such because the numbers show up as white in your combat text, versus yellow for a special ability. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8431 "2010-01-15T21:16:12Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Sorry… what’s a White Hit? Physical (non spell or non poison) damage only? Those generated by auto attacks? Yes, auto attacks are often referred to as White Hits or White Damage. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8432 "2010-01-15T22:17:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Hard to tell since I’m limited to cached versions of pages while searching from work, but [this FAQ](http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-paladin/patch-3-2-retribution-paladin-faq/) seems to suggest there isn’t. However, a post in [this thread](http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=18697258654&sid=1) says: Thanks for the links… I am now officially hit and expertise capped (SoV glyph adds 10 exp). My crit is above 30% and my strength is approaching 2k. I actually feel that I can contribute as long as my fingers don’t trip over each other. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8433 "2010-01-15T22:45:23Z")
That’s always the tricky part, isn’t it? 😃 Fury has pretty much a three-button rotation (BT, WW, BT, instant Slam if procced), versus the Arms trickle-down priority of Rend \> Execute \> Overpower \> MS \> Slam, and even so I spent quite a bit of time on a dummy yesterday night (okay, early this morning) trying to get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8434 "2010-01-15T23:27:31Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > That’s always the tricky part, isn’t it? 😃 Fury has pretty much a three-button rotation (BT, WW, BT, instant Slam if procced), versus the Arms trickle-down priority of Rend \> Execute \> Overpower \> MS \> Slam, and even so I spent quite a bit of time on a dummy yesterday night (okay, early this morning) trying to get used to it. What kind of DPS hit do you take by throwing Sunder Armor out there (if you don’t have a warrior tank, of course)? I feel that this would really help all of our physical DPS (3 hunters, 3 rogues, 1 warrior) in 25s (where we don’t have a warrior tank) but got a little bit of push-back from said warrior. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8435 "2010-01-15T23:48:13Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > What kind of DPS hit do you take by throwing Sunder Armor out there (if you don’t have a warrior tank, of course)? I feel that this would really help all of our physical DPS (3 hunters, 3 rogues, 1 warrior) in 25s (where we don’t have a warrior tank) but got a little bit of push-back from said warrior. Although I don’t have the specific numbers, Sunder Armor generates a lot of aggro, I think more than an equivalent attack would. Even with the threat reduction a DPS warrior would have, I imagine it’d be dangerous for them to be causing so much, which is probably why your Warrior was reticent about it. It’s also Rage spent that doesn’t directly translate into damage; I’m willing to bet (but also willing to be proven wrong) that the damage a Warrior can cause with that 15 Rage is more effective than the extra damage 4% armor reduction would allow. The 15 Rage is considered a fair trade for both the armor reduction _and_ threat generation; remove one and the ability becomes inefficient. All that, plus a DPS Warrior isn’t going to generate nearly as much Rage as a tank Warrior would, and it’s probably Rage that could be better spent on other abilities. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8436 "2010-01-15T23:54:46Z")
Damn, one more ETA that came in after the edit window: There is Devastate, which is a damaging Sunder Armor, but as of 3.2 it requires a shield, which no self-respecting DPS would be caught dead carrying. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8437 "2010-01-16T00:20:48Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Although I don’t have the specific numbers, Sunder Armor generates a lot of aggro, I think more than an equivalent attack would. Even with the threat reduction a DPS warrior would have, I imagine it’d be dangerous for them to be causing so much, which is probably why your Warrior was reticent about it. > > It’s also Rage spent that doesn’t directly translate into damage; I’m willing to bet (but also willing to be proven wrong) that the damage a Warrior can cause with that 15 Rage is more effective than the extra damage 4% armor reduction would allow. The 15 Rage is considered a fair trade for both the armor reduction _and_ threat generation; remove one and the ability becomes inefficient. > > All that, plus a DPS Warrior isn’t going to generate nearly as much Rage as a tank Warrior would, and it’s probably Rage that could be better spent on other abilities. Sunder Armor lowers armour by 4% _per application_ and stacks five times with a 30 second duration. So once you’ve got the initial stack applied it only needs to be used once every 30 seconds. With 7 physical damage dealers a 20% armour reduction will increase raid damage a lot more than a single warrior can do with 1 gcd+15 rage once every 30 seconds. Threat would only be an issue when doing the initial stacking and even then just spamming Sunder Armor in Berserker or Battle stance will generate far less threat than going all out dps when you’re capable of 5k+. On preveiw: Devastate is a prot talent so if someone has that he’ll be tanking. 🙂 But, all good warriors carry a shield in their bags and has a weapon swap macro on their bars in case they need to use Spell Reflect. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8438 "2010-01-16T00:28:38Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Sunder Armor lowers armour by 4% _per application_ and stacks five times with a 30 second duration. So once you’ve got the initial stack applied it only needs to be used once every 30 seconds. > With 7 physical damage dealers a 20% armour reduction will increase raid damage a lot more than a single warrior can do with 1 gcd+15 rage once every 30 seconds. > Threat would only be an issue when doing the initial stacking and even then just spamming Sunder Armor in Berserker or Battle stance will generate far less threat than going all out dps when you’re capable of 5k+. Could be right, I suppose, and **Guns** just doesn’t worry about it because they’ve got other Warriors in the raid. > [@](#): > > But, all good warriors carry a shield in their bags and has a weapon swap macro on their bars in case they need to use Spell Reflect. Can you do that, though? I thought weapons were fixed while in combat. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8439 "2010-01-16T00:34:07Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Can you do that, though? I thought weapons were fixed while in combat. Oooh yes, you can, weapons(and shields) is the only equipment you _can_ change in combat. Charge a paladin, equip a shield and cast Spell Reflect, hilarity ensues. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/8440 "2010-01-16T00:58:41Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > Oooh yes, you can, weapons(and shields) is the only equipment you _can_ change in combat. > > Charge a paladin, equip a shield and cast Spell Reflect, hilarity ensues. 😃 Man, I’ve been playing for a year and I still don’t know everything I ought to know about the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=421) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=423)