# World War I was better than World War II **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 2, 2000, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388 "2000-10-02T20:24:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/21 "2000-10-03T04:11:51Z")
I’ve seen the bullet that started it all. Yessirree, it’s in Konopiste, Archduke Ferdinand’s Bohemian hunting lodge. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/22 "2000-10-03T04:23:17Z")
Now be careful, dz, to pronounce it right. It’s not “put-TEE” with the accent on the second syllable; it’s “PUT-tee” with the accent on the first syllable. In fact, it’s pronounced exactly like the word “putty.” ---
**Author:** ![SeaDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SeaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/23 "2000-10-03T04:29:54Z")
A bit of the topic I know but… It’s good to see people who take an interest in the battles/wars of the past. It is too easy for us to forget the sacrafices made by our fore-fathers. Choosing to learn and understand war is in no way glorifying it. Thanks for the links **Rodd Hill** , I’ll be reading them with interest. And a small irk… > [@](#): > > Just FYI, on November 22 the movie “The Trench” will open; it’s about the Battle of the Somme – the bloodiest day in English history. Jolly good fun, that! I think you will find there was a fair few of us kilted warriors there too!! English does not=British 🙂 Thanks for telling us about it though **stuyguy** , I had no idea that was in the making, I’m really looking forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/24 "2000-10-03T04:50:48Z")
Yeah, except for the air war WWI has been just glossed over by Hollywood. I suppose it’s not glamourous to drown in mud. Thanks for the pronunciation guide, **stuyguy**. You just KNEW I pronounced it wrong! It’s not a word that comes up in daily conversation, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/25 "2000-10-03T17:45:47Z")
**magdalene** said: > [@](#): > > I’ve seen the bullet that started it all. Yessirree, it’s in Konopiste, Archduke Ferdinand’s Bohemian hunting lodge. …surely it was lodged in Bohemian Archduke Ferdinand (sorry!) The first day of the Somme (July 1, 1916) was incredibly bloody: 60,000 casualties (including wounded & missing) in one day. At [Beaumont Hamel](http://www.stemnet.nf.ca/beaumont/somme2.htm), the Newfoundland Regiment (who had the unique distinction in the British Empire forces of wearing blue puttees), went over the top that morning with 801 all ranks. Only 68 men survived unwounded, and every officer of the battalion was either killed or wounded. July 1 was a day of mourning in Newfoundland for many years (some say it still is, as the day is now commemorated as the day they joined Canadian confederation in 1949). The battlefield is now preserved as a Canadian [National Historic Site](http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=memorials/ww1mem/beaumonthamel), as is [Vimy Ridge](http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=memorials/ww1mem/vimy). The two battlefield areas are some of the only WWI terrain to survive in something like their original configuration. And they continue to take lives–a British Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal officer was killed about a year ago in one of the Vimy tunnels not open to the public. This [Mine Action website](http://www.hdic.jmu.edu/hdic/journal/4.2/Features/ww2/ww2.htm) quotes a Belgian Bomb Disposal officer: > [@](#): > > Captain Vincent Muylkens of the BDU of the Belgium Armed Forces (SEDEE-DOVO) feels “about 450 million pieces of explosive ordnance remain. Having 3,500 requests each year, we will stay busy for many years to come.” Michel Lambrechts, captain-commandant of the unit commented, “Every year we handle approximately 250 tons of ammunition from these wars. Within these 250 tons, some 20 tons are doubtful ammunitions which could be chemical shells from WWI.” I will only add that Belgium is a very small country. But to return to the OP, I think that the Great War cultural impact was greater by comparison than that of the Second World War. Modern mechanical warfare was unknown before 1914 (although the US Civil War had pointed the way), and it was still possible to march away singing the old patriotic songs and believe in them without irony (at least in the first year of the war. When WWII began, everyone knew how awful modern warfare was (although incredibly, it got worse), and while there were still stirring appeals to Christian values and Crusades Against Evil, there was an undercurrent of resignation about how many lives this would cost, particularly in the older generation who had experienced the Great War. If you haven’t already, read Paul Fussel’s seminal [**The Great War and Modern Memory** ,](http://www.lib.byu.edu/~english/WWI/children/captain_nevill.html) or the less effective **The Rites