# Worse boss: Kathryn Janeway or Greg House? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183 "2010-05-12T16:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/21 "2010-05-12T17:22:48Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > How the heck did Janeway get promoted to admiral before Picard? Looks like affirmative action is alive and well in the future. I don’t know about that. But seeing as how Sulu has command of his own ship, it’s safe to assume that Starfleet did away with Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/22 "2010-05-12T17:24:54Z")
Signing up with Janeway means access to the holodeck, no? Rationed or not, count me in. Then again, I’ve seen relatively little of House, but with a modicum of documentation and care, I daresay there are plenty of lawsuits waiting to be filed. Just one would allow me to invest in holodeck research… ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/23 "2010-05-12T17:28:50Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Then again, I’ve seen relatively little of House, but with a modicum of documentation and care, I daresay there are plenty of lawsuits waiting to be filed. I feel the same way. House is a major lawsuit waiting to happen. Sure he always ends up doing the right thing. But all it takes is one pissed off and or greedy patient with a good lawyer for him and his staff to go under. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/24 "2010-05-12T17:44:28Z")
I’ve said it before - If I was on the same ship with Janeway, I’d be forced to kill her. She’d better pray (oh wait, this is the Federation!) that I’m not the transporter operator or have ready access to any weapons or potentially deadly equipment that she uses on even an infrequent basis. Tuvok: “Commander Chakotay, it appears as if the Holodeck was reconfigured to remove all safeties and introduce velociraptors and fast zombies whenever Captain Janeway was the sole occupant of the holodeck! I shall begin an investigation immediately.” Chakotay: “Sounds like a suicide to me, Lt Tuvok. Best let it be.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/25 "2010-05-12T17:48:39Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Politics. After bringing her crew back alive, Janeway would have been golden in the public eye; thus Starfleet dared not court-martial her despite the 89,641 separate reasons to do so. But nor could she be left in command of a starship. So they made her an admiral, put her in charge of R & D, and quietly circulated instructions to all captains that, if she ever gave them an order they felt obliged to disobey, there would be no repercussions whatsodamnever. I like this theory, but I think it’s a lot simpler - beyond a certain point, Starfleet just doesn’t believe in “up or out.” Promotions are elective - Riker refused promotion to captain several times. My guess is that Picard could _be_ an admiral if he wanted - but he’s not interested in the job. Janeway wanted it, she was (as you said) golden in the public eye, and so she got it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/26 "2010-05-12T17:53:41Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I like this theory, but I think it’s a lot simpler - beyond a certain point, Starfleet just doesn’t believe in “up or out.” Promotions are elective - Riker refused promotion to captain several times. My guess is that Picard could _be_ an admiral if he wanted - but he’s not interested in the job. Janeway wanted it, she was (as you said) golden in the public eye, and so she got it. I think Picard listened to what Jim Kirk said the one time they met, read up on his biography, and said, “You know, that fat old fool was right on the money.” Riker should have been shuffled to command of an ore ship after he refused the captaincy for the second time. He was creating a promotion bottleneck. (So was Data, in a way, but I think there was some genuine anti-android prejudice holding him back as much as his desire not to have to leave his picard-emulation program on all the time.) Only the Borg incident saved his career. I was tickled at his befuddlement that Jellicoe was put in command of the Enterprise rather than he, when he so clearly screwed up his career himself. The politics explanation for Janeway’s promotion wasn’t mine; I should have made that clear. I forget who came up with it, but it was a doper. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/27 "2010-05-12T18:13:17Z")
This question may best be rephrased as, ‘‘Would you like to be slowly driven to insanity or treated like family and then instantly killed for a stupid reason?’’ Janeway it is. I am way too sensitive to be working around House. I’d be a basketcase by the end of the first week. Especially because he’s so big on prying into people’s personal lives. Fuck that shit. It’s true that Janeway would probably get me killed due to her profound incompetence, but at least while I was alive I’d be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/28 "2010-05-12T18:19:06Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think Picard listened to what Jim Kirk said the one time they met, read up on his biography, and said, “You know, that fat old fool was right on the money.” > > Riker should have been shuffled to command of an ore ship after he refused the captaincy for the second time. He was creating a promotion bottleneck. (So was Data, in a way, but I think there was some genuine anti-android prejudice holding him back as much as his desire not to have to leave his picard-emulation program on all the time.) Only the Borg incident saved his career. I was tickled at his befuddlement that Jellicoe was put in command of the Enterprise rather than he, when he so clearly screwed up his career himself. > > The politics explanation for Janeway’s promotion wasn’t mine; I should have made that clear. I forget who came up with it, but it was a doper. I mostly agree, with a couple nitpicks. 🙂 Command of any seagoing vessel - and, one would assume, a spacegoing one - is a hell of a responsibility. Putting someone in that slot who doesn’t think they can hack it, for whatever reason, seems dangerous and irresponsible. Riker should have been shuffled to a desk, not to command of any sort. Also - I don’t think the Borg thing _did_ save Riker’s career, at least not right away. Didn’t the Cardassian incident (when Jellicoe took command) happen after Wolf 351? ETA: One of the things that I liked about the whole “Riker refusing promotion” thing was that both Picard and Riker’s subordinates made it very clear that they thought he was making a bad career move. This wasn’t just sloppy writing - Riker’s reluctance to take the big seat was a flaw in his character, and portrayed as such. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/29 "2010-05-12T18:23:25Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > This question may best be rephrased as, ‘‘Would you like to be slowly driven to insanity or treated like family and then instantly killed for a stupid reason?’’ > > Janeway it is. I am way too sensitive to be working around House. I’d be a basketcase by the end of the first week. Especially because he’s so big on prying into people’s personal lives. Fuck that shit. > > It’s true that Janeway would probably get me killed due to her profound incompetence, but at least while I was alive I’d be happy. That’s my take pretty much word-for-word. If my choice was rising star career eating shit with House or slow but steady progress working for someone sane, I’ll take the sane one. Life’s too short to want to kill your boss every day. I think Janeway at least tried to be a good boss. ETA: Outside of their characters, Kathryn Mulgrew is a terrible, terrible actor. She always looked like she was _acting_ on “Voyager.” ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/30 "2010-05-12T18:26:35Z")
