# Worldwide pattern of Islamic extremist attacks **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003 "2002-10-26T17:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/21 "2002-10-27T02:13:05Z")
> [@](#): > > December is asking a valid question. I’ve noticed these days that when he asks anything at all, he gets jumped all over and nitpicked to death. No he’s not. He has been asked several times what his point is and has simply continued railing against (some ill-defined segment of) Islam. The point of challenging his use of the term _fatwa_ is to demonstrate the ignorance of Islam (along with the ignorance of history) with which he opened this latest campaign of hatred against Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/22 "2002-10-27T02:14:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Take those first few snotty messages attacking him for his supposed misuse of the word ‘fatwa’. It was clear to me what December was talking about. It was clear to me what he meant in a general sense as well and I wasn’t snotty ( unless you consider the ‘inflammatory’ comment snotty, in which case I simply disagree ). But he was incorrect in his usage to the point where it made him sound ignorant. I thought a correction was perfectly in line, both for his sake and the board. > [@](#): > > We don’t need to hammer him because of nitpicking details about what ‘fatwa’ really means. I, at least, did not do any hammering. I think you are being a little oversenstive **Sam**. > [@](#): > > In this case, it was clear that he was speaking about the specific fatwa that Osama Bin Laden issued, calling on all Muslims to attack Americans and others. Maybe I’m just incredibly stupid, but I didn’t draw that conclusion. I thought he was confusing the word ‘jihad’ with ‘fatwa’. > [@](#): > > 1. How many of the terror attacks going on right now are directed by al-Qaida? Of the ones we don’t know for sure? I don’t know, since we don’t know for sure. However, although I can imagine a weak network of linkage between say the Chechen rebels and ObL ( some suppoosedly trained in his camps ), I don’t think many, if any, take orders from al-Qaida. Same for terrorists in Kashmir. Or Algeria. etc. As **tom** pointed out a diffuse structural linkage there may be ( or not ), but a strong command linkage is extremely doubtful. Remember until recently ObL was more a funding source and a facilitator. > [@](#): > > 1. Of the ones that aren’t, how many are by ‘free-lance’ radicals, who are directly responding to OSB’s fatwa? In other words, is that fatwa having an effect? Outside his narrow circle of true believers? I don’t think so. But I freely admit this is my impression only. For one thing ObL is very arguably not qualified to issue a fatwa at all, though some of his associates are. But it’s not like he has enormous theological standing in the Muslim community. > [@](#): > > Why not just accept the fact that the evidence points to this guy being motivated by hatred for the United States and being incited by the actions of al-Qaida, or maybe acting explicitly to fulfill the fatwa issued by OSB. Personally I’m of the opinion that there is little evidence to form an opinion one way or another. If it turns out he was recruited by some al-Qaida cell it won’t at all shock me. It also won’t surprise me if he is just a free-lance nut. Either way, so what? We already know al-Qaida and its ideologues are a threat. Crush them, I say. If we find a strong linkage in Bali, pursue it for all it’s worth. But I happen to think **december’s** apparent hypothesis that all Islam-centered violence in the world stems from a single over-arching source ( i.e. ObL and his fatwa ) to be based on very flimsy evidence indeed. Like none at all. What in the world do Muslim guerillas engaged in a death match with India over Kashmir ( or for that matter Muslim peasants indulging in tit-for-tat killings with Hindus in Gujarat ) have to do with ObL’s anti-Americanism? Are the Chechens mad at the Russians because they are American allies? Give me a break - it’s overreaching paranoia that is drifting into the realm of conspiracy theory. I am not an Islamophilic apologist and pacifist ( despite perhaps the opinions of some 😉 ), but _c’mon_, a little perspective is called for. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **tomndeb** _ > The Chechens spent almost 20 years fighting off the czar, only to be overwhelmed. More like 50 in the 19th century ;). Plus years of fighting in the 1780’s conquest. And they completely expelled the Russians during the first takeover attempt in 1722. Tough buggers. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/23 "2002-10-27T02:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s the difference between “crusade” and “jihad”? Muslims go ballistic upon hearing at the term “crusade” and then turn around and “jihad, jihad, jihad”. I have not seen the _same_ Muslims “go ballistic” over “crusade” while calling for _jihad_. For this discussion I will accept, for the moment, the not entirely historical use of _jihad_ to mean religious war (for which I will hold various Muslim fanatics responsible since they are the ones who used it, if incorrectly, first). However, the idiots who are calling for _jihad_ are about on a par with Robertson and Falwell (and, apparently, **december** ), choosing to identify everyone of the other faith as “bad.” The reason that there was an outcry when Dubya tripped over the word crusade was that he had already received the condolences (and public offers of assistance) from many Muslim leaders, and he chose to use the word that specifically began by meaning “let’s go kill those Muslims and take their property.” ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/24 "2002-10-27T02:41:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamerlane \* But I happen to think **december’s** apparent hypothesis that all Islam-centered violence in the world stems from a single over-arching source ( i.e. ObL and his fatwa ) to be based on very flimsy evidence indeed. As I said, the souce of Islamic terrorism may well rrelate to culture. We haven’t seen the Pope issue an encyclical calling for the killing of all heathans or the Rabbi of Chelm call for murder all the goyim. Such a thing would be unthinkable in those religions. Granted, Christianity took a different POV during the Crusades and during the Spanish Inquisition, but not today. BTW the OP’s theme is explained by columnist [Mark Steyn](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2002/10/27/do2705.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2002/10/27/ixop.html), master of sarcastic humor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Zahn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@John\_Zahn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Zahn)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/25 "2002-10-27T02:50:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > However, the idiots who are calling for _jihad_ are about on a par with Robertson and Falwell (and, apparently, **december** ), choosing to identify everyone of the other faith as “bad.” Could you tell me where December or anyone has identified everyone of the other faith as bad? I went back and re-read the OP again, and if the title wasn’t clear enough, in the same OP it stated only a “by a segment of Islam.” JZ ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/26 "2002-10-27T02:51:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \*However, the idiots …(and, apparently, **december** ), choosing to identify everyone of the other faith as “bad.” The OP carefully said, > [@](#): > > It should be understood as a war against the rest of the world by **a segment of** Islam. **tomndebb** , the fact that you overlooked what I actually wrote suggests that you may be like the people discussed in Mark Steyn’s cied article. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/27 "2002-10-27T03:04:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > December is asking a valid question. I’ve noticed these days that when he asks anything at all, he gets jumped all over and nitpicked to death. Bullshit. December is engaging in his usual drooling idiocy linking unrelated issues in some vague conspiracy mongering, although I suppose it requires some vast optimism to hope that you might be able to discern that, however dimly. > [@](#): > > Take those first few snotty messages attacking him for his supposed misuse of the word ‘fatwa’. It was clear to me what December was talking about. We don’t need to hammer him because of nitpicking details about what ‘fatwa’ really means. Indeed we do, as (a) it hardly was clear to me (b) it is harldy clear to me this great and wonderous ObL ‘fatwa’ is of any relevance **at all** to the majority of incidents listed. > [@](#): > > 1. How many of the terror attacks going on right now are directed by al-Qaida? > > 2. Of the ones that aren’t, how many are by ‘free-lance’ radicals, who are directly responding to OSB’s fatwa? In other words, is that fatwa having an effect? Neither of these questions is knowable or answerable without a rigorous survey and definition of the incidents. As the majority of items listed clearly are not in any way related to the ObL fatwa -however much your ideological comic books like to get their ignorant diapers into a twisted knot over the infamous item. Now as to this hysterical chicken little whinging: > [@](#): > > Take the case of the Washington DC snipers. Here we have a guy who claims to be a convert to Islam, who changes his last name to Muhammed, and who expresses sympathy with al-Qaida’s goals. He buys the license plates for his murder vehicle on the anniversary of the WTC attacks. (a) Last name only to Muhammed, and as (i) last name Muhammed and (ii) keeping Xian first names are **highly unorthodox** and as his general MO revolved around robberies and random murders, and his assitants to my reading of the news to date show no sign of being "Islamic Radicals"™ oh my oh fearful me, it doesn’t look terribly convincing. I further note the sympathy expressions etc I have not seen as more than rumors. In any case, it strikes me as fitting the insance malcontent rather the Islamist angle. > [@](#): > > And this guy isn’t acting alone. Not only does he have a 17-year old accomplice, Yes, his evidently equally mentally ill “son” > [@](#): > > but a 3rd person is arrested who was co-owner of the car. That suggests that this spree was not a ‘nut’, but someone motivated either by ideology or money. What? Suggests nothing of the sort, this is not an either or case Sammy boy, although your capacity to see bizarro world conspiracy connexions (e.g. in re the Sniper thread and your "theories in re the Vans and the poor Central American bastids who got busted at the phone) leads me to discount your capacity for rational analysis on this