# World War 2 sabotage **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457 "2016-06-04T02:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/1 "2016-06-04T02:11:35Z")
I was watching a US WWII propaganda film, and one of the things they mentioned was looking out for sabotage. Were there ever any real examples of enemy sabotage in US factories during the war? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/2 "2016-06-04T05:35:49Z")
I believe a couple fires and explosions in the US during WW II have been blamed on sabotage but I can’t come up with a fast response/example where one has been proven. That’s one of the problems historically with sabotage; you know about the cases where the people were caught and convicted beforehand but some of the successes will look like what they were designed to look like; common accidents. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/3 "2016-06-04T06:10:37Z")
There were definitely attempts at sabotage. Operation Pastorius was an attempt by Germany to conduct sabotage operations throughout the U.S. The main reason it did not succeed was that the group was betrayed by a couple of its own members, who turned them in to the FBI. > **[Operation Pastorius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pastorius)** > > Operation Pastorius was a failed German intelligence plan for sabotage inside the United States during World War II. The operation was staged in June 1942 and was to be directed against strategic American economic targets. The operation was named by Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, chief of the German Abwehr, for Francis Daniel Pastorius, the organizer of the first organized settlement of Germans in America. The plan involved eight German saboteurs who had previously spent time in the United States. Germany also launched a failed sabotage mission against Britain (Operation Lena). So it was a valid potential threat, even if the known sabotage attempts were unsuccessful. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/4 "2016-06-04T06:42:12Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > There were definitely attempts at sabotage. > > Operation Pastorius was an attempt by Germany to conduct sabotage operations throughout the U.S. The main reason it did not succeed was that the group was betrayed by a couple of its own members, who turned them in to the FBI. > > [Operation Pastorius - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Pastorius) > > Germany also launched a failed sabotage mission against Britain (Operation Lena). > > So it was a valid potential threat, even if the known sabotage attempts were unsuccessful. There was the fire that destroyed the SS France at the dock in New York. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/5 "2016-06-04T15:10:35Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > There was the fire that destroyed the SS France at the dock in New York. are you implying that this was an act of sabotage? If so, can you provide a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/6 "2016-06-04T15:33:02Z")
And on the other side, Heisenberg claimed after the war that he was deliberately sabotaging the Nazis’ atomic bomb project, which he was in charge of. True? Who knows, but it was certainly run incompetently enough (in retrospect) to be plausible. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/7 "2016-06-04T16:51:32Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > There was the fire that destroyed the SS France at the dock in New York. You may actually be thinking of the SS Normandie. > **[Smoke Over Manhattan: The Fate of the SS Normandie](https://www.historynet.com/the-fate-of-the-ss-normandie/?f)** > > When the SS Normandie, a luxury liner being converted into the USS Lafayette troop transport, went up in flames in 1942, New Yorkers assumed it was the work of Nazi saboteurs—and made a deal with the devil to protect their waterfront There were several other fires around New York at war-related installations, a couple in Ohio and some of the west coast that were suspected. One I recall reading about ages ago was an aviation fuel/refinery fire I believe in Ohio; the person responsible/blamed was a German-American worker with close ties back home. Did he do something on purpose and die as a result? Did he act on his own? There were even some signs that it could have been a suicide. But to prove sabotage; there just wasn’t the evidence left. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/8 "2016-06-04T17:45:41Z")
If you go back to World War I when America was neutral in 1916 the “Black Tom Explosion” in New York City killed seven people and damaged the Statue of Liberty. It was an act of German sabotage. > **[Black Tom explosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Tom_explosion)** > > The Black Tom explosion was an act of sabotage by agents of the German Empire, to destroy U.S.-made munitions that were to be supplied to the Allies in World War I. The explosions, which occurred on July 30, 1916, in New York Harbor, killed four people and destroyed some $20,000,000 ($500 million in 2023 dollars) worth of military goods. This incident, which happened prior to U.S. entry into World War I, also damaged the Statue of Liberty. It was one of the largest artificial non-nuclea The te... People generally agree American intelligence and law enforcement agencies did a good job in limiting Axis sabotage in WW2. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/9 "2016-06-04T18:15:14Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > People generally agree American intelligence and law enforcement agencies did a good job in limiting Axis sabotage in WW2. I’m a bit surprised by “people” given there was no US Intelligence community almost to the end of WW2: > **[United States Intelligence Community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community#History)** > > The United States Intelligence Community (IC) is a group of separate U.S. federal government intelligence agencies and subordinate organizations that work both separately and collectively to conduct intelligence activities which support the foreign policy and national security interests of the United States. Member organizations of the IC include intelligence agencies, military intelligence, and civilian intelligence and analysis offices within federal executive departments. > The IC is overse... ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/10 "2016-06-04T19:03:26Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’m a bit surprised by “people” given there was no US Intelligence community almost to the end of WW2: > > [United States Intelligence Community - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community#History) You had the OSS formed in June 1942, which in part coordinated various intelligence work by State, Treasury, Navy and War departments. Even the predecessor to that, the OCI, was established in 1941, with a lot of help from the British who were pretty good at it. > **[Office of Strategic Services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Strategic_Services)** > > The Office of Strategic Services (OSS) was an intelligence agency of the United States during World War II. The OSS was formed as an agency of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) to coordinate espionage activities behind enemy lines for all branches of the United States Armed Forces. Other OSS functions included the use of propaganda, subversion, and post-war planning. > The OSS was dissolved a month after the end of the war. Intelligence tasks were shortly later resumed and carried over by its suc... ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/11 "2016-06-04T21:06:26Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’m a bit surprised by “people” given there was no US Intelligence community almost to the end of WW2: > > [United States Intelligence Community - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community#History) You’re using the modern distinction between intelligence and law enforcement. The FBI did a very great deal of work during WWII that today would be done by the intelligence agencies. Hoover wrote a fair bit about it, afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/12 "2016-06-04T21:15:28Z")
The burning of the Normandie was not sabotage. Its cause is known and was due to an accident. Hitchcock implied it was sabotage in \* Saboteur \*, which caused outrage from the military, who pointed out the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/13 "2016-06-04T23:07:53Z")
The nearly total lack of sabotage in the U.S. is one of the most remarkable things about that war. You’d think that out of all the millions of people with German heritage, a few thousand, a few dozen, could be induced to commit sabotage. The horrible injustice we perpetrated on Japanese citizens should have radicalized even more. There are a million ways to cause damage; you don’t need to be a suicide bomber. Yet sabotage was a factor only in movies and books and comics and radio shows, all of which mined it constantly for plots for the good guys to foil. Sabotage was very real in Europe; though you can argue how much serious damage it did the fact of it was a constant. So it should have been an issue here as well. It wasn’t. Remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/14 "2016-06-05T00:57:33Z")
Although [Vocabulary.com](http://Vocabulary.com) says: “Sabotage comes from the French word saboter, which literally means “walk noisily.” That’s funny, because the last thing you’d want to do when committing an act of sabotage is stomp around and get caught. It’s believed that sabotage came into use in 1910 as a noun, and then later in 1918 as a verb. Apparently, people only became so cruel in the last century or so.” I learned in French I or II in high school, or elsewhere whence I cannot cite, a more basic source is from the practice by Dutch POWs working in German factories throwing their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/15 "2016-06-05T01:28:30Z")
> [@Ignatz](#): > > Although [Vocabulary.com](http://Vocabulary.com) says: > > “Sabotage comes from the French word saboter, which literally means “walk noisily.” That’s funny, because the last thing you’d want to do when committing an act of sabotage is stomp around and get caught. It’s believed that sabotage came into use in 1910 as a noun, and then later in 1918 as a verb. Apparently, people only became so cruel in the last century or so.” > > I learned in French I or II in high school, or elsewhere whence I cannot cite, a more basic source is from the practice by Dutch POWs working in German factories throwing their wooden shoes (sabots) into the machinery. Sue your school and your teacher. From [etymonline.com](http://etymonline.com) > [@](#): > > sabotage (n.) Look up sabotage at [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) > 1907 (from 1903 as a French word in English), from French sabotage, from saboter “to sabotage, bungle,” literally “walk noisily,” from sabot “wooden shoe” (13c.), altered (by association with Old French bot “boot”) from Middle French savate “old shoe,” from an unidentified source that also produced similar words in Old Provençal, Portuguese, Spanish (zapata), Italian (ciabatta), Arabic (sabbat), and Basque (zapata). > > ``` > In French, and at first in English, the sense of "deliberately and maliciously destroying property" originally was in reference to labor disputes, but the oft-repeated story (as old as the record of the word in English) that the modern meaning derives from strikers' supposed tactic of throwing shoes into machinery is not supported by the etymology. Likely it was not meant as a literal image; the word was used in French in a variety of "bungling" senses, such as "to play a piece of music badly." This, too, was the explanation given in some early usages. > > SABOTAGE [chapter heading] The title we have prefixed seems to mean "scamping work." It is a device which, we are told, has been adopted by certain French workpeople as a substitute for striking. The workman, in other words, purposes to remain on and to do his work badly, so as to annoy his employer's customers and cause loss to his employer. ["The Liberty Review," January 1907] > > You may believe that sabotage is murder, and so forth, but it is not so at all. Sabotage means giving back to the bosses what they give to us. Sabotage consists in going slow with the process of production when the bosses go slow with the same process in regard to wages. [Arturo M. Giovannitti, quoted in report of the Sagamore Sociological Conference, June 1907] > > In English, "malicious mischief" would appear to be the nearest explicit definition of "sabotage," which is so much more expressive as to be likely of adoption into all languages spoken by nations suffering from this new force in industry and morals. Sabotage has a flavor which is unmistakable even to persons knowing little slang and no French .... ["Century Magazine," November 1910] > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ignatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3be4f8/32.png) [@Ignatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignatz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-2-sabotage/756457/16 "2016-06-05T01:34:10Z")
Touché!