# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 505
**Author:** ![Daedelus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Daedelus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daedelus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10081 "2010-03-21T09:30:04Z")
> [@HenryGale](#): > > Hey all. > > When last we met, far upthread, I had returned to Wow after a 2+ year absence, having finally convinced my wife to give it a try (just try it, you’ll like it. First 30 days are free. All the cool kids are doing it) > > So, we set out, me with my rogue, and she with her druid (both of us of the purple NE persuasion because.. “look honey! We can be pretty blue elf thingies! Pretend you’re a Na’vi.”) Flash forward to today, where we have both dinged 45 and are currently questing Tanaris. > > All’s well. I get to game whenever I want because now my wife actually asks ME if I want to play. "Well sure, honey, I guess so… " So, everything is as it should be, right? > > Yes. Except… > > Except she’s sorta kicking my ass. > > I’m playing an assasin build and she’s boomkin, just got her moonkin form a few levels ago. I’m tracking our damage with Recount, and we were pretty much 50/50 until a few levels ago. But now, I can’t keep up! My non-gamer wife is averaging about 60-65% of the damage, anywhere from 30-50 DPS higher than me, and boy is she loving it. 🙂 > > Be my secret weapon, guys. I’d rather not go combat build, but I just tweaked my talents, and spent about 150g buying a sword, teaching myself to open with daggers for Ambush and then switching to a sword in my main, but I didn’t gain much ground. > > Are we rogues just not the damage dealers we’re made out to be (at this level maybe?) or have I somehow nerfed myself? > > I’m on armory here: [http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Fizzcrank&cn=Odamon](http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Fizzcrank&cn=Odamon) > > thx in advance! I’m sorry to laugh at your predicament, but it is rather humorous. I’ll make it up to you by trying to help. If you’ve decided to pick up a sword, then you really need to bite the bullet and go Combat. It’s an easier spec to level with, especially if you’re questing (no tank to really keep the mobs off you, unless you let your wife tank them, but if she’s doing that she’s doing more damage than you are). Assassination builds rely on Mutilate for their damage, and you don’t have the talent points for that yet. A question for you is also what poisons you are using on your weapons, as that is a large part of rogue damage. I know you don’t want to go Combat, but it is probably the best build to level with, and if you really want to out-DPS your wife at those levels using a sword in a Combat build will be your best bet. Also, if you’re switching your weapons, then you lose a GCD between your Ambush and your next ability. I would suggest saving Ambush for instances, and just using Sinister Strike to build Combo Points, keeping Slice and Dice up at all costs, and using whatever finishers you have available to you after that (Eviscerate, most likely). If you plan on sticking with Assassination, then I suggest you get rid of your expensive sword and get a dagger again. Always use Deadly/Instant Poison and just wait until you can use Mutilate, as it’s amazing. Mutilate to build CPs, keep up SnD, and finish with Envenom. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Runestar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@Runestar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Runestar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10082 "2010-03-21T22:42:35Z")
So I took the advice a couple of pages back, and respec’d Gnocchi the Gnome warrior from Fury to Arms. It does seem to make a difference DPS-wise. Even though I’m now just wielding a single 2H weapon (instead of dual 2H weapons thru the Fury’s Titan’s Grip ability), I seem to be doing more/better damage. I found what seems to be a good Arms talent spec on the web, and used that to reallocate my points. Ran three instances today - Halls of Stone, Halls of Lightning, and one of the Utgardes - and felt that I was doing my share this time around. Seems like with the Arms abilities, either Overpower or Execute is almost always proc’ing, and if they aren’t than Mortal Strike is almost always off cooldown. So it’s time to start amassing those Emblems! ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10083 "2010-03-22T07:51:33Z")