of Spring** by Modris Eckstein. Fussell examines and dissects the propaganda of the Great War like no-one else (and interestingly, Fussell was an infantry officer in the US Army in WWII). Even the soldier’s slang of the two wars displays a fundamental difference: most enemy shells in WWII were called by their calibre (“88”), or simply as “flak” (the German multi-launched “Moaning Minnie” was a notable exception). In the Great War, the slang was more descriptive and more poignant: Coal-Box (from the black puff of smoke on detonation); Jack Johnson (after the famous African-American boxer, because it packed quite a punch); Whizz-bang (a flat-trajectory shell, that seemed to explode before it arrived); Archie (anti-aircraft fire); Crump (onomatoepea); Flying pigs (trench-mortar bomb). Eric Partridge, author of several excellent works on slang (and himself a WWI frontline veteran), published **Soldier’s Song and Slang** in 1931, and he had some interesting observations on British soldier’s catch-phrases: > [@](#): > > But these other replies [to an NCO] referred only to a person whose whereabouts is unknown–or not to be disclosed: > **Died of Wounds– > Hanging on the wire at Mons– > Gassed at Mons.** > There was, of course, no wire at the Retreat from Mons and gas was unknown at that time. and > [@](#): > > **Berlin by Christmas** ; a vaunt that will even now bring a blush to the cheek of a decent ex-serviceman and cause the indecent to growl: Yes, like Buggery!" and > [@](#): > > “What did you do in the Great War, Daddy?” “Shut up you little bastard! Go get the Bluebell and clean my medals!” and a couple of marching-songs or chants: > [@](#): > > My Nelly (to the tune of “Three Blind Mice”) > > My Nelly’s a goer, > My Nelly’s a goer! > She’s got such wonderful eyes of blue. > She uses such wonderful language too, > Her favourite expression is, balls to you. > My Nelly’s a goer. > > Never Mind > > If old Jerry shells the trench, > Never mind! > If old Jerry shells the trench, > Never mind! > Though the bloody sandbags fly > You have only once to die, > If old Jerry shells the trench, > Never mind! > > If you get stuck on the wire, > Never mind! > If you get stuck on the wire, > Never mind! > Though the light’s as broad as day > When you die they stop your pay, > If you get stuck on the wire, > Never mind! To my mind, the best modern film about the Great War at least as far as cultural influences go, and not narrative history is Richard Attenborough’s **Oh, What a Lovely War** , if only for the fact that all the songs in it are authentic WWI songs, from both the front and the civilian side of the war. To round out what must be my longest post ever, a few mock advertisments from the British front-line satirical newspaper “The Wipers Times:” > [@](#): > > \*\*At The Cloth Hall, Ypres: > A Stirring Drama, entitled: > MINED > –A Most Uplifting Performance. > Best Ventilated Hall in the Town. Prices As Usual. > > ``` > The Johnsons. > A shout. A Scream. A Roar. > This season the Johnsons have > carried all before them, etc. > Land For Sale. > Build that House on > HILL 60 > Bright--Breezy--Invigorating > Commands an Excellent View of > Historic Town of Ypres. > For Particulars, Contact > Bosche & Co., Menin** > > ``` Of course, Hill 60 was a German defensive work, and here’s what the medaeval [Ypres Cloth Hall](http://collections.ic.gc.ca/turner/a_130.html) looked like in 1917. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/26 "2000-10-03T18:12:51Z")
So, Rodd, does this topic interest you? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/27 "2000-10-03T18:15:57Z")
World War One had GREAT songs and movies—you guys (most of you) just don’t know 'em, that’s all. What could be catchier than • How Ya Gonna Keep 'em Down on the Farm (After They’ve Seen Paree?) • Tip-Top Tipperary Mary • He’d Say Oo-la! la! Wee! Wee! • Carry Me Back to Dear Old Blighty • Where Do We Go From Here, Boys? or more tear-jerking than • Hello, Central, Give Me No-Man’s Land • Keep the Home Fires Burning • There’s a Long, Long Trail A-Winding . . . I’m getting all choked up just humming them. And movies? Not the post-war ones like “Wings” or “The Big Parade,” but great flicks made DURING the war, like “Shoulder Arms,” “Johanna Enlists,” “To Hell with the Kaiser,” Griffith’s “Hearts of the World” and “The Greatest Thing,” the drag comedy “Yankee Doodle in Berlin.” I could go on and on, and bloody well might if not gagged. Yeah, I love Betty Grable and Boogie-Woogie Bugle Boy, too, but let’s not forget All This and World War One! Now, anybody up for the Spanish-American War? ---
