# World of Warcraft General Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 4, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294 "2009-03-04T17:44:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1141 "2009-05-15T04:26:30Z")
Some elites are tougher than others. Some elites are tough for certain classes, but cake for others. All being elite means is that it’s generally tougher than a typical mob of that level. Hit, crit and miss rates are all scaled at 3 levels higher than their actual level (so a level 72 elite will have hit, crit and miss-rates scaled as though it were level 75), and they’re given extra health / mana, and they tend to hit a lot harder than “normal”. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1142 "2009-05-15T08:08:05Z")
Can someone please save me the time of trawling through ElitistJerks translating their jargon and tell me why Seal of Command is no longer in the recommended Retadin spec? I have been using it all the time and I am currently level 43. [Retadin Spec](http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZVZVfbxbIuhdIfsu:0aZmc) ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1143 "2009-05-15T08:14:12Z")
Regarding Warlocks I found that the blueberry makes you a grinding machine. My belf used to walk up an down The Scar killing at quite a rate, when one mob is a few DOT ticks away from death start on another, with practice you can work out when to do this so that by the time the second mob gets close enough to hit you the big blue has finished with the first mob and will steam in. I hardly ever got hit. Loot the first mob, rinse and repeat. I miss Kraknuz (my voidwalker), I may have to play my Warlock for a bit. I had just got the Succubus too though I had no idea how to use her properly so was sticking to Kraknuz. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1144 "2009-05-15T09:03:00Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > Hit, crit and miss rates are all scaled at 3 levels higher than their actual level (so a level 72 elite will have hit, crit and miss-rates scaled as though it were level 75), [snip] No, no, that’s Boss mobs. Elites are thougher than non-elite mobs like you said, but for hit, crit and miss purposes they are no different from non-elites. > [@martu](#): > > Regarding Warlocks I found that the blueberry makes you a grinding machine. My belf used to walk up an down The Scar killing at quite a rate, when one mob is a few DOT ticks away from death start on another, with practice you can work out when to do this so that by the time the second mob gets close enough to hit you the big blue has finished with the first mob and will steam in. I hardly ever got hit. Loot the first mob, rinse and repeat. My warlock is level 76 now, but I stopped using the Voidwalker when I got the Felhunter at level 30. If you level as Affliction you don’t need a pet to tank for you and I don’t think any pet even could. At first I had to drain-tank the mobs but now most can’t even outdamage my Siphon Life so I can just dot everything in sight and use the pet a mana battery. > [@martu](#): > > Can someone please save me the time of trawling through ElitistJerks translating their jargon and tell me why Seal of Command is no longer in the recommended Retadin spec? I have been using it all the time and I am currently level 43. I think it’s because the spec in question is a level 80 pve dps spec, for pve dps you use Seal of Blood instead of Seal of Command. Seal of Command is still good at lower levels and for soloing. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1145 "2009-05-15T09:43:45Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > My warlock is level 76 now, but I stopped using the Voidwalker when I got the Felhunter at level 30. If you level as Affliction you don’t need a pet to tank for you and I don’t think any pet even could. At first I had to drain-tank the mobs but now most can’t even outdamage my Siphon Life so I can just dot everything in sight and use the pet a mana battery. > > I think it’s because the spec in question is a level 80 pve dps spec, for pve dps you use Seal of Blood instead of Seal of Command. Seal of Command is still good at lower levels and for soloing. I was levelling as Demonology. When I go back I may respec into Affliction for ease of soloing. Ah Ok this makes sense, so when I get Seal of the Martyr at 66 I should respec. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1146 "2009-05-15T09:56:07Z")
> [@martu](#): > > Ah Ok this makes sense, so when I get Seal of the Martyr at 66 I should respec. Thanks. No need to respec really, what you have to keep in mind about Elitistjerks is that most of their discussions concern raiding and only consider how to maximize raid performance. When leveling and soloing you also need to consider things like downtime and survivability. The disadvantage of Seal of Blood/Martyr is that the damn thing can kill you! So by all means try SoB/M out when you get it by don’t waste gold speccing out of SoC until you’re confident you don’t need it any more. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1147 "2009-05-15T10:37:04Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > No need to respec really, what you have to keep in mind about Elitistjerks is that most of their discussions concern raiding and only consider how to maximize raid performance. When leveling and soloing you also need to consider things like downtime and survivability. The disadvantage of Seal of Blood/Martyr is that the damn thing can kill you! So by all means try SoB/M out when you get it by don’t waste gold speccing out of SoC until you’re confident you don’t need it any more. Ok good point and it’s not as if I’ll need that talent point for anything else. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1148 "2009-05-15T12:58:33Z")