I’ve been playing my warlock quite a bit the last couple days, and today I obtained my succubus! However … I’ve quickly reached the conclusion that the succubus is not intended for solo questing. I’m not sure if she simply can’t hold aggro, or if it’s that Soothing Kiss ability of hers that’s the problem, but whatever it is it seems that I can send her in, and the instant I cast _anything_ on the mob I suddenly have 100% threat and the mob comes after me. So I’ve gone back to my voidwalker. Advice from more experienced warlocks appreciated 🙂 Fellow BDL member _Anamorphic_ was kind enough to have his troll priest, Dunwich, meet Hexpot in Tranquillien and help her kill Luzran and Knucklerot and then kill Dhar’kan, so that I got my Exalted rep with Tranquillien (allowing me to buy that sweet cloak from the quartermaster) and claim a cool staff as my reward for killing Dhar’kan. I wanted to get the staff while it was still useful to me, but killing Dhar’kan was a 5-man quest and I didn’t want to leave it until I over-leveled it (at which point the staff would be useless). ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10084 "2010-03-22T08:49:16Z")
Dinged up to 49 now. I think the quest lines in Searing Gorge have dried up. loved the kill em with sleep deprivation quest, where you nick all their pillows. I have also done a few in Hinterlands. Where would you recommend for a lvl 49 Alliance warrior? ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10085 "2010-03-22T10:12:38Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’ve been playing my warlock quite a bit the last couple days, and today I obtained my succubus! However … > > I’ve quickly reached the conclusion that the succubus is not intended for solo questing. I’m not sure if she simply can’t hold aggro, or if it’s that Soothing Kiss ability of hers that’s the problem, but whatever it is it seems that I can send her in, and the instant I cast _anything_ on the mob I suddenly have 100% threat and the mob comes after me. So I’ve gone back to my voidwalker. Advice from more experienced warlocks appreciated 🙂 Grats on the succy – fell in love with he yet? Maybe that’s just me _cough_ No she can’t hold threat she is there just to deal damage (highest DPS pet apart from maybe the Felguard) and\or crowd control with Seduction. She’s very good if you’re tanking yourself (drain tanking), running with a group or doing a lot of PvP. I healed my first Heroic (UK) on my Pally and it wasn’t a complete failure. The tank died but I was drinking at the time so not my fault in my eyes, he was a tank in a hurry. Now I can start to drool over the emblem gear, decisions, decisions…. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10086 "2010-03-22T10:18:07Z")
> [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > Dinged up to 49 now. I think the quest lines in Searing Gorge have dried up. > > loved the kill em with sleep deprivation quest, where you nick all their pillows. > > I have also done a few in Hinterlands. Where would you recommend for a lvl 49 Alliance warrior? I went to Un’Goro Crater and Felwood at 50-ish on my pally, nice change of scenery in Kalimdor and an opportunity to pick up flight points before you hit Outland and have little desire to come back to vanilla. ---
**Author:** ![MindWanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@MindWanderer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindWanderer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10087 "2010-03-22T12:47:46Z")
I’m at 48 on my rogue, and I’ve been rather bored with questing. I’ve been running a lot of Arathi basin, but I just checked and all the pvp rewards I can get at 48 are worse than the gear I already have on, so I guess I will save those tokens for later. I’m eager to try out AV. I’ve never really done any of the quests in AV, but this time I’m going to try to do them, and get to 58 by PVPing in there. I think the random dungeon tool is broken. I’ve ended up in Maraudon the last 5 times I’ve entered the queue. I am no longer lost in that place, at least. I recently switched from Subtlety to Combat, and despite thinking that I would be bored, I’m really liking combat spec. I picked up the Inventor’s Sword from the goblin in Maraudon, and I had a mace already, so after skilling those weapon types up, I’ve been rocking out with my blade fury and slice and dice. Even in pvp I’ve been much more successful in Combat spec. I was queued up for AB the other day, and I was on the zeppelin headed from Undercity to Orgrimmar. It had just started moving and was away from the platform when I got the invite to AB, which you can’t accept while on the zeppelin. So I jumped off, and I was sure I would die, but I got that falling and not dying achievement instead. I also learned you can’t accept a BG invite while in mid-air. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10088 "2010-03-22T13:17:31Z")
Hit 80 (again) Friday night. I have since begun the long and insane process of achieving Loremaster. I’m doing quests about 5 times as fast as if I were at-level and I already don’t want to even look at Barrens anymore… ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10089 "2010-03-22T15:02:21Z")