point. > [@](#): > > Given all of this, the default assumption to me should be that this IS a case of radical Islamic terrorism. The default assumption for you… well that really says it all actually. I’m sure if you could cook up an Iraq connexion you’d be even happier. Rational analysis rather indicates it makes no sense as “Islamic terrorism” and rather makes more sense as one sick fucker with 2 accomplicies, all three bound up in some free floating hate of current society, one of whom John Allen Mohammed/Williams happened to sieze on some Nation of Islamesque quasi-Islam to express himself. > [@](#): > > Yet people are doing flips and twists trying to paint these guys as something else - a disgruntled soldier with svengali powers over a young person, or a nutcase with charisma like Manson, or something similar. Why not just accept the fact that the evidence points to this guy being motivated by hatred for the United States and being incited by the actions of al-Qaida, or maybe acting explicitly to fulfill the fatwa issued by OSB. Because there is no such fucking evidence, because if one has but some familiarity with Islamist movements, nothing about this makes any fucking sense in that context, whereas the “twists” you claim are in fact the Occams razor explanation. Bloody idiocy. As for december’s last piece of … whatever regarding a comparision btw the Pope and ObL, I point out to december that the analogy exceeds even his normal levels of idiocy in analogy making as ObL is not even a trained theologian in Islamic terms - he’s just a corner preacher type issuing religious edicts in a religion where any dude, including newly converted december might do so. I really wish that some of you would start buying a clue or two in re the subject of Islam and radicalism. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/28 "2002-10-27T03:21:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > **As for december’s last piece of … whatever regarding a comparision btw the Pope and ObL, I point out to december that the analogy exceeds even his normal levels of idiocy in analogy making as ObL is not even a trained theologian in Islamic terms - he’s just a corner preacher type issuing religious edicts in a religion where any dude, including newly converted december might do so.** How would one describe this comment using **Collounsbury’s** style? What adjectives would be used? Not being **Collounsbury** , I will merely characterize it as _incomplete_. Regardless of OBL’s standing in the religious heirarchy, he has enormous popularity throughout the Muslim world, as **Collounsbury** well knows. As evidence, there was a period last year when “Osama” was the most popular name for Muslim baby boys. E.g. [OSAMA-BABY-BOOM IN NIGERIA](http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/01/08/25036.html) [A growing number of parents in Pakistan’s rugged North West Frontier Province are naming their newly-born sons after Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/390248.stm) Furthermore, set aside the Pope. **Collounsbury** knows he could not identify any widely popular Christian leader who has demanded the killing of the entire populace of some country as well as all heathens. The very idea is ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/29 "2002-10-27T03:32:53Z")
> [@](#): > > **tomndebb** , the fact that you overlooked what I actually wrote suggests that you may be like the people discussed in Mark Steyn’s cied article. No. The fact that this is your fifty-third or seventy-seventh (or some similarly high number) factually inaccurate thread in which you paint Islam with broad strokes of hatred and then throw in some weasel words to let yourself an out suggests that you do not realize that your persistence on this topic tells us much more than your little hedging phrases. After several requests in _this_ thread as to what your _point_ might be, you have continued to post _non sequitur_s and this little gem: > [@](#): > > As I said, the souce of Islamic terrorism may well rrelate to culture. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/30 "2002-10-27T03:37:13Z")
> [@](#): > > I have not seen the same Muslims “go ballistic” over “crusade” while calling for jihad. You haven’t? “Jihad against the crusaders” pretty much sums up the attitude of radical Islam these days. > [@](#): > > However, the idiots who are calling for jihad are about on a par with Robertson and Falwell (and, apparently, december), choosing to identify everyone of the other faith as “bad.” But how many “mujadeen” are there compared to how many Falwellites? The reason that there was an outcry when Dubya tripped over the word crusade was that he had already received the condolences (and public offers of assistance) from many Muslim leaders, and he chose to use the word that specifically began by meaning “let’s go kill those Muslims and take their property.” Tell that to Batman and Robin 😃 “crusade against terrorism” vs “jihad against America” It should be simple enough to tell the meaning of both terms from the context. If I were Bush I’d have said, “OK, fine. I’ll call for a ‘jihad’ against terrorism”. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/31 "2002-10-27T03:37:59Z")