**Author:** ![GRJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d07c76/32.png) [@GRJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GRJ)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/28 "2000-10-03T18:28:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SeaDog \* > \*\*It’s good to see people who take an interest in the battles/wars of the past. It is too easy for us to forget the sacrafices made by our fore-fathers. > > \*\* Yes, I think that it’s quite sad to think that it will not be long before there are no WW1 veterans remaining. At least the Haig Fund is in operation to help those who defended our present and future. WW1 was better because it gave us Blackadder Goes Forth. Was that shown in the USA? ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/29 "2000-10-03T18:32:06Z")
**stuyguy** quipped: > [@](#): > > So, Rodd, does this topic interest you? You can tell I’m not married, can’t you? “Look honey, I picked up this pair of 1918 C-broad arrow marked jhodpurs, for only $350!!” As tear-jerking as “Long, Long Trail” and “Home Fires” undoubtedly are, **Eve** , I’ll have to say that the one that _always_ gets to me is Haydn Wood’s **Roses of Picardy** –which, incredibly, was written in 1913. (But then, “Tipperary” was also a pre-war tune, a knee-slapper about an Irish boy in London for the first time). ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/30 "2000-10-03T18:40:17Z")
**Eve** wrote: “Now, anybody up for the Spanish-American War?” Okay, Eve, here we go. And the rest of you too… sing, you bastards, sing… When you hear dem-a bells go ding ling ling, All join 'round, And sweetly you must sing, And when the verse am through, In the chorus all join in, There’ll be a hot time in the old town to-night!.. ---
**Author:** ![BornDodgy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@BornDodgy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BornDodgy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/31 "2000-10-03T19:13:34Z")
PENINSULA WAR!!! yeah! Anybody read ‘Adventures in the Rifle Brigade’ by Captain John Kincaid. Must have been a damn funny guy. … Gotta quote him cause I am bored: … Our men were lodged for the night in a large barn, and the officers billetted in town. Mine chanced to be on the house of a mad-woman, whose extraordinary appearance I never shall forget. Her petticoats scarcely reached to the knee, and all above the lower part of the bosom was bare; and though she looked not more than middle aged, her skin seemed as if it had been regularly prepared to receive the impression of her last will and testament; her head was defended by a chevaux-de-frise of black wiry hair, which pointd fiercely in every direction, while her eyes looked like two burnt holes in a blanket. I had no sooner opened the door than she stuck her arms a-kimbo, and, opening a mouth, which stretched from ear to ear, she began vocierating “bravo, bravissimo!” Being a stranger alike to the appearence and the manners of the natives, I thought it possible that the former might have been nothing out of the common run, and concluding that she was overjoyed at seeing her country reenforced, at that perilous moment, by a fellow upwards of six feet high, and thinking it necessary to sympathize in some degree in her patriotic feelings, I began to “bravo” too; but as her second shout ascended ten degrees and kept increasing in that ratio, until it amounted to absoulute frenzy, I faced to the right-about, and., before our tete-a-tete had lasted the brief space of three quarters of a minute, I disappeared with all possible haste, her terrific yells vibrating in my astonished ears long after I had turned the corner of the street… … I know this doesnt prove that Kincaid was funny, but I quite like that paragraph… I especially like it when they play cards with the enemy in the evening… It is so ridiculous… cause in the morning they ll start shooting each other over again… loons who is rambling again… ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/32 "2000-10-03T19:19:14Z")
Sure, keep it west of the Central Powers, why don’t you? I think, culturally, that WWI was better than WWII primarily because of the events of 1917. There was a real explosion of experimentation in the arts after the Russian Revolution which inspired many Western artists to boot. Many of the propaganda posters put out were tremendously inspiring as well. Finally, though, a government that directly expressed the will of the people (i.e. putting a stop to their country’s involvement in the war) and tried to build a world in which WWII might never have happened is one of the more admirable results of the conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/33 "2000-10-03T19:26:35Z")