Grats on all the achievments, milestones, etc. I joined an ICC10 pug on Friday night and got to Festergut. We probably could have gotten him down in one or two more tries but by that time it was getting late. Still, it was the farthest progression I had done (got to Saurfang on 25 a while back) so that was fun, even if I came away empty-handed gearwise. Oh, except for the lowest ICC ring for hitting Friendly with AV. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’ve been playing my warlock quite a bit the last couple days, and today I obtained my succubus! However … > > I’ve quickly reached the conclusion that the succubus is not intended for solo questing. I’m not sure if she simply can’t hold aggro, or if it’s that Soothing Kiss ability of hers that’s the problem, but whatever it is it seems that I can send her in, and the instant I cast _anything_ on the mob I suddenly have 100% threat and the mob comes after me. So I’ve gone back to my voidwalker. Advice from more experienced warlocks appreciated 🙂 The Succubus does great DPS but isn’t going to hold aggro. The way to use her is to use your Drain Life on the mob, so you are gaining health faster than it can damage you while your succubus burns him down. On my lock I used my VW for a long time after getting the succubus, but eventually (around level 50) I was doing too much damage for even my VW to hold aggro. At that point it just makes sense to use the succubus since you will be taking aggro anyway. > [@MindWanderer](#): > > I think the random dungeon tool is broken. I’ve ended up in Maraudon the last 5 times I’ve entered the queue. I am no longer lost in that place, at least. The last toon I levelled through that level range (my lock) did Mara every single damn time she got in the random queue. Never did ZF at all. So far that’s been the case with my pally too, although he’s just now 46. If you want to do something other than Mara you’d better queue for it specifically. Same goes with BRD later – if you want Sunken Temple, in my experience you’re not going to get it randomly. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10090 "2010-03-22T15:33:17Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > Well sometimes the health regenerates to 100% before those untensils disappear. Does he need to stay seated until they go away? The utensils just show that you’re still eating. Standing will break the buff, but if you’re already at full health, that doesn’t matter. Unless, of course, you’re eating a food that will give you a buff if you eat it for at least 10 seconds, in which case you want to stay sitting until you get your Well Fed buff, which looks like a piece of cheese. 😃 > [@Quasimodem](#): > > … is offering me a gryphon. WTF? We can’t fly yet, right? AFAIK, there are a couple of NPCs that give you loaner gryphons to fly around their zones with if you don’t yet have Cold Weather Flying. I don’t know if this is one of those guys or not. > [@Quasimodem](#): > > 5 K to fly in NR Actually, it’s 5k for \*epic _(fast, 280% speed) flying. You don’t need that extra speed to fly in Northrend, just Cold Weather Flying, which is “only” 1k gold, and available at level 77._ That one you’ll \*definitely \*want to pick up, since the higher-level zones are almost impossible to get around in if you can’t fly. \*Technically, it \*can \*be trained at a lower level, but you have to have at least one character who’s already able to train it, so that they can buy the Heirloom book. > [@Daedelus](#): > > Also, if you’re switching your weapons, then you lose a GCD between your Ambush and your next ability. Swapping weapons uses a GCD? I never noticed that. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I’ve quickly reached the conclusion that the succubus is not intended for solo questing. The only Warlock pets designed as tanks are the Voidwalker and the Felguard. Anything else doesn’t have the threat generation/armor/HP to be one–they’re meant for DPS or other kinds of utility. > [@martu](#): > > The tank died but I was drinking at the time so not my fault in my eyes, he was a tank in a hurry. As long as you made sure to note in party chat that you needed mana, yeah, that’s absolutely a tank fail. Had a similar situation in a Gnomer run on my Rogue… The healer fell over the edge, I told the tank the healer fell over the edge, and he just kept pulling, and then got all pissy when he died. :rolleyes: > [@MindWanderer](#): > > I think the random dungeon tool is broken. I’ve ended up in Maraudon the last 5 times I’ve entered the queue. It’s only somewhat random. There are all sorts of weird matching algorithms that go on in the background, and no one really knows what they are. Don’t forget, though, that if you’re sick of a particular dungeon, or if you’re looking for a specific item or to complete a quest, you can choose which dungeon(s) to queue for. Just look for the drop-down in the random matcher menu, and switch it from random to specific dungeons, then check the ones you’re interested in. The queue will usually take a bit longer, and you won’t get the bonus at the end, but it can really be worth it, especially at lower levels where the bonus is pretty negligible. > [@](#): > > I also learned you can’t accept a BG invite while in mid-air. 😃 You can’t get ported into or out of an instance when you’re jumping, either, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10091 "2010-03-22T16:17:39Z")
