# World Overpopulation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597 "2014-12-31T07:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/81 "2015-01-05T15:49:15Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > There are more examples than just the Philippines, and it gives me hope. . It is in fact a common feature of the capital transfer that was important even to the european development of the second tier european countries that exported the labor and is now important for the eastern europe. Within the african countries it is important for flows within the continent, unlike the implied assumption made that this is only to european countries > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’m not really sure what this even means. It means some posters have views of african based on the color of the inhabitants. > [@](#): > > So the question here really isn’t ‘how do we get African people to follow American reproductive patterns’, which seems like an inexplicable problem. It’s really ‘how do we get Malian people to follow South African reproductive patterns, or even Batswana reproductive patterns’, which seem much more manageable. Yes and perhaps it has been neglected in the past decade in favor of the economic policy reforms but when it is possible to point for the local policy makers references to other african countries, including the north african like the Morocco making the positive policy reform and the demographic change, for very good sustained economic growth, it is useful. The > [@](#): > > I agree with you that mass immigration (which I’m not a fan of anyway) and remittances aren’t much more than a small part of the solution, but look, the success of southern African countries at reducing fertility clearly shows it can be done. The economic opportunity and non agricultural labor opportunities help greatly and the economic growth of the past decade has shown the potential. In the West african case, the return of the Côte d’Ivoire to stability will help greatly. Also the reduction of the disease burden, and importantly for attacking the burden of the malaria will help as I believe personally this is a strong contributor to the cultural desire for the children as the mortality in the infancy remains high. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/82 "2015-01-05T16:07:33Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Sure, but when unsavory things get added to it, that’s a problem. Air pollution is gross but is not a serious impediment to the world’s population. It’s also a fixable problem, as evidence by the many, many examples of it being fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/83 "2015-01-05T16:48:32Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It means some posters have views of african based on the color of the inhabitants. If the claim is specifically about _race_ as opposed to culture, it’s even weaker. There are some of the Caribbean island nations, populated overwhelmingly by people of West African descent, that have fertility rates well below the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/84 "2015-01-05T16:53:04Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Incidentally, Black South Africans in the 1950s had a fertility rate as high as the _worst_ African country today (either Mali or Niger, I forget which), and while I’m not sure what the Black South African TFR is today, I doubt it’s all _that_ much higher than the national average of 2.23. My WAG guess for the Black fertility rate in South Africa, based on their share of the population, would be around 2.35 or so (around the same as Botswana), but if anyone has actual data I’d be interested to see it. In the mid-1950s it was 6.8, comparable to Niger (6.9) today. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/85 "2015-01-06T11:27:41Z")
Are there any “developing” countries with increasing birth rates? I haven’t found any yet. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/86 "2015-01-06T12:44:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Remittances are when people working abroad send money directly to their families back home. They are among the largest sources of foreign assistance in the world, right up there with official foreign aid. > > Managed well, they can be a powerful engine of economic growth. The Philippines, to give an example, sends skilled workers around the world. A family saves up to send one bright family member to one of the many trade schools and colleges focused on overseas work (nursing school is huge), and that family member sends back money, often for education, seed funds for small businesses, and home improvements. > > This fuels more demand for education, and also brings money in to the economy, stimulating local demand and bolstering the local economy. With enough growth, those skilled workers will eventually have opportunities at home and emigration will slow down. > > The Philippines is hardly a country of beggars. It has experienced rapid growth and an enormous rise in education. This has been attributed directly to overseas workers. Whether or not a family left behind becomes beggars from the exported skilled worker is a question of how gently you want to put it, I guess. China, India and the Philippines have had some success with this model. For african nations, the dilemma is going to be creating the skilled workers in the first place and being able to afford to lose them in the second place. There is already a paucity of intelligentsia, and exporting low-wage earners is not as good a way to get money, obviously. On the other hand, you need highly skilled workers to stay at home if you do not have an oversupply, because you cannot develop for the long term if they all bail for greener pastures. Remittances can be a value add to GDP (something like 10% for the