On my guild’s website there is the following: > [@](#): > > You may also share your professions or things that you may help with by setting your personal note. How do I set my personal note? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1149 "2009-05-15T14:18:39Z")
Oh we ended up in Feralas last night and I have to say it is a lovely looking zone even when it is pissing down with rain. The elvish names made me yell ‘Dragonlance’ as soon as we got to the Stronghold but that’s no bad thing. Also had someone whispering as soon as we got off the boat asking of he could join us. When I asked why he didn’t say but just kept asking to join, in the end he confessed he needed to be in a group to do a quest. Why not say that from the start? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1150 "2009-05-15T14:20:53Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > No, no, that’s Boss mobs. Elites are thougher than non-elite mobs like you said, but for hit, crit and miss purposes they are no different from non-elites. [Wowwiki.com disagrees:](http://www.wowwiki.com/Elite_creature) > [@](#): > > The hit-, crit- and miss-rates of elite NPCs are calculated as if the mob was 3 levels higher than the level displayed. This means that a player attacking a Level 72 (Elite) mob will have the same chance to hit/hit critically/be hit by/be hit critically by the mob as if it was Level 75 nonelite. While these rates are generally the same for each elite mob, stats like damage, hitpoints, etc. are not calculated by a general formula. While an increase of +30% for hitpoints and DPS of a normal mob is quite a good guideline for most outdoor elites, elite mobs within instances, battlegrounds, outdoor named or rare elites seem to be much stronger. Boss mobs, however, are counted as +3 levels for pretty much anything involving a calculation against the player’s level: > [@](#): > > Skull type bosses are the hardest mobs to kill in WoW. Their level is not displayed as a number, but as a death’s head sign. These bosses have a “dynamic” level - when a numeric level is required for some calculation, they are considered to be 3 levels above the player character involved in that calculation. That is, if both a level 60 warrior and a level 65 druid both tank the same skull type boss, the boss will make crushing blows on the warrior as if it was 63, and on the druid as if it was 68. Similarly, the boss will resist their respective powers as a 63- and 68-level creature would. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1151 "2009-05-15T14:50:42Z")
> [@martu](#): > > How do I set my personal note? > > Thanks You set your personal note in the Guild tab of the Social interface. When you select your name a little box pops up to the right where you can type in something like “Skin/LW 450” or whatever profs you have. ---
**Author:** ![Kingspades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecae2f/32.png) [@Kingspades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kingspades)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1152 "2009-05-15T15:00:38Z")
My favorite site for talent builds is [TalentChic](http://www.talentchic.com). They scan Armory for characters that have end-game raid loot equipped. They then compile the most popular builds for raiding and provide links to Wowhead and Blizzard’s talent calculators so you can use them yourself. Will end-game raiding builds be the best option for a lower level solo character? Not necessarily, but it’s a good starting point and better than just making one up as you go. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1153 "2009-05-15T15:35:50Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > [Wowwiki.com disagrees:](http://www.wowwiki.com/Elite_creature) In that case wowwiki is wrong. You do realize that would mean that the bosses in heroic 5 mans would be treated as level 85 mobs? Ie the spell hit cap in heroic 5 mans would be **39%**! ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1154 "2009-05-15T15:58:09Z")
> [@Mogle](#): > > In that case wowwiki is wrong. You do realize that would mean that the bosses in heroic 5 mans would be treated as level 85 mobs? Ie the spell hit cap in heroic 5 mans would be **39%**! This can’t be correct. The highest mob level (even the main raid bosses in the high-end raids) is assumed to be three levels above the characters in question (that is to say, level 83). I believe Heroic bosses are considered to be level 82 for purposes of calculating things like Hit and Defense cap requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1155 "2009-05-15T16:02:58Z")
> [@winterhawk11](#): > > This can’t be correct. The highest mob level (even the main raid bosses in the high-end raids) is assumed to be three levels above the characters in question (that is to say, level 83). I believe Heroic bosses are considered to be level 82 for purposes of calculating things like Hit and Defense cap requirements. That’s my point, heroic bosses _are_ level 82, but if what **Darwin’s Finch** says about elites is correct they would be treated as level 85. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1156 "2009-05-15T16:31:16Z")