It’s awesome when you start getting high enough level to be really badass. My baby Druid isn’t so baby anymore, hitting 34 last night. A couple of guildmates, around levels 26-28, were running Razorfen Kraul with a PUG. They kept losing DPS, so they asked if I wanted in. So I joined as the fifth member and we all ran around doing our thing. About halfway through, the Hunter apparently got pissed at our Pally tank stopping every few spawns to drink and dropped party without comment. We thought about it, shrugged, and proceeded to 4-man the rest of the instance since I was overlevel enough that all the enemies were grey. That was fun, and made me feel all big and tough without needing to be 80. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10092 "2010-03-22T16:17:55Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hit 80 (again) Friday night. I have since begun the long and insane process of achieving Loremaster. I’m doing quests about 5 times as fast as if I were at-level and I already don’t want to even look at Barrens anymore… Tell me about it. Right now I’m leveling 2 horde toons, my troll mage and belf 'lock, who are now lvls 21 and 23 respectively. Guess where they’ve been 😛 Though the belf leveled to 20 in Ghostlands, so she isn’t needing to spend as much time in the Barrens. But I want to give the award for “Second Most Annoying Mob Sound” to “Quilboar Squealing”. (They share second place with “Angry Murloc Grggllgggng”. First place, IMO, is “Whatever You Call That Sound Troggs Make When You Hit Them” (can’t think of a suitable onomatopoeia here).) > [@Skammer](#): > > The Succubus does great DPS but isn’t going to hold aggro. The way to use her is to use your Drain Life on the mob, so you are gaining health faster than it can damage you while your succubus burns him down. > > On my lock I used my VW for a long time after getting the succubus, but eventually (around level 50) I was doing too much damage for even my VW to hold aggro. At that point it just makes sense to use the succubus since you will be taking aggro anyway. Cool. I’ll need to experiment and learn how to use her best then. Voidwalker was easy, since it seems to work much like a hunter pet. I had some difficulty with the succubus quest, starting with being confused as to why none of the 'lock trainers in SM or Org were offering me the quest. After asking questions of a higher-level 'lock in Org, I finally figured out I already had the breadcrumb quest (Talk to Carendis, or whatever it’s called) that sent me to UC, where I got the actual quest. The breadcrumb quest didn’t say anything about the succubus, so it didn’t register on my brain. The WowWiki article stoked my further confusion: > [@](#): > > The sequence of quests is quite different for Alliance and Horde warlocks, but the first quest in either one, obtainable from the warlock trainers in the major cities, is called “Devourer of Souls.” Alliance warlocks have only a 3-step sequence, but during the course of it they must travel to The Barrens, which is Horde territory; one must get there either through Ashenvale (the safest approach), Dustwallow Marsh, or via boat from Stranglethorn Vale to Ratchet. **Horde warlocks have a longer 8-step quest sequence that takes them from the Barrens to Stonetalon Mountains and back. Another Horde version of the quest, from the warlock trainer in the Undercity, has only three steps - a shorter sequence from Undercity to Silverpine Forest and Wetlands.** At the end, as usual, the warlock must defeat the Succubus in battle to earn the right to summon her. The part I’ve bolded implies that you can get the quest in more than one place, so I’m guessing that article is simply out of date. A couple observations about the quest to collect those two hearts: The first comes from a human mob who hangs out with the refugees at the Graymane Wall in Silverpine. I would imagine that’s going to change when Cataclysm comes out, what with that wall being the front door of Gilneas. I can’t see having a stream of Horde warlocks being required to attack a mob in an Alliance noob zone. Second, _dear lord, how did people get that second heart in Wetlands when they didn’t have mounts at level 20?