# Worse movie: SUPERMAN RETURNS or MAN OF STEEL? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 29, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789 "2015-06-29T15:42:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/41 "2015-06-30T01:54:54Z")
I went with #3 although to be quite frank my actual response was “Get off my lawn you rotten little brat and put Linda Lovelace in there. What the Hell is wrong with kids these days?” ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/42 "2015-06-30T02:01:33Z")
Ya’ know, the one great thing about having such “unrefined” tastes is that there’s so much more out there for guys like me to enjoy. I’m really not seeing why Man of Steel is supposed to a bad movie. I’ll give you Super Man Returns though. I wouldn’t go sa far to say it was horrible, just not something I would watch more than once like I would MoS. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/43 "2015-06-30T02:08:43Z")
Superman Returns. Superman as a deadbeat dad stalking his former girlfriend is not a Superman I want to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/44 "2015-06-30T02:40:46Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > - apparently doesn’t or can’t use birth control\* **Anaamika** , for sanity’s sake, can you please make it clear they are both equally to blame for this? ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/45 "2015-06-30T04:44:51Z")
I’m not a fan of the comics (not even when I was a kid) but I don’t get the hate for _Man of Steel_. It’s exactly what it needed to be, and adult-oriented superhero film. IOW more \*The Dark Knight \*instead of the silly Marvel stuff. Feel the same way about the trailer for B v S… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/46 "2015-06-30T06:06:51Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > So you’re comparing _The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey_ to _StM_? Have you lost your goddamn mind? > > I will concede that _Fellowshi_p is a great movie, and _Towers_ a good though one, and\* Return \* tolerable so long as you’re watching it on disc so you can just skip to the scene with Sam fighting Shelob and Eowyn being generally awesome and Theoden telling his army, “Yewah, this battle is hopeless. I’m going anyway, 'cause I’m like that. Now let us go out and die like men, and if anybody feels the need to rip out an orc’s liver with his teeth I will overlook the extraagence.” But PJ squandered the good will from the first two LotR’s by turning Aragorn into some sort of weird indecisive mumbling Pompeian, and though he regained some of it with the generally well-done _King Kong_ with the big dino fault, he unredeemed himself with _The Lovely Bones_, and then he proceeded to ruin the Hobbit trilogy to such a degree that he is probably immortal because he certainly ain’t going to heaven and WILL NOT BE ALLOWED HELL! Aragorns speech in front of the Gates can stand with Henry V St. Crispins day speech. And yes, Jackson has had hits and misses- which prolific Director hasn’t? But he’s no Michael Bay. And I’ll give him a pass on Deadbeat dad, but \*not \*creepy stalker. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/47 "2015-06-30T07:07:41Z")
After careful consideration of the facts before me, I had to go with MoS as the better of the two. I will admit to getting a wee bit tired of the origin story. Just a wee. Other than that, I thought MoS was a bit more connected to reality, weird as that might sound. With all of that super strength and whatnot, you know there must have been some impressive destruction along the way. It was just off camera, so to speak. Insulated. Safe. Now it’s not safe anymore. Supe’s moved from campy to the big leagues. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/48 "2015-06-30T08:16:45Z")
I voted “Equally bad” - _SR_ has the worst fucking Lex Luthor ever, and all that kid crap. But I love, love, love the bullet-in-the-eye scene! _MoS_ has the worst Pa Kent ever (seriously - “Should I have let them die?” “Maybe…” Fuck that noise) and Superman killing someone. But I liked Zod (hated the lead-in, though, Krypton seems like a true dystopia) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/49 "2015-06-30T09:53:18Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Superman is a deadbeat dad in that movie. “Truth, Justice… and all that Stuff.” No he wasn’t! He was not aware Lois was pregnant when he left on his space pilgrimage to Krypton, and when he returned not only did he have no reason to believe humans and Kryptonians could produce offspring Lois also LIED saying he was not the father, and the child showed no obvious signs of Kryptonian parentage. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/50 "2015-06-30T11:06:29Z")
