# Worst best friends in literature **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848 "2009-06-15T17:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/61 "2009-06-18T17:21:56Z")
In his classic novel (“The Great Gatsby”). FS Fitzgerald talks about Jay Gatz’s/Gatsby’s business partner , Meyer Wolfsheim. It isn’t clear what kind of business they were in, but it had to do with selling alcohol from pharmacies (during prohibition). Anyway, this Wolfsheim doen’t show up at Gatsby’s funeral (“I can’t get mixed up in this”)…but otherwise, seems to have been a friend of sorts. Anyway, the narrator (Nick Caraway) tries to cotact Wolfheim…only to be told “he’s in Chicago”. Was Wolfsheim a “worst friend”? ---
**Author:** ![Baby\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@Baby\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baby_Driver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/62 "2009-06-18T21:34:24Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Tom Sawyer, at the end of _Huck Finn_. What a wiener. DUDE. Yes, ye gods, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/63 "2009-06-19T00:32:19Z")
> [@tr0psn4j](#): > > Mercutio never seemed like that great of a friend to Romeo. Or was Juliet his best friend? She was no good either. Honestly, I think Mercutio is a decent friend, in that teenage boy mocking kinda way. He’s trying to get Romeo to snap out of his funk, dragging him to parties, telling him stories, etc. It’s Romeo who’s not such a great friend. At first, he’s moping pathetically over Rosaline and puts a damper on any fun or merriment that anyone tries to have. Shortly thereafter, he’s so madly in love with Juliet that he interferes in Mercutio’s duel with Juliet’s extremely hostile cousin Tybalt. The result is that Tybalt fatally stabs Mercutio under Romeo’s blocking arm. Good work! I would offer Lancelot as a crappy best friend to Arthur, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Animastryfe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Animastryfe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Animastryfe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/64 "2009-06-19T00:38:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You are confusing Holmes & House. Among other things, later stories reveal that, when Watson was low on cash (his medical practice wasn’t the most successful), Holmes helped him get clients without telling him, thus supporting him financially without taking credit (and risking his friend’s pride). > > I can recall two instances in which Holmes came close to treating Watson like shit. > > At Reichenbach Falls, he lied to him to keep him from coming along for the final duel with Moriarty, because he knew he was going to die; that Moriarty would bring backup; that Watson, not currently a target, would become one if he came along; and that Watson, told the truth, would insist on coming. That lie was justified. Also, he once accidentally hurt Watson’s feelings by detailing the history of his brother’s descent into alcholism, poverty, and death–but that was an accident, and as soon as Holmes realized what was going on he was aghast and apologized. Also, when Watson was selling his practice and coming back to live with Holmes, Holmes had one of his distant cousins buy the practice for the largest sum that Watson dared ask and provided the money himself. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/65 "2009-06-19T01:09:25Z")
> [@Animastryfe](#): > > Also, when Watson was selling his practice and coming back to live with Holmes, Holmes had one of his distant cousins buy the practice for the largest sum that Watson dared ask and provided the money himself. I don’t think you need the “also” there; you are remembering correctly what I had mangled. Try a _rather_, instead. Maybe even a \*Um, Skaldimus, are you high, dude? \*\*This \*_is what happened…_ :smack: ---
**Author:** ![friggae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/45deac/32.png) [@friggae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friggae)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/66 "2009-06-19T09:40:42Z")
In the same era as Holmes, AJ Raffles is a “gentleman thief” who frequently tricks his innocent friend “Bunny” Manders into committing numerous burglaries. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/67 "2009-06-19T13:37:29Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Ooo, what about Thomas Beckett & Henry? Do they count? Anybody? I’m not entirely sure if they count, since though they were good friends, it was kind of Henry’s own fault from his hubris. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/68 "2009-06-19T17:07:10Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > There’s also Brutus, though that may not count as literature. Pretty sure William Shakespeare counts as literature. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/69 "2009-06-19T17:38:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Pretty sure William Shakespeare counts as literature. I’m just sayin’ because it’s, y’know, based on a true story and all. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/70 "2009-06-19T18:00:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I can recall two instances in which Holmes came close to treating Watson like shit. > > At Reichenbach Falls, he lied to him to keep him from coming along for the final duel with Moriarty, … Also, he once accidentally hurt Watson’s feelings by detailing the history of his brother’s descent into alcholism, poverty, and death… Pish-posh. The worst entry in Holmes’ ledger is when he apparently came down with a virulent illness (“Tapanuli fever”) in [The Adventure of the Dying Detective](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8797/STORIES/sh-dyin1.html): > [@](#): > > Again I advanced, but he repulsed me with a look of furious anger. “If you will stand there I will talk. If you do not you must leave the room.” > I have so deep a respect for the extraordinary qualities of Holmes that I have always deferred to his wishes, even when I least understood them. But now all my professional instincts were aroused. Let him be my master elsewhere, I at least was