Philippines?) but they can’t be a mainstay . You can’t become a developed nation begging from those who left. Given the population explosion predicted to occur, the challenge will be ways to maintain economic growth in the face of many more mouths to feed. Perhaps the question is whether the population growth predictions are accurate or the expectations for GDP growth are accurate. I personally think it’s an either/or. As outside nations come in and develop the natural resources, the question in my mind is going to be whether or not the african nations who own them will be able to keep a substantial piece of the pie, or whether a combination of poor management and poor central government will fritter away the opportunity. I do not see real industrialization and manufacturing being successful in the forseeable future for most african nations. I certainly hope I am wrong, because the alternative to modern industrialization and manufacturing is to watch your resources get plundered while you are just trying to keep up with a burgeoning population. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/87 "2015-01-06T13:01:16Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Your ignorance and negative views are not based on [the current facts,](http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2014/CAR102014A.htm) but the old stereotypes. Well, at least we are reading the same background articles. 🙂 From your cite: \*"Although global growth is projected to gradually strengthen, an expected deceleration in emerging markets and a rebalancing of Chinese demand toward private consumption will make the external environment less supportive for the region. International stakeholders should be prepared to engage with these countries on a long-term basis, both to support their capacity building process and to provide the high levels of aid that may continue to be needed until the country has achieved a minimum level of resilience. The study finds that many countries in the region have sustained a high level of public investment, but only some of them have managed to improve their infrastructure significantly. The major obstacle to addressing the continent’s infrastructure deficit does not generally appear to be a lack of financing, but rather capacity constraints in developing and implementing projects. More specifically, countries should strengthen their public financial management capacity by upgrading their methods to plan, execute, and monitor public investment, strengthening their project appraisal procedures, and adopting a medium-term budgetary framework that includes adequate provisions for the cost of operation and maintenance."\* If success for african nations boils down to the ability to plan, execute and monitor public investment along with adopting budgetary frameworks, all in the current context of population expansion, I’m not particularly hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/88 "2015-01-06T13:16:17Z")
Here are three different lists of fertility rates for every country in recent years: > **[List of sovereign states and dependencies by total fertility rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate)** > > This is a list of all sovereign states and dependencies by total fertility rate (TFR): the expected number of children born per woman in her child-bearing years. > The first lists show the most recent year where there is published total fertility rate (TFR) data ranked by sovereign states and dependencies, and are ordered by organization type - Intergovernmental, Governmental or Non-governmental organization that searched, organized and published the data. > Country ranking by most recent years l... Here’s a list of the median household income for some countries: > **[Median income](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income)** > > The median income is the income amount that divides a population into two equal groups, half having an income above that amount, and half having an income below that amount. It may differ from the mean (or average) income. Both of these are ways of understanding income distribution. > Median income can be calculated by household income, by personal income, or for specific demographic groups. > The following table represents data from OECD's "median disposable income per person" metric; disposable i... It appears to me that the most obvious mismatch to the generalization that high median household income means low fertility is Israel, which has a fertility rate somewhat above average but a household income somewhat more than average. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/89 "2015-01-06T14:59:18Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Here are three different lists of fertility rates for every country in recent years: > > [List of countries by total fertility rate - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate) > > Here’s a list of the median household income for some countries: > > [Median income - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income) > > It appears to me that the most obvious mismatch to the generalization that high median household income means low fertility is Israel, which has a fertility rate somewhat above average but a household income somewhat more than average. IIRC, Israel is one of the few countries where fertility has been increasing in recent years (largely because the extremely high fertility Haredim sects are becoming a larger share of the population). [http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/the-wheel-of-history-turns-to-the-gods/](http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/10/the-wheel-of-history-turns-to-the-gods/) “The Haredi fertility is stable, somewhere in the 6-10 TFR range depending on the community, while Arab TFR has dropped to 4 or below. Interestingly the secular Jewish TFR has also increased in the past generation, from 2.1 to 2.6. This is a reminder to be very careful of average values of fertility for a group. It seems that for ideological or cultural reasons the Haredi in Israel remain fertile, even after allowances for children were cut back, which had an immediate effect on Arab fertility. The lower Jewish aggregate fertility ignores the motive force of the Haredi within the larger community. Assuming current trends the Haredi will likely become the majority within Israel by about 2050.” ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/90 "2015-01-06T15:18:51Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Whether or not a family left behind becomes beggars from the exported skilled worker is a question of how gently you want to put it, I guess. No, it doesn’t. Unless you also classify my one year old as a “beggar.” Or, say, the family of a deployed serviceman. Remittances generally support the elderly, children, students and full-time caregivers: the same people who receive support in any middle class household in the world. The working age people, of course, are out getting the remittances. Remittances typically go to things like school fees, improvements to the homestead, and emergency funds-- the same thing any other middle class family spends money on. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/91 "2015-01-06T17:21:15Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Whether or not a family left behind becomes beggars from the exported skilled worker is a question of how gently you want to put it, I guess. It has nothing to do with gently it is the simple economic model that has been seen across labor export across the many different income levels. You are ‘guessing’ out of non comprehension and other factors that cloud the perception of all things african. > [@](#): > > China, India and the Philippines have had some success with this model. And Poland and cental america and south western europe in the 19c etc. etc. The model is not a mystery or a guess. > [@](#): > > For african nations, the dilemma is going to be creating the skilled workers in the first place and being able to afford to lose them in the second place. This is a false proposition showing that you have not either understood the remittances information provided or your views on capacity inherent are distorting. The export of the labor is not simply the skilled workers and in fact in the majority it is not the skilled workers, not for the philippines, nor the indonesia nor the majority of countries where the remittances are important - unless you wish to pretend it is skilled labor > [@](#): > > and exporting low-wage earners is not as good a way to get money, obviously. No, in fact it is a perfectly fine way to earn money in absorbing the otherwise under used labor factor and one that has been seen many times in the evolution of the economic history across many continents. There is not a mystery about this. The export of labor (that is then sending the remittances to families at home) to either the developed countries or to the more economically developed neighbors has proven to be over an entire century of records to be a good way to build local capital savings in the formal sectors which is invested locally - and it becomes much more powerful when the economic policy becomes positive to the private sector investment, but remains very important even in building the human capital (to pay for the school fees, the medical care, etc) and the improved housing capital (the improved house building that is very evident in all countries with such workers). These capital improvements have proven again and again to be extremely important and it is not based on “highly skilled” that are always a tiny numerical minority and not the majority of the remittance capital flows. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, you need highly skilled workers to stay at home if you do not have an oversupply, because you cannot develop for the long term if they all bail for greener pastures. You have invented the problem of the "highly skilled"labor which is not what **even sven** said, but skilled, although I do not call the majority of the philippine labor export skilled - to make someone imagine the IT workers, it the café workers and the service sector workers and in some areas the industrial labor. Even for the Indian case, which the americans always see through the eyes of the IT sector, a huge portion - I think even the absolute majority of the remittances - is in fact from the basic labor export for construction and other not skilled categories, not through sending the skilled IT worker to the USA, although this helped create the linkages backwards that eventually led to the creation of the domestic industry for the delocalisation to the Indian centres. It is already the case that in most of the developing economies the ‘highly skilled’ labor makes a good wage locally and is less inclined to emigrate as the demand for them is more than supply in most cases. It is more the case that there is the capital shortage (and often the bad policies that make this the case) that limits expansion. We already see from the economic history - the actual real development not invented assertions by persons who have not read either the economics or the history of the development or the specifics of the developing countries - that labor retention and the migration ceases as an economic infrastructure and the opportunities emerge, and that remittances have in many cases in europe and in asia been the significant contributors to the capital flow and the savings that have financed this development. > [@](#): > > Remittances can be a value add to GDP (something like 10% for the Philippines?) but they can’t be a mainstay . You can’t