I haven’t seen _Superman Returns_ but it must be truly awful if it can be considered worse than _Man of Steel_ which I couldn’t even finish. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/51 "2015-06-30T11:32:58Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I haven’t seen _Superman Returns_ but it must be truly awful if it can be considered worse than _Man of Steel_ which I couldn’t even finish. Again, I’m really surprised at this. I get why _Superman Returns_ was disliked and underperformed. But taking it for what it was, namely a huge tribute to the Richard Donner/Chris Reeve franchise, I can accept it. I mean, I’ve only ever watched it once and have no desire to watch it again, but it was no _Superman III or IV by any means (those two are MST3K bad!) However SR still wasn’t what people wanted, nor was it a direction that should have ever been taken (restarting a 30-year-old franchise poisoned by two shit sequels!_). But _Man of Steel_ was a thoroughly modern, grown-up film. No cheesy opening credits, a non-linear storyline, no spoon-feeding the audience exposition etc. And the next film, _Batman v Superman_, finally takes into account the one enormous bit of realism that all superhero movies have totally ignored: Namely that once a truly god-like individual was known to exist the entire world and every society in it could never be the same. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/52 "2015-06-30T12:33:07Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Again, I’m really surprised at this. I get why _Superman Returns_ was disliked and underperformed. But taking it for what it was, namely a huge tribute to the Richard Donner/Chris Reeve franchise, I can accept it. You beat me to it – except I was about to make the exact opposite point. I can accept MAN OF STEEL on its own terms. Show me a bearded loner trying to figure out where he fits in, following a childhood where saving those kids on that bus led to small-minded people _freaking the hell out,_ and show me how his father chose to _die_ rather than let the world know there’s a young man with the power of a Greek god? Show me he reluctantly goes public only because it’s the only way to foil a threat to all mankind, just like he reluctantly kills when all else fails? I get where that’s not everybody’s ideal Superman. But like I was just saying, I can put that out of my mind and judge it as an interesting story on its own terms. I can’t do that with SUPERMAN RETURNS; the whole _point_ is that Brandon Routh is doing an eerily accurate Christopher Reeve impression while parroting Reeve’s famous lines, and that makes me think, _naw, that ain’t it; this reminds me of that movie where a more charming actor slept with Lois Lane and then told the President he sure is sorry and he won’t let you down again, before – leaving for five years, I guess? Dude, just shut the hell up about how air travel is statistically the safest form of travel; you don’t get to say that, right as the music comes up, without me comparing you to Reeve – and you don’t want that comparison, because, honestly, what change do you bring other than a comically undersized ‘S’ on your chest?_ I don’t get that when I’m watching Henry Cavill casually snapping his handcuffs after amiably chatting with Amy Adams. I don’t get that when he slugs the guy who was threatening Diane Lane, or when he finally wins over Christopher Meloni, or _even when he plays immovable object to deal with some loudmouth forcing his attentions on a gal in a bar,_ which would’ve pinged my radar with Routh, but Cavill gets a pass, because he’s doing his own thing. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/53 "2015-06-30T13:05:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I voted “Equally bad” - > _SR_ has the worst fucking Lex Luthor ever, and all that kid crap. But I love, love, love the bullet-in-the-eye scene! > _MoS_ has the worst Pa Kent ever (seriously - “Should I have let them die?” “Maybe…” Fuck that noise) and Superman killing someone. But I liked Zod (hated the lead-in, though, Krypton seems like a true dystopia) I liked Spacey as Luthor. I hated Pa Kent. I think Costner did the best he could with that role, but it was written as poorly as the finale. I liked Crowe better than Brando, and while that imagining of Krypton wasn’t my cup of tea, it wasn’t bad. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/54 "2015-06-30T13:17:16Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > **Anaamika** , for sanity’s sake, can you please make it clear they are both equally to blame for this? Yes! I do hold Superman to higher blame though. He sets himself as higher. He carries a higher moral code. He should have been way more careful. But yes, she should have done something too. ETA: As a “tribute” to the older films…man, they should have just left that idea on the drawing room table. First of all, if you think those movies were great (which I don’t) then you can’t match up even with a tribute. If you think they were awful (which I also don’t) then you’re just going to hate it. People like me, who enjoyed the movies, but didn’t think they were the end-all be-all, aren’t going to be impressed anyway. I mean I liked the second Superman, but they still weren’t great movies or anything. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/55 "2015-06-30T13:26:48Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I liked Spacey as Luthor. Problem I had was, it _wasn’t_ Spacey as Luthor, it was Spacey as Spacey. Michael Rosenbaum spoiled me for Luthors made of cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/56 "2015-06-30T15:11:23Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Yes! I do hold Superman to higher blame though. He sets himself as higher. He carries a higher moral code. He should have been way more careful. But yes, she should have done something too. > > ETA: As a “tribute” to the older films…man, they should have just left that idea on the drawing room table. First of all, if you think those movies were great (which I don’t) then you can’t match up even with a tribute. If you think they were awful (which I also don’t) then you’re just going to hate it. > > People like me, who enjoyed the movies, but didn’t think they were the end-all be-all, aren’t going to be impressed anyway. I mean I liked the second Superman, but they still weren’t great movies or anything. Yeah, the whole “tribute” thing is dorky to the max. I don’t go to the movie to watch “tributes.” Save that for Oscar night skits, bozos. ---
**Author:** ![Mavis\_Topholese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@Mavis\_Topholese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavis_Topholese)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/57 "2015-06-30T16:54:17Z")
they’re both pretty bad films, but Man Of Steel is so ham-fisted, so tone-deaf, and so aggressively stupid that it’s easily the worst of the two. It is the Linkin Park of superhero movies, a hyperactive angry entitled teen of a film that’s had five or ten Mountain Dews at the Subway next to the Shoney’s next to the intrusive product placement, an atonal scream of spine-snapping, of Pa Kent jerkishness, Lois Lane uselessness, of leaving out Jimmy Olsen in favor of nameless Daily Planet employees who exist to fill Jimmy Olsen’s spot, of the Giant Penis Rockets Of Krypton, of Russell Crowe’s Ghost fightin’ round the world. It’s a Superman movie made by someone who hates Superman and everything Superman ever did that was entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/58 "2015-06-30T17:54:35Z")
> [@Mavis\_Topholese](#): > > they’re both pretty bad films, but Man Of Steel is so ham-fisted, so tone-deaf, and so aggressively stupid that it’s easily the worst of the two. It is the Linkin Park of superhero movies, a hyperactive angry entitled teen of a film that’s had five or ten Mountain Dews at the Subway next to the Shoney’s next to the intrusive product placement, an atonal scream of spine-snapping, of Pa Kent jerkishness, Lois Lane uselessness, of leaving out Jimmy Olsen in favor of nameless Daily Planet employees who exist to fill Jimmy Olsen’s spot, of the Giant Penis Rockets Of Krypton, of Russell Crowe’s Ghost fightin’ round the world. It’s a Superman movie made by someone who hates Superman and everything Superman ever did that was entertaining. I don’t mind Jimmy not being in MoS. He’s 10-15 years younger than Clark (whom I’ve always taken to be several years younger than Lois; he SHOULDN’T b around when Clark is hired, EV n allowing for Clark’s late start. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/59 "2015-06-30T20:31:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t mind Jimmy not being in MoS. He’s 10-15 years younger than Clark (whom I’ve always taken to be several years younger than Lois; he SHOULDN’T b around when Clark is hired, EV n allowing for Clark’s late start. The young girl was meant to be ‘Jimmy.’ She was called Jenny Olsen in the promotional materials and on IMDB before the movie came out. Fans freaked out and they changed the last name on her name tag to something Polish. That was Jimmy, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789/60 "2015-06-30T20:57:35Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > The young girl was meant to be ‘Jimmy.’ She was called Jenny Olsen in the promotional materials and on IMDB before the movie came out. Fans freaked out and they changed the last name on her name tag to something Polish. > > That was Jimmy, though. Nothing counts unless it’s on the screen, especially if it’s CONTRADICTED by what’s on screen. Says so in the Necromonicon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worse-movie-superman-returns-or-man-of-steel/723789.md?page=4)