Were there any WWII ANTI-war songs? Doubt it. WWI gave us [in my best imitation of Elsie Janis, the Sweetheart of the AEF): I didn’t raise my boy to be a soldier, I brought him up to be my pride and joy! Who dares to place a musket on his shoulder To shoot some other mother’s darling boy? Let nations arbitrate their future troubles It’s time to lay the gun and sword away— There’d be no war today if mothers all would say, “I didn’t raise my boy to be a soldier!” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/34 "2000-10-03T19:34:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*Sure, keep it west of the Central Powers, why don’t you? > > I think, culturally, that WWI was better than WWII primarily because of the events of 1917. There was a real explosion of experimentation in the arts after the Russian Revolution which inspired many Western artists to boot. Many of the propaganda posters put out were tremendously inspiring as well. > > Finally, though, a government that directly expressed the will of the people (i.e. putting a stop to their country’s involvement in the war) and tried to build a world in which WWII might never have happened is one of the more admirable results of the conflict. \*\* Um, yes and no. The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was a HORRIBLE humilliation to the Russians, being forced to give up a lot of territory to the Germans. The Bolshies were in the minority. REally, the reason the revolution started was because people simply wanted food. Lenin wasn’t even in the country at the time. By clothes, I meant women’s clothes… Anyhoo… I have to say though, that All Quiet on the Western Front (the original movie) was the WORST movie I have ever seen. German pickelhaube soldiers shouldn’t have Brooklyn Accents and say things like Golly Gosh Gee! And when we’re talking about slang-Don’t forget, Lunch in Paris, Dinner in St. Petersburg! ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/35 "2000-10-03T19:40:06Z")
For poets, WWII gave us Antoine Ste. Exupery, and John Gillespie Magee Jr. Both were killed in that war, so I guess WWII took them back, too. That war also gave us some of the most beautiful aircraft to ever take wing. ---
**Author:** ![magdalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@magdalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magdalene)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/36 "2000-10-03T19:41:13Z")
Olentzero, thanks for taking it “East.” If only Professor Stites were here! The Russian Revolution did pull Russia out of a devastating war, and art & culture flourished for few brief shining years - the agitprop trains, theater, the amazing & creative posters - until the artists became “inconvenient” and were locked up, shot, or forced to practice according to strict state regulations. As a result of WWI, the fledgling nations of Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, etc. rose out of the ashes of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and attempted to develop as free democracies. As a result of WWII, they became satellites of their “liberators”, the Soviet Union, who sent tanks in from time to time to keep everyone in line. Hungary, 1956. Czech Republic, 1968. So yes, WWI was DEFINITELY better than WWII. And [this](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1939pact.html) is for you, with love. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/37 "2000-10-03T19:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ukulele Ike \* > \*\* > **Duke:** This is purely from the pop culture perspective. It’s no use arguing that the Great War frontline wasn’t a sausage grinder for young men. \*\* Oops, sorry, misjudged the mood there, **Uke**. OK, from that perspective…WWI **didn’t** give us movies like “1941.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/38 "2000-10-03T20:36:29Z")
Hmmm … World War II had a casualty list 5 times as long as World War I. I guess WW2 wins. (Although WW1 **did** give us Benjamin Britten’s _War Requiem_…) ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/39 "2000-10-03T20:42:03Z")
**tracer:** Britten was born in 1913. I guess he was one of them prodigies? (Okay, I know it’s based on Owens’ poems…but I couldn’t resist.) The War Requiem was composed for the consecration of St. Michael’s Cathedral in Coventry. Was it supposed to be a memorial piece for all fallen British soldiers? Or Anti-war? Anti-Bomb? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2000, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388/40 "2000-10-03T20:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Hmmm … World War II had a casualty list 5 times as long as World War I. I guess WW2 wins. > \*\* Quite the opposite. WWI was better because fewer people died in it. One thing WWII was better for was good war games. Anyone who’s played lots of computer war games knows WWII provides every conceivable scenario for a terrific war game you could imagine. Tank battles, infantry battles, amphibious invasions, aerial warfare of every conceivable type, gigantic surface naval battles, carrier battles, submarine warfare. Winter battles, desert battles, forest battles, jungle battles, battles on beaches, over rivers, in cities. WWI was comparatively boring for war gamers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/world-war-i-was-better-than-world-war-ii/35388.md?page=3)