become a developed nation begging from those who left. These are your prejudiced remarks without any foundation in the economic history that has the data that says you are completely wrong (never mind the false and prejudiced use of ‘begging’ since of course it is not in any way ‘begging’ for family labor to share monies earned internally to the family for the family savings or the family consumption - except of course “black people” are involved so the analysis and the discourse of some people goes a certain way…). In actual fact, the economic history says, as it has been noted, that the capital flows of the remittances have in fact been very important in the building of the savings base and thus the capital base that have built needed economic infrastructure. Thus your statement is empirically false from the demonstrated experiences in the european countries and the asian countries and even in the african countries like morocco and it is without it a foundation except in ignorance. The remittances alone of course do not allow for the best possible results, there is also needed the improved policy to support the economic growth, but we are already seeing these changes in the African countries that are reporting the highest sustained level of the economic growth (and following the Asian model > [@](#): > > I do not see real industrialization and manufacturing being successful in the forseeable future for most african nations. What a great surprise, and why? Because it would seem “Africa” and its people… Your analysis is not one that has much to inform it. > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Well, at least we are reading the same background articles. 🙂 I doubt this completely and 100%. > [@](#): > > If success for african nations boils down to the ability to plan, execute and monitor public investment along with adopting budgetary frameworks, all in the current context of population expansion, I’m not particularly hopeful. Yes of course you are not hopeful, because ‘africa’ and its population specifics… Like in the ebola conversation as we saw and the never competence… The actual fact of the infrastructure investment shows that the countries in sub saharan african countries that have adopted the better governance have shown the real improvements. The paths of this once adopted do not look very different from the paths of the asian or the north african peer countries. The changes in the governance culture are things that evolve, just like the economic policy and no country has made it all at once. The evolution has been seen before and it is now being seen in the leading economic developers of the continent, and like in the asian countries it will not be without bumps. But this is not strange or new or specific to black africans, whatever prejudices abound. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/92 "2015-01-06T17:30:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > No, it doesn’t. Unless you also classify my one year old as a “beggar.” It depends, if your child is african or not, the status of the beggar. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/93 "2015-01-07T00:50:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > It seems to me economies need to grow, and to grow, they need increasing populations. If the world hits ZPG, are there any plans to prevent economies from contracting? What are we planning to do with increased numbers of elderly and fewer workers and tax payers? No, economic growth does not require population growth. And ZPG does not imply an ageing population, except temporarily for some countries’ demographics. > [@](#): > > What about Africa? According to these Voice of America articles Africa is heading into a baby boom. The articles are low on information. Is this baby boom due to less food or more food? I’m guessing more food. Am I wrong? Maybe someday Africa will be more like some EU countries and the birthrate will drop. Yes, that’s pretty much it. Basically there are stages of demographic transition that many countries go through. Very poor countries do often see an explosion in birth rate at the point they are able to feed their populations. This then levels off as the country becomes wealthier and standards of living and education increase. This kind of boom and then levelling off has been seen many times; just look at home densely populated, but stable, much of western europe is and east asia is. Fortunately all indications are that africa will peak long before reaching anything like that level of density, which is a good thing given the size of the continent. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/94 "2015-01-07T01:02:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > No, economic growth does not require population growth. > And ZPG does not imply an ageing population, except temporarily for some countries’ demographics. Do you have any examples? Western Europe boosts immigration and imports labor. Russia has a shrinking population but until very recently their economy was buoyed by high oil prices. > [@](#): > > Yes, that’s pretty much it. Basically there are stages of demographic transition that many countries go through. Very poor countries do often see an explosion in birth rate at the point they are able to feed their populations. This then levels off as the country becomes wealthier and standards of living and education increase. Okay, but how old is this phenomenon? Honest questions. I’d like to think the world will be okay with a stagnant population, but I’m not sure that will work without some Star Trekian utopia I’m pessimistic about human society achieving. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2015, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/95 "2015-01-07T04:16:00Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Do you have any examples? Against the claim that increasing population is a requirement for a growing economy? Sure. 1. Any wealthy country with a low absolute population e.g. Luxembourg 2. Any wealthy country with a low population density e.g. Sweden 3. Any country which has become significantly wealthier without it’s population changing markedly e.g. China. > [@](#): > > Western Europe boosts immigration and imports labor. Yes but this is primarily because of aforementioned ageing population issue (which is not the same issue as ZPG), market failures in terms of training people for the right things and treaties that mean countries are obliged to accept X immigrants. And it is controversial whether countries benefit in the long term; most WEurope countries are trying to increase immigration restrictions. > [@](#): > > Russia has a shrinking population but until very recently their economy was buoyed by high oil prices. Which concedes the point that increasing population is a requirement of economic growth. > [@](#): > > I’d like to think the world will be okay with a stagnant population, but I’m not sure that will work without some Star Trekian utopia I’m pessimistic about human society achieving. You haven’t given any reason to suppose it _wouldn’t_ work. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/96 "2015-01-08T00:13:38Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > The paths of this once adopted do not look very different from the paths of the asian or the north african peer countries. The changes in the governance culture are things that evolve, just like the economic policy and no country has made it all at once. [China, India GDP growth.](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/China_india_gdp.jpg) [China, India projected economies.](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/US,China_and_India_projected_GDP_growth_2009-2050_Pwc.PNG) [China, India, income.](http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4e253fd6ccd1d5eb39130000/chart.gif) [GDP per capita for South Asia, East Asia Pacific, and sub-saharan Africa](http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/03/11/GDP_2.gif) I do think the development of natural resources will help spur economic growth, but I suspect much of the largesse will be siphoned off by corruption and external nations, leaving the average citizen looking much the same. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/97 "2015-01-08T01:52:59Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > About 20 years ago, I got this interesting book on trivia facts. And it had this equally interesting article, apparently by a respected scientist, on overpopulation. > > I think the book itself was written around the late 60s or early 70s. But it said the first and foremost problem the earth we face in the future, is overpopulation. It will effect every aspect of human life and existence. Every other problem will just take a backseat to this one, some day at least. > > It has been a while since this book was published. And I have just one question: \*\*What (if anything) is being done _now_ to address the issue of human overpopulation? \*\* > > And indeed, what are the solutions? Contraception works well in developed countries. Should it be made _more_ freely available in more underdeveloped countries? And what about compulsory contraception? Will it be required some day? Could it be necessary even now, for that matter? > > 🙂 It is how you view overpopulation problem.There is enough food and water to go around for everyone. The problem is rising housing costs every where even in the US. If everyone had American suburban dream this would cause major problems. Out side the US city density is very high. Most Americans would hate it. The US is lucky to have low suburb density.The world of 7 billion people could not live in a typical American suburban density.The earth is just too small. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/98 "2015-01-08T11:30:07Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > [China, India GDP growth.](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/China_india_gdp.jpg) > > [China, India projected economies.](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/US,China_and_India_projected_GDP_growth_2009-2050_Pwc.PNG) > > [China, India, income.](http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4e253fd6ccd1d5eb39130000/chart.gif) > > [GDP per capita for South Asia, East Asia Pacific, and sub-saharan Africa](http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/03/11/GDP_2.gif) Et alors? I have written “the paths once adopted” - the development path and trajectory in comparative from adoption of reform, not the simple time scale you present. It is the analysis of the proper economists, not naive unreferenced comparison. > [@](#): > > I suspect much of the largesse will be siphoned off by corruption and external nations, leaving the average citizen looking much the same. > > We’ll see. We have already seen as the living standards for the population have already risen quite importantly in the past decade in the reforming countries, but of course for you ‘black people’ and genetic competence, non? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/99 "2015-01-08T19:09:40Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > The US is lucky to have low suburb density. No, we’re lucky we can **afford** it, not that we **have** it. ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597/100 "2015-01-09T05:37:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, we’re lucky we can **afford** it, not that we **have** it. I was saying other countries can’t build low suburbs. Just image China and India building like that even if they where all rich. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-overpopulation/708597.md?page=6)