Bosses aren’t normal elites; they have much more health & mana, hit harder, etc., than even an elite of whatever type. Thus, I would assume that a heroic boss’s level is exactly what it says on the unit frame (whereas the trash may well be treated as typical elites - i.e., +3 levels for hit/crit/miss purposes). Plus, heroics tend to up the overall difficulty, so what applies to “normal” elites may well not apply to heroic elites. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1157 "2009-05-15T16:47:55Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > Bosses aren’t normal elites; they have much more health & mana, hit harder, etc., than even an elite of whatever type. Thus, I would assume that a heroic boss’s level is exactly what it says on the unit frame (whereas the trash may well be treated as typical elites - i.e., +3 levels for hit/crit/miss purposes). Plus, heroics tend to up the overall difficulty, so what applies to “normal” elites may well not apply to heroic elites. Or the wowwiki is plain wrong(it’s a wiki after all and he page you linked does not have any sources) and we do not need to assume that there are different kinds of elites that each use different hit/miss/crit mechanics. In my four years of playing this game I have never seen anything that would indicate that elites are treated as being three levels above their actual level, when you try to hit something three or more levels above you, you notice the level difference. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1158 "2009-05-15T16:51:57Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > And I just love those epic battles where you take on two or three mobs and right as you’ve almost got them all down a two-man pat jumps in. You grind those down and then a respawn jumps you from behind. Use every trick, every cooldown, kill them all with just a few HP to spare. Or my personal favorite, die on the last one but as you’re laying dead on the ground the last tick from your DoT wipes them out. 🆒 I just had one of those. I took on two mobs my level (on purpose) with my level 80 frost mage, and accidentally aggroed a third. I did my usual frost novas and dodging and dancing and hammering on them. Unfortunately, a fourth one spawned next to me just as the first one dropped. I summoned my water elemental and used my little trinket from outlands to get my whelp. The fifth one spawned just as the whelp came out. A potion and the evocation spell kept me alive and kept some mana, but I ended up finishing off the last one with my wand and ended the fight with no mana and a couple hundred health. If one of them had DoTted me, I’d have been toast. > [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Another puzzle (for me at least). I seem to be completely failing to grasp what “Elite” means when it comes to mobs. There doesn’t seem to be any kind of consistency as to “Elite” being an indicator of difficulty. Elite means “tougher than a normal mob.” That’s about the extent of it. My death knight has taken down two elites his own level at the same time, but I’ve also been part of a party of five wiped by a single elite. There are 80 elites out there with 25K hits, and with hundreds of thousands (I think the ones with millions are all boss-level). There are 80 elites that hit for a couple of thousand, and 80 elites that can one-shot my mage with all shields up. I’ve had some very tough fights with elites ten levels lower than me, and had others that I didn’t even notice were elite until I’d killed them. There’s no consistency to it at all. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1159 "2009-05-15T16:55:48Z")
> [@Kingspades](#): > > My favorite site for talent builds is [TalentChic](http://www.talentchic.com). They scan Armory for characters that have end-game raid loot equipped. They then compile the most popular builds for raiding and provide links to Wowhead and Blizzard’s talent calculators so you can use them yourself. > > Will end-game raiding builds be the best option for a lower level solo character? Not necessarily, but it’s a good starting point and better than just making one up as you go. I like that site. It was very helpful, during the last few patches when our talent points were getting reset all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Redwing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@Redwing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redwing)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294/1160 "2009-05-15T17:20:51Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > Bosses aren’t normal elites; they have much more health & mana, hit harder, etc., than even an elite of whatever type. Thus, I would assume that a heroic boss’s level is exactly what it says on the unit frame (whereas the trash may well be treated as typical elites - i.e., +3 levels for hit/crit/miss purposes). Plus, heroics tend to up the overall difficulty, so what applies to “normal” elites may well not apply to heroic elites. Umm… raid level bosses get the player +3, heroic bosses are simply special elites, and elites don’t get any level bonus compared to players. You don’t need hit gear to start heroics the way you do for raids, and the uncrush/uncrit caps are lower as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-of-warcraft-general-discussion/488294.md?page=59)