_ To get from Silverpine to Wetlands, you have to run through Hillsbrad and then Arathi Highlands, the latter being a level 30+ zone. I almost immediately ran afoul of Lieutenant Wossname and his buddies, despite moving well off the road when I saw them coming. Fortunately, they killed me about ten yards from a graveyard, so the corpse run wasn’t bad. After that, despite staying on the road, I was pulling aggro from mobs 11+ levels above me who were themselves well off the road. If I hadn’t had my mount allowing me to outrun them, I’m pretty sure I would have died about 10 times traveling through Arathi! ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10093 "2010-03-22T16:28:35Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > A couple observations about the quest to collect those two hearts: The first comes from a human mob who hangs out with the refugees at the Graymane Wall in Silverpine. I would imagine that’s going to change when Cataclysm comes out, what with that wall being the front door of Gilneas. I can’t see having a stream of Horde warlocks being required to attack a mob in an Alliance noob zone. Second, _dear lord, how did people get that second heart in Wetlands when they didn’t have mounts at level 20?_ To get from Silverpine to Wetlands, you have to run through Hillsbrad and then Arathi Highlands, the latter being a level 30+ zone. I almost immediately ran afoul of Lieutenant Wossname and his buddies, despite moving well off the road when I saw them coming. Fortunately, they killed me about ten yards from a graveyard, so the corpse run wasn’t bad. After that, despite staying on the road, I was pulling aggro from mobs 11+ levels above me who were themselves well off the road. If I hadn’t had my mount allowing me to outrun them, I’m pretty sure I would have died about 10 times traveling through Arathi! I died once doing this myself and that was before mounts, a raptor took offence at my presence. It took a while but because I hadn’t seen these zones of wow before it wasn’t too dull for me also picked up a good few flight points on the way. I think way back in this thread (or the previous one) I moaned about the next 'lock demon quest to get the Felhunter, just you wait until that beauty. Have a book handy is all I can say it’s a lot of travelling. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10094 "2010-03-22T18:22:53Z")
I hit 70 this morning on my non-BDL main. Honestly, I never thought I’d get this high. This means that I get to equip a couple of things that I got–a mantle from being Revered with Lower City and a cape that dropped from one of the bosses in Magister’s Terrace. I’ve been rather enjoying doing PUGs lately. I think this is because I’m really, _really_ sick of questing. Outland got pretty repetitive; kill X number of Y, or, alternately, collect X number of Y that drop from Z at a ridiculously low rate. The instances are fun, though–possibly because I hardly did any while leveling to 70. Northrend’s a bit better. I like that the quests seem important now; I feel like there’s an overarching plot, which–with a few exceptions–I wasn’t really feeling before. I worry that what I’m doing in instances is too simplistic. I mean, I’m usually the lowest level person in the group, and come in #1/#2 in DPS anyway, so I guess it’s somewhat effectiveish. But, I mean. . .it’s like, for trash, A.) Wait for pallie/DK tank to put down Consecration/Death and Decay, B.) Spam Rain of Fire over the zone of death. But no one’s complained yet, so I figure I’m okay. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10095 "2010-03-22T18:43:19Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > I worry that what I’m doing in instances is too simplistic. I mean, I’m usually the lowest level person in the group, and come in #1/#2 in DPS anyway, so I guess it’s somewhat effectiveish. But, I mean. . .it’s like, for trash, A.) Wait for pallie/DK tank to put down Consecration/Death and Decay, B.) Spam Rain of Fire over the zone of death. But no one’s complained yet, so I figure I’m okay. Welcome to Lich King Dungeon-running: All AOE, all the time! Single-target attacks? Too slow! Crowd Control? What for? Throw down those big green glowing circles and let 'er rip! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10096 "2010-03-22T18:44:28Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > I hit 70 this morning on my non-BDL main. Honestly, I never thought I’d get this high. Funny how that goes, isn’t it? Keep at it long enough, though, and you’ll get there even if you take a longer road. > [@](#): > > I worry that what I’m doing in instances is too simplistic. I mean, I’m usually the lowest level person in the group, and come in #1/#2 in DPS anyway, so I guess it’s somewhat effectiveish. But, I mean. . .it’s like, for trash, A.) Wait for pallie/DK tank to put down Consecration/Death and Decay, B.) Spam Rain of Fire over the zone of death. But no one’s complained yet, so I figure I’m okay. AOE is fine (and even preferred) if that’s what your tank wants. It’ll certainly get things dead faster, assuming you’ve got a big enough pack to make it worthwhile. It’s not a problem unless (a) the tank has marked a target that needs to die first; (b) you’re constantly pulling aggro off the tank, even though they’re not marking (which is technically the tank’s fault for not marking, but you can only change your own behavior); or (c) there are \ **Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10097 "2010-03-22T19:12:08Z") Any pally tanks out there who could give me some advice? My paladin alt is now 80, and I’ve been running him through instances as ret because (a) I leveled him from 70 to 80 as ret and I’m used to it now, and (b) his tank set isn’t very good and I’m nervous about trying to tank PUGs. But now I’d really like to start (his tank set is still not that great, but it’s not completely abysmal, either). Oh–and as far as what I leveled him as before–he got from 1-60 as the second half of a dual-boxed ‘refer a friend’ team, so he essentially did nothing. I leveled him from 60-70 as Prot, but never tanked anything. Everybody tells me how easy pally tanking is compared to DK tanking (my main alt is a blood DK raid tank who does ICC25 and has the 10-man Kingslayer title, so I have the basic _concept_ of tanking down) but…help! I’ve been reading up on it and I think I get the whole ‘9696 rotation’ idea, but what I don’t get is the basic process of pally tanking (what do you start with? How do you deal with mana issues?) and also which other abilities are important enough that I need to have them readily available. It seems like I’ve got a ton of potentially useful abilities, and I feel like a 2-year-old presented with a whole table full of toys. My head asplode! So…any pally tanks out there want to give me a few pointers? Pally tanking 101? Ideally I’d like to start slow, get used to the main abilities, and then slowly add in the others. I plan on starting out with non-heroic instances (though I’ve heard there are problems with pally tanks who outgear what they’re tanking, as mana becomes an issue). I guess I shouldn’t have waited until I got to 80 to start tanking, but…there you are. I want my insta-queues. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10098 "2010-03-22T20:58:48Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > I’ve been reading up on it and I think I get the whole ‘9696 rotation’ idea, but what I don’t get is the basic process of pally tanking (what do you start with? How do you deal with mana issues?) and also which other abilities are important enough that I need to have them readily available. The “969” thing is relevant only to extended combat. Too much is made of it IMO, and it can be safely ignored outside of raid bosses. Your goal in short fights (IE- 90% of game content) is to frontload. Mana is a major concern unless you’re getting smashed (for Spiritual Attunement) or swarmed (for Blessing of Sanctuary). The key is to recognize where your big costs are: consecrate and avenger’s shield. Your best tools are the shield slam and hammer-cleave (not what they’re called, but paladin abilities are all Righteous X of Justice so names aren’t too useful either) because they’re not only very high damage, but low mana as well. Judgement is a distant third, primarily useful for being ranged and applying nice debuffs. Holy Shield is more of a defensive ability than threat. Consecrate and Avenger’s Shield are the flashy bits that everyone else recognizes but neither is all that potent for their cost - AS pays a huge mana and cooldown premium for being ranged and Consecrate is primarily useful for pre-loading damage with an out-of-melee GCD more than anything else. If you lay off of those two abilities then Divine Plea does a decent job of keeping up with your mana output. Since you’re coming from a DK, it’s probably better to cover the highlights. The really defining features of paladin tanking are the differences in the taunt abilities (RD is a unique beast and HOR can deal damage) and a slew of group support powers. While the DK is more self and offense oriented, the thing that really makes a good paladin tank is how well they use their teammate abilities. Cleanse, Salvation, Sacred Shield & Hand of Protection & Freedom are the big ones. When people talk about paladin tanking being easy, in a sense they’re right, because in terms of “point at enemy, hold aggro”, yeah, there’s less to micromanage, mainly no rune/heroic strike to babysit. But there’s more to being a good tank than holding aggro. Where DKs get positional control and warriors get enemy control, paladins instead get group support, so it’s a fairly different mindset (and UI setup) than the other tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10099 "2010-03-22T21:27:49Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > The “969” thing is relevant only to extended combat. Too much is made of it IMO, and it can be safely ignored outside of raid bosses. Your goal in short fights (IE- 90% of game content) is to frontload. That’s good to know. Yeah, this guy is primarily going to be a heroic tank. If he raids at all, it’ll be things like ToC10 and Ony, and honestly unless I get a lot more confident as a tank, I’ll probably raid as ret instead of prot. > [@](#): > > Mana is a major concern unless you’re getting smashed (for Spiritual Attunement) or swarmed (for Blessing of Sanctuary). The key is to recognize where your big costs are: consecrate and avenger’s shield. Your best tools are the shield slam and hammer-cleave (not what they’re called, but paladin abilities are all Righteous X of Justice so names aren’t too useful either) because they’re not only very high damage, but low mana as well. You’re talking about Hammer of the Righteous and Shield of Righteousness, yes? I see what you mean about the names of the ability. It makes it a little hard for noobs like me to keep straight which one is which. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Judgement is a distant third, primarily useful for being ranged and applying nice debuffs. Doesn’t judging Wisdom get you mana back? My ret pally uses that all the time, and he almost never runs out of mana. > [@](#): > > Holy Shield is more of a defensive ability than threat. Consecrate and Avenger’s Shield are the flashy bits that everyone else recognizes but neither is all that potent for their cost - AS pays a huge mana and cooldown premium for being ranged and Consecrate is primarily useful for pre-loading damage with an out-of-melee GCD more than anything else. If you lay off of those two abilities then Divine Plea does a decent job of keeping up with your mana output. Is it okay to pull with the shield and put down an initial Consecrate? Every pally tank I’ve ever seen does this, so I’m assuming you’re talking about using these abilities sparingly as the fight goes on. Yes? > [@](#): > > Since you’re coming from a DK, it’s probably better to cover the highlights. The really defining features of paladin tanking are the differences in the taunt abilities (RD is a unique beast and HOR can deal damage) and a slew of group support powers. While the DK is more self and offense oriented, the thing that really makes a good paladin tank is how well they use their teammate abilities. Cleanse, Salvation, Sacred Shield & Hand of Protection & Freedom are the big ones. When people talk about paladin tanking being easy, in a sense they’re right, because in terms of “point at enemy, hold aggro”, yeah, there’s less to micromanage, mainly no rune/heroic strike to babysit. But there’s more to being a good tank than holding aggro. Where DKs get positional control and warriors get enemy control, paladins instead get group support, so it’s a fairly different mindset (and UI setup) than the other tanks. This is the sort of thing I mean when I say I want to start slow. I mean, cleansing is easy because I’m running Decursive, so if I have time, I just click the little red box. I’ve always had trouble with grabbing things back that I lose aggro on, even with my DK. There’s just so much going on around the screen that sometimes I have trouble identifying where the runaway is. Doesn’t Righteous Defense work that you can click the party member who’s being threatened and then do RD? So you’re taunting off a person instead of taunting directly? In any case, yeah, I’d like to get to the point where I can do all of that competently–it’s definitely a goal. But initially, all I want to do is be able to tank (starting with nonheroics and working up to easy heroics) and get a PUG group safely through a bunch of instances so I can get badges. 🙂 So that means the skills I want to get down first are grabbing mobs, holding aggro, and being able to get things back when they run away. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/10100 "2010-03-22T21:32:06Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > You’re talking about Hammer of the Righteous Not quite, it’s HAMMER…of the RIGHTEOUS! > [@](#): > > Doesn’t judging Wisdom get you mana back? My ret pally uses that all the time, and he almost never runs out of mana. Ret also has a Replenishment talent which is very strong; you get like 25% mana back every time you use a judgment, plus the Replenishment effect itself. You don’t need to judge Wisdom at all as Ret when soloing, better to use Light to get health. Wisdom is still useful in groups, since healing will be covered by the healer but mana gain is always useful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=504) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=506)