his in a sick room. > “Holmes,” said I, “you are not yourself. A sick man is but a child, and so I will treat you. Whether you like it or not, I will examine your symptoms and treat you for them.” > He looked at me with venomous eyes. > “If I am to have a doctor whether I will or not, let me at least have someone in whom I have confidence,” said he. > “Then you have none in me?” > “In your friendship, certainly. But facts are facts, Watson, and, after all, you are only a general practitioner with very limited experience and mediocre qualifications. It is painful to have to say these things, but you leave me no choice.” > I was bitterly hurt. … Holmes had his reasons for so treating his loyal friend this way, of course, but I won’t make a spoiler of it here (especially since I’ve already given a link to the full text of the public domain story). As for the topic at hand: how about the little boy in Shel Silverstein’s _The Giving Tree_? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/71 "2009-06-19T18:43:40Z")
Melanie Hamilton Wilkes stuck by Scarlett O’Hara like a cockleburr, fighting the Yankees, war, poverty, society and even her own blood kin. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/72 "2009-06-19T18:46:58Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Pish-posh. The worst entry in Holmes’ ledger is when he apparently came down with a virulent illness (“Tapanuli fever”) in [The Adventure of the Dying Detective](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/8797/STORIES/sh-dyin1.html): That is a post-Reichenbach Falls adventure; therefore I don’t acknowledge that it happened. 😃 > [@](#): > > As for the topic at hand: how about the little boy in Shel Silverstein’s _The Giving Tree_? I think of TGT as a cautionary tale about being taken advantage of by people you love who don’t love you back. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/73 "2009-06-19T19:19:01Z")
I’m suprised I’m the first to bring this up but I think Gene was pretty damn horrible to Phineas in A Seperate Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/74 "2009-06-20T00:02:51Z")
> [@Animastryfe](#): > > Also, when Watson was selling his practice and coming back to live with Holmes, Holmes had one of his distant cousins buy the practice for the largest sum that Watson dared ask and provided the money himself. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/75 "2009-06-20T03:30:39Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > [Re: when Watson was selling his practice and coming back to live with Holmes, Holmes had one of his distant cousins buy the practice for the largest sum that Watson dared ask and provided the money himself]Cite? From [The Adventure of the Norwood Builder](http://sherlock-holmes.classic-literature.co.uk/the-adventure-of-the-norwood-builder/), published in 1903 as part of “The Return of Sherlock Holmes”: > [@](#): > > At the time of which I speak Holmes had been back for some months, and I, at his request, had sold my practice and returned to share the old quarters in Baker Street. A young doctor, named Verner, had purchased my small Kensington practice, and given with astonishingly little demur the highest price that I ventured to ask – an incident which only explained itself some years later when I found that Verner was a distant relation of Holmes’s, and that it was my friend who had really found the money. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/76 "2009-06-20T15:15:22Z")
Carroway and Gatsby? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/77 "2009-06-20T16:15:07Z")
Has anyone mentioned Lex Luthor yet? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/78 "2009-06-20T16:19:49Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Has anyone mentioned Lex Luthor yet? I’d say he doesn’t qualify. Whatever else you can say about him, he was always honest with Kal. When they were friends, Lex worked at it, going so far as to devise a cure for kryptonite; when the friendship was over (whether or not you think that was justified or not), he was upfront about that too. Clark from Smallville is a pretty bad friend, when you think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Pyper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pyper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848/79 "2009-06-21T00:53:34Z")
> [@choie](#): > > [spoiler]But the “worst best friends” I mean are the so-called Marauders, i.e. James, Sirius, Remus and Peter. On the plus side, there’s no doubt that James, Sirius and Peter behaved generously by learning to become Animorphmagi to keep Remus company; they kept his secret for quite a while, too. Sirius clearly thought the world of James and, I expect, vice versa. > > On the downside: James and Sirius seemed to have looked on Peter with benign contempt, like smug, benevolent celebrity rockstars bestowing grace upon a roadie. Meanwhile, Sirius callously pulled a ‘prank’ on Snape hoping to let Werewolf!Remus attack/scare Snape, apparently not giving a crap that if Werewolf!Remus killed Snape, it would _at least_ result in Remus being tossed out of Hogwarts, and quite possibly imprisoned if not outright executed. (Not to mention that gentle Remus would’ve been personally devastated.) After graduating, Sirius (possibly due to Peter’s influence) believed Remus was a spy, and apparently convinced James that Remus was untrustworthy, which is what led to Peter being the Secret Keeper in the first place. There appears to have been a rift between James/Sirius/Peter and Remus, evidenced by the distance between them in the photo of the Order of the Phoenix; this may have been because of Peter’s trying to stir up suspicion. And of course, all this led up to Peter performing the ultimate act of betrayal that got James and his wife killed, Sirius arrested and basically tortured for the crime, and Remus left friendless & alone. > > Whew. With best friends like these…![/spoiler] It was in _The Order of the Phoenix_ that I realized that Sirius was actually a complete asshole, and J.K. Rowling intended him to be so, based on his treatment of Kreacher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-best-friends-in-literature/499848.md?page=3)