Some of you are so blinded by your anti- **December** positions that if he said the sky was blue, you’d bash him. Sad. Anyway, how many Roman Catholic or Jewish leaders are calling for the deaths of anyone? Hmm, exactly ZERO. Yet, OBL, various Egyptian, Iranian, Ahfghani religious leaders HAVE called for the deaths of Jews, Americans, Infidels, take your pick. Yep, Islam is a peaceful religion. I’ll take bullshit for $200, Alex. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/32 "2002-10-27T04:16:26Z")
Maybe this is just a phase that many religions go through, a phase in which the more extreme adherents get a bit unhinged. While it’s not generally true today, Christianity has certainly gone through its “slaughter the infidels” periods. Can you say “Crusades?” Sure you can. Add to that the repeated incidents of witch-burning and inquisitions (everyone cites the Spanish Inquisition, but Torquemada was a sweetheart compared to the loonies in some other bastions of Christianity). Maybe Islam, being about 600 years younger than Christianity is, in some developmental way, about where Christianity was around 1400. I’m not really familiar with the history of Judaism, but from my admittedly limited knowledge of the Bible, it seems that there was an awful lot of bloodletting taking place. Joshua didn’t politely ask for Jericho, did he? Perhaps once the followers of a religion become more secure, less paranoid about their place in the world, they shake off the feeling that they need to either convert or kill everyone else in the world. Of course, if they were all rational atheists, there’d be none of this mindless slaughter going on, now would there?😃 Oh, and **december** , haven’t you forgotten to mention all the support the Clinton White House provided to extremist Islamic fundamentalists? Please don’t disappoint us. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/33 "2002-10-27T04:30:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Early Out \* > \*\*Of course, if they were all rational atheists, there’d be none of this mindless slaughter going on, now would there?😃 \*\* Right. We’d all be as peace-loving as Joseph Stalin. 😉 [News Update](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/10/27/wmosc27.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/10/27/ixport.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=109715) > [@](#): > > The Telegraph has learned that a number of Arab fighters, believed to be of Saudi Arabian and Yemeni origin, were among the group that seized control of the theatre. > > Russian Spetsnaz storm the theatre after shots were heard. “There were definitely Arab terrorists in the building with links to al-Qa’eda,” said a senior Western diplomat. “The Russians will now want to know how much help the Chechens received from bin Laden’s organisation.” > > Mr Putin had claimed that “foreign elements” were involved and suspicions about al-Qa’eda’s connection deepened after the Chechens broadcast a pre-recorded message on the Qatar-based al-Jazeera television network, which is frequently used by bin Laden and his lieutenants. > > The leader of the rebels was killed during the assault Russian officials said that the hostage-takers had made several calls to the United Arab Emirates during the siege. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/34 "2002-10-27T04:46:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*As I said, the souce of Islamic terrorism may well rrelate to culture. We haven’t seen the Pope issue an encyclical calling for the killing of all heathans or the Rabbi of Chelm call for murder all the goyim. Such a thing would be unthinkable in those religions. Granted, Christianity took a different POV during the Crusades and during the Spanish Inquisition, but not today. > > \*\* I forget, when Anne Coulter suggested we (“we” being Americans, I suppose) should go to the Middle East and kill their leaders, what religion did she propose we forcibly convert them to? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/35 "2002-10-27T04:53:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **Are you French, Jojo? France seems to be the worst European country for antisemitic attacks. It’s reached a point where Jews are afraid to go out in the street with symbols of their religion visible.** Red herring? Ad Hominem and Non-Sequitor at best. Poor form either way. Try to keep coherent, it keeps people from thinking you’re a raving loon. Maybe you should check into stormfront if you’re going to discount people on basis of their national origin instead of actually addressing their point. We don’t do that here. \*\* > [@](#): > > What do you make of fact that Muslims in many countries publicly cheered the 9/11 attack?\*\* Cite? And it better show large populations(at least high double-digits) in many(think double digits here as well, but the teens/twenties will do ) predominantly Muslim countries/communities. Otherwise this is ad hoc reasoning. You’re making the anti-American sentiment seem far greater than it acutally is. I’m not saying there isn’t anti-American sentiment, we’ve made our fair share of enemies, some for good reasons, some for bad, but I fail to see the outpouring of support for the fatwa OBL used to justify his activities that you seem to be so concerned about. In fact [I’ve seen the opposite](http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm) > [@](#): > > “The terrorists acts, from the perspective of Islamic law, constitute the crime of hirabah (waging war against society).” > September 27, 2001 - Fatwa, signed by: > Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar > Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d’etat, Egypt > Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari’a, Egypt > Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria > Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria > Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council Now I guess you’ll say these are not true Muslims in the same vein as my friend who wears briefs under his kilt is not a true Scotsman. > [@](#): > > \*\*but again there’s the similarity of tactic. … think part of the connection may be something about the culture. \*\* Please define what you mean by “the culture” here. I think you’ll have every bit as tough a time with this question as **Sionnach** had trying to define “White Culture”. Because if you’re trying to say this “culture” is a group we should be actively monitoring/working against, then you had better have a damn good way of identifying who, exactly, is and is not a member of this “culture”. “All Muslims” doesn’t even come close. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/36 "2002-10-27T05:20:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by milroyj \* > **Some of you are so blinded by your anti-December positions that if he said the sky was blue, you’d bash him. Sad.** Umm, I don’t think an OP which boils down to “Islam IS out to get us, I don’t care WHAT they say on the news” is quite on par with “the sky is blue” as far as obvious truths go. People taking issue with the veracity of his statement are also perfectly capable of taking issue with his attitude. One does not necessarially cause the other, although there seems to be strong correlation. Hmm, maybe because he ticks off both groups of people every time he posts stuff like this?\*\* > [@](#): > > Anyway, how many Roman Catholic or Jewish leaders are calling for the deaths of anyone? Hmm, exactly ZERO. > > Yet, OBL, various Egyptian, Iranian, Ahfghani religious leaders HAVE called for the deaths of Jews, Americans, Infidels, take your pick. > > Yep, Islam is a peaceful religion. I’ll take bullshit for $200, Alex. \*\* And various Egyptian, Iranian, Syrian, Pakistani, too many nationalities to list, [Islamic]religious leaders HAVE DENOUNCED the calls for the deaths of Jews, Americans, Infidels, take your pick. Islam is, for the most part, a peaceful religion. But the existance of extremists causes people to think otherwise. Well, guess what, the existance of an ordained minister who runs [godhatesfags.org](http://godhatesfags.org) makes Christianity look bad. Is Christianity a “culture” we should watch? After all, they produce [people like these](http://www.godhatesfags.com/images/2002/FDNY_In_Hell_3-9-2002.jpg). Peaceful? Bullshit. Approximately 20% of the world’s population is Muslim. With that as a given, here’s a statement on par with the obvious truth of “the sky is blue”. If Muslims were really accepting of OBL’s fatwa, we’d not be writing these pretty words. We’d be ducking bullets and trying to stay alive. WWIII is the least of what would happen if mainstream Islam supported OBL. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/37 "2002-10-27T05:27:39Z")
**Collounsbury:** Hey, you ever heard of speculation, buddy? Don’t you like exploring various ideas, throwing out scenarios to the board and seeing if they can dissect it? I do. I do that quite a bit. Here’s an example: I just saw a science report on TV of a new device researchers have called an ‘Ocean Glider’. It’s really cool. It’s basically a big long torpedo with wings. Its sole source of propulsion is a pump that pumps air into bouyancy tanks. It moves by gliding forwards as it sinks. Then it gets to a certain depth, blows up its bouyancy bladder, and glides on the way to the surface. When it gets to the surface, it take a GPS reading to find out where it is, and adjusts its course. These things can cross an ocean on a battery. The really cool ones power themselves from the thermal difference between the surface and deep ocean, and can go anywhere in the world, for an indefinite time. The military and various scientific agencies want to have thousands of these things patrolling the oceans, measuring temperatures, tracking currents, listening for subs, etc. So this got me thinking - this is a pretty stealthy way to get a nuke close enough to a major coastal city to take it out. These things are surprisingly low-tech - GPS and battery technology make them possible, and I’ll bet anyone with a large machine shop and some expertise could build one. It’d be easy for a government. See? So now I’m just thinking about that, because it’s interesting speculation. That doesn’t mean I’m about to run out and scream to have the oceans scoured for gliding bombs. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/38 "2002-10-27T05:39:38Z")
…or they could always train dolphins and porpoises with bombs strapped on their backs. Hope I’m not giving ideas to the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/39 "2002-10-27T05:43:07Z")
**samclem** : That was a _bad_ movie ;). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003/40 "2002-10-27T06:05:44Z")
[The Navy and dolphins.](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/whales/etc/navy.html) Read the history, declassified of course. Oh, nutty Muslims, they are starting to piss me off. One question: how many “lone nuts” doing roughly the same thing does a movement make? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worldwide-pattern-of-islamic-extremist-attacks/134003.md?page=3)