Worst Bond Movie

Wasn’t that a re-make of Thunderball? Never Say Never and Casino Royale are the only Bond films I don’t have. I’ve read that the DVD of NSN is missing a scene, so I can’t bring myself to buy it. I haven’t seen Casino Royale offered on DVD, but then I haven’t looked recently. I read the book not too long ago.

Dammit, we simply can’t count Casino Royale. It’s totally not official, or something. :slight_smile:

I actually like the Moore ones overall, mostly because he was allowed to grow into the role, something that certainly hindered Lazenby. But by the end of his run, Moore was too old, too familiar, and too stodgy. Dalton, for me, was just too damn serious.

Connery is the quintessential Bond, and Brosnan’s a good update.

Okay, I’ll share my rankings:

Great Bond
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
Licence To Kill

Good Bond
Dr. No
The Living Daylights
Die Another Day
For Your Eyes Only
Never Say Never Again
The World Is Not Enough
The Spy Who Loved Me
Tomorrow Never Dies

Okay Bond
GoldenEye
Thunderball
Casino Royale
Moonraker
Octopussy

Not-so-good Bond
You Only Live Twice
Diamonds Are Forever
A View To A Kill
Live And Let Die
The Man With The Golden Gun

Never Say Never Again was not produced by EON, and therefore is not considered a “real” Bond film. Same with the spoof Casino Royale.

Kirk

Man you guys really know your 007. I’ve seen everyone of them, some of them several times. Some are good and some stink to high heaven.

But, you know what…maybe I’ve seen them too much, because I can barely separate them anymore. They are all pretty much the same movie w/ just a few new gadgets and a different pair of tits.
There’s one on right this minute(Brosnan)…in my den, via public broadcast, no cable or dish for me…:frowning:

That’s Goldeneye, t-keela. Had 'er pegged when I turned it on. :wink:

Yeah, I saw it a couple of weeks ago…think I’ll skip it tonight, and my old lady’s taping some damn Swartznegger Christmas flick…think I’ll go fix me margarita and have a cigar.

I’ll have that margarita shaken, not stirred.:smiley:

Rankings, based on the ones I’ve seen. Ones I haven’t seen have been deleted:

Great Bond
From Russia With Love
Dr. No
The Living Daylights
Goldeneye

Good Bond
The World Is Not Enough
Tomorrow Never Dies
Thunderball
You Only Live Twice

Okay Bond
The Man With The Golden Gun

Horrible, Horrible Bond
Moonraker
Diamonds Are Forever
Live And Let Die

Of the worst of the worst, definetly Moonraker. 2 hours of pure, absolute pain.

As for Bond actors here’s my list, with Lazenby excluded since I never say On Her Majesty’s Secret Service:

Connery
Brosnan
Dalton
Moore

My 0.02.

Casino Royale was just beyond awful as both a Bond movie and a film. Yuck, yuck, ewww. A lousy spoof and a hopeless waste of money.

Well, it is sort of hard to see as a Bond film when David Niven, Peter Sellers and Woody Allen (among others) take on the James Bond (OK, Allen was “Jimmy” Bond which is sort of different, I guess) name during the film.

I look forward to the day when technology permits us to watch David Niven in his prime as James Bond. I would bet he might well be the best.

TV

Not technically. In 1959, Ian Fleming had six Bond novels to his credit and MGM was starting to make serious bids for movie rights (MGM’s first Bond movie was Dr. No in 1962). Fleming no doubt still regretted the pittance he’d accepted for the film rights to his first Bond novel “Casino Royale” (made into a forgettable and inaccurate TV movie in 1954) and wanted some serious cash this time. To that end, he started working out an original film treatment with Kevin McClory and Jack Whittingdon, using a comical short story slapped together by Ernest Cuneo, who was visualizing a Bond movie consisting of little more than a few hundred celebrity cameos. Fleming, McClory and Whittingdon kept a few of Cuneo’s ideas, like underwater battles, and added concepts like SPECTRE, Blofeld, hijacking two A-bombs and hiding them in Nassau in order to blackmail the world, etc. This was all well and good, but the situation became immensely complicated when Fleming took those concepts and wrote up the novel “Thunderball” in 1961. Since MGM had an existing contract with Fleming to option all of his novels (except “Casino Royale”), MGM not unreasonably made a claim on “Thunderball.” McClory kicked up quite a fuss, since he’d anticipated negotiating with other studios, and the legal wrangling was finally settled in 1963. MGM could make the movie Thunderball (with McClory co-producing) and the line “based on a screen treatment by Kevin McClory, Jack Whittingham, and Ian Fleming” had to be in the credits (as well as on the covers of all published copies of the novel). McClory kept the rights to Blofeld, etc, but agreed not to produce his own rival Bond movie for at least ten years after Thunderball’s 1965 release.

Fleming died shortly after the settlement, in 1964, and this made the issue even more complicated. By this time, the films Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger had been huge successes and the market for Bond movies was proven. Fleming’s death meant there would be no more original material to draw on, so even his work-product scribblings on “Thunderball” were hot items.

In 1976, McCloy worked the Blofeld concepts into a new(ish) script (collaborating with Len Deighton and Sean Connery) that eventually (after more legal wrangling) was used for Never Say Never Again, 1983. During this time, MGM dropped the Blofeld character (literally, at the beginning of For Your Eyes Only, 1981, in a clear “screw you” gesture to McClory). Sony Pictures even got into the act in 1997 with an announcement that they would produce the rival Bond movies McClory had been hinting at for over 20 years. MGM called their lawyers immediately, and the wagons have been circling ever since.

It’s fair to say that Never Say Never Again is not a remake of Thunderball, but that both movies are drawn from a common source. McClory’s a loudmouth, but if any single person is to blame for this legal hassle, I would have to pick Fleming for not keeping his paperwork straight. It’s reasonably understandable, though. In 1959, none of the movies had yet been made and no-one could have predicted that the franchise would get MGM over $3 billion.

If the copyright expires as per EU convention, seventy years after the artist’s death, James Bond becomes public domain in 2034. By then, McClory’s claims will finally be moot. I suspect in 2034, we’ll be having this discussion and debating who the best Bond actor was from the list: Sean Connery, George Lazenby, Roger Moore, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, Russel Crowe or Daniel Radcliffe. We’ll have to debate whether or not Eric Sullivan’s performance in the non-MGM 2026 film I Told You NEVER, Dammit! (based on a screen treatment by Kevin McClory, Jack Whittingham, and Ian Fleming) counts.

Ref: Inside Thunderball by John Cork.

On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is marred by Lazenby’s unskilled performance (though I think he would have gotten better at the role, given a chance) though the movie is actually very well written and among the most faithful to Fleming’s novels. The subsequent Diamonds are Forever was just awful (why are American characters always portrayed as idiots?)
If I was going to group them:

Great Bond
Dr. No
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
Octopussy (highly underrated Cold War classic)

Good Bond
Thunderball
On Her Majesty’s Secret Service (Great Bond, if Connery had been in it)
For Your Eyes Only
License to Kill
Goldeneye
Tomorrow Never Dies
The World Is Not Enough

Indifferent Bond
You Only Live Twice
The Living Daylights

Bad Bond
Diamonds Are Forever
Live And Let Die
The Man With The Golden Gun
The Spy Who Loved Me/Moonraker (same basic plot)
A View to a Kill