Um, why do we hate Janeway? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/31 "2010-05-12T18:32:12Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > I mostly agree, with a couple nitpicks. 🙂 Command of any seagoing vessel - and, one would assume, a spacegoing one - is a hell of a responsibility. Putting someone in that slot who doesn’t think they can hack it, for whatever reason, seems dangerous and irresponsible. Riker should have been shuffled to a desk, not to command of any sort. > > Also - I don’t think the Borg thing _did_ save Riker’s career, at least not right away. Didn’t the Cardassian incident (when Jellicoe took command) happen after Wolf 351? What I meant is that the Borg incident was enough to keep him from getting broomed out of the service entirely, but his multiple refusals to take a command of his own put enough stink on him that Starfleet eventually became reluctant to offer him his own ship. I mean, even if I _liked_ him, I wouldn’t either. Why put the effort into it when he’d just say no? And even people out of the hierarchy noticed. Q obviously knew who Janeway was before he starting trying to get into her pants, and he noted that he’d thought Riker was ahead of her in the running to be Voyager captain until she actually got it. > [@](#): > > ETA: One of the things that I liked about the whole “Riker refusing promotion” thing was that both Picard and Riker’s subordinates made it very clear that they thought he was making a bad career move. This wasn’t just sloppy writing - Riker’s reluctance to take the big seat was a flaw in his character, and portrayed as such. Yeah, I think you have a point there. [QUOTE=IvoryTowerDenizen] ``` Um, why do we hate Janeway? ``` [/QUOTE] For murdering Tuvix, for one. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/32 "2010-05-12T18:34:12Z")
Let me just say this: I haven’t seen a single episode of the original series. I’ve seen _most_ of the Next Generation episodes (Next Gen is my favorite of the series and Picard is my favorite captain). I’ve seen nearly all the episodes of Voyager (for about two years straight in high school I would watch an episode of Voyager every night at like two in the morning before going to sleep) - not that I can remember half of them. I never thought of Janeway as incompetent. I’m sure she is incompetent (in the same way that the Jedi are incompetent in the prequel trilogy - hilariously so and obviously without the creator’s intent). But this is a new way of thinking of her for me. I’ve always thought she was like a mix of Picard and Kirk (Picard being Lawful Good, Janeway being Neutral Good and Kirk being Chaotic Good). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/33 "2010-05-12T19:06:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > For murdering Tuvix, for one. Yup. Here’s a hypo for you: Suppose you’ve got a couple dead friends. Suppose further that I make a genuinely credible promise to you that if you drag an innocent man to his death, I’ll bring your friends back to life. What would you do? Janeway’s answer is: “Well, I’d get some hard-asses from Security together, march to the innocent man’s quarters, and drag him to the transporter for dissolution. What else should I do?” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/34 "2010-05-12T19:07:57Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Yup. Here’s a hypo for you: > > Suppose you’ve got a couple dead friends. Suppose further that I make a genuinely credible promise to you that if you drag an innocent man to his death, I’ll bring your friends back to life. What would you do? Mourn my dead friend. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/35 "2010-05-12T19:15:06Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Um, why do we hate Janeway? For Gilliganing up every opportunity the ship had to get back home? Her first responsibility was to her ship and her crew. She failed miserably in that responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/36 "2010-05-12T19:48:21Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I wouldn’t mind either. House would be tough on me, but he’d also be fun. Janeway didn’t bother me one way or another. Yeah, I don’t really want to work for Greg, but I don’t hate either of them. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/37 "2010-05-12T19:59:31Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > How the heck did Janeway get promoted to admiral before Picard? Looks like affirmative action is alive and well in the future. Picard is far too smart to allow himself to be made an admiral. OTOH, I’d much rather be stuck in the Delta Quadrant with Janeway than in a job with House. At least I’d get to meet interesting aliens and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/38 "2010-05-12T23:35:22Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > OTOH, I’d much rather be stuck in the Delta Quadrant with Janeway than in a job with House. At least I’d get to meet interesting aliens and whatnot. Unfortunately, it is quite the opposite of the Space Marines. You don’t meet strange and interesting aliens and then kill them, you meet strange and interesting aliens who are quite keen on killing YOU. Double whammy, you have an unstable maniac as your Captain, who cannot keep to a consistent standard of behavior and who can always find a reason to be oh so disappointed in YOU over just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/39 "2010-05-13T00:14:35Z")
House is all touchy-feely now, so I think he would try to help me if I had personal problems. Janeway is just incompetent. I would have probably mutinied after like 3 months of being completely lost. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183/40 "2010-05-13T00:54:27Z")
See I just don’t understand why the writers of Voyager decided to make Janeway the way she was. It’s like they specifically didn’t want the show to be carried by the captain of the ship, the way that TNG and DS9 were, so they decided to make her a butthead. But I can’t think why they’d care or why they’d want to go against the mold. (Or if they were going to try and focus the attention on the greater crew, you’d think they’d have done a better job of fleshing them out and hiring decent actors for them.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-boss-kathryn-janeway-or-greg-house/539183.md?page=3)