# Worst case of "manager speak" you've heard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 13, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589 "2014-03-13T01:58:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/181 "2014-03-19T12:47:45Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > According to Merriam-Webster, [“incentivize”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incentivize) was first used in 1970 and [“incent”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incent) was first used in 1981, so by whatever weird metric you’re using (unless that metric is “shorter is better”), incentivize is “more correct”. 11 years older, in etymological terms, is a mere blink of an eye. Both are recently made up words. [This](http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/06/to-incent-and-incense.html) description sums up my feelings on the subject: > [@](#): > > “Incent” is what’s known as a back-formation, in this case formed from “incentive.” And it’s worth noting that the word didn’t appear in the preceding editions of either dictionary (though the even uglier “incentivize” did). Definitely uglier. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/182 "2014-03-19T13:02:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I was once told “You’re a good interface.” I’m pretty sure that’s the day I died inside. What do you think I say to get laid? Not that it works, of course. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/183 "2014-03-19T14:31:48Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > “Hard stop” is fairly common. It’s typically understood that there is a stopping point that is not flexible. Meetings often run back to back, for 4-8 hours straight. If you are running into time on one meeting but need to wrap up, often you can go over just a bit and it’s no big deal. You’ll be late to the next meeting, but so will others and that’s common. > > If you tell people you have a hard stop, that means that you will not go over, even if you are in the middle of discussion. This is mostly used if a person has another meeting with a more senior person, or they have some external appointment they can’t miss, or have to pick up their children, etc. I know what it means. It just sounds silly. Why not just say “I have to stop” or “I have another appointment”? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/184 "2014-03-19T14:46:15Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > According to Merriam-Webster, [“incentivize”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incentivize) was first used in 1970 and [“incent”](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/incent) was first used in 1981, so by whatever weird metric you’re using (unless that metric is “shorter is better”), incentivize is “more correct”. > > Yeah, but “incite” has a horribly negative connotation. The only times I can ever think of “incite” being used are in phrases as wonderful as “incite chaos”, “incite a riot”, and other fossilized negative expressions like that. You **might** be able to get away with “incite change”, but that’s about the closest you can get to a positive connotation with that word. > > And FWIW, I was born in 1989 and had no idea until this thread that “incentivize” was a neologism. I just did a straw poll of a several of my similar-aged friends and, keeping in mind anecdotes are not data, all of them just thought of it as a word, and not in any way business-speak. The definition most of them came up with off the cuff was in the realm of “to encourage or motivate with an explicit, well-defined, concrete reward.” The problem for many in the corporate world is a lack of English reading outside of their field. This is the purpose of a liberal arts education…to expose you to literature of the past and expand your vocabulary, \*not \*so that you can read Jane Austin without having to look up every other word. It is to make you ‘literate’. And yes, ‘incite’ is the right word if you must use a verb. [http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?volno=04&page=367&query=incite](http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?volno=04&page=367&query=incite) Note in the etymology, ‘serving to incite’: [http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?volno=04&page=364&query=incentive](http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?volno=04&page=364&query=incentive) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/185 "2014-03-19T15:14:05Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I know what it means. It just sounds silly. Why not just say “I have to stop” or “I have another appointment”? Because it communicates a different message. It is simultaneously a more forceful way to end a conversation and a non-rude way to cut someone off, regardless of the content of what is being discussed. It’s usage is different, so the phrasing is different. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/186 "2014-03-19T15:27:46Z")
“Ask” is a specific and useful word for me because people’s natural tendency is to waffle around and vaguely imply an ask because the act of asking is socially uncomfortable. I see emails and memos all the time with no clear ask and saying “you forgot to include the ask” conveys a precise and specific thing that needs to be fixed. eg: “The north east cooling tower is showing signs of cracking. If cracks were to develop, it would cause the closure of the north east plant until the cracks were repaired. A remediation team would be able to inspect the cooling tower and determine if cracking is likely to occur and possible further steps.” This is a memo without an ask. If you skim quickly, it seems to heavily imply that it’s asking for something but notice how it’s comprised of purely factual, informational statements. That’s because writing background is always easier than writing the ask. It needs to be amended with the following: “We are asking for a budget of $50,000 to conduct a pilot study and determine if a remediation team is necessary at this point. The pilot study would be performed by XYZ contractors for a duration of 3 weeks.” Now imagine that, except the original document is 3 pages long instead of 3 sentences. I can’t think of another word that conveys the idea with such specificity except by using the word “ask”. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/187 "2014-03-19T15:39:22Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > “Ask” is a specific and useful word for me because people’s natural tendency is to waffle around and vaguely imply an ask because the act of asking is socially uncomfortable. I see emails and memos all the time with no clear ask and saying “you forgot to include the ask” conveys a precise and specific thing that needs to be fixed. > > eg: > > “The north east cooling tower is showing signs of cracking. If cracks were to develop, it would cause the closure of the north east plant until the cracks were repaired. A remediation team would be able to inspect the cooling tower and determine if cracking is likely to occur and possible further steps.” > > This is a memo without an ask. If you skim quickly, it seems to heavily imply that it’s asking for something but notice how it’s comprised of purely factual, informational statements. That’s because writing background is always easier than writing the ask. > > It needs to be amended with the following: > > “We are asking for a budget of $50,000 to conduct a pilot study and determine if a remediation team is necessary at this point. The pilot study would be performed by XYZ contractors for a duration of 3 weeks.” > > Now imagine that, except the original document is 3 pages long instead of 3 sentences. I can’t think of another word that conveys the idea with such specificity except by using the word “ask”. ‘Inquiry’, ‘question’, ‘request’, ‘proposal’ all work well there. ‘Ask’ ain’t a noun (except in the sense ‘newt’). [http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?volno=01&page=0337&query=ask](http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?volno=01&page=0337&query=ask) [http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?djvuurl=http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/01/INDEX.djvu&page=338&zoom=25&totalpages=880&format=htmlimage&label=Volume+1](http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/djvu2jpgframes.php?djvuurl=http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictionary.com/01/INDEX.djvu&page=338&zoom=25&totalpages=880&format=htmlimage&label=Volume+1) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/188 "2014-03-19T15:42:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Because it communicates a different message. It is simultaneously a more forceful way to end a conversation and a non-rude way to cut someone off, regardless of the content of what is being discussed. > > It’s usage is different, so the phrasing is different. Maybe I’m wishy washy, but I sort of like “I can’t let this meeting run long, I have another commitment” - That seems much less rude (much less forceful and more words) than hard stop. But then, if I were trying to cement my image as a hard ass for whom efficiency in words was important - “hard stop” would be a lovely way to communicate I get it, I understand what it means, and I’ve very likely used the phrasing myself on MULTIPLE occasions (I did project management prior to my current sabbatical, semi-retirement, whatever the hell I’m doing, so very likely I said more than once “does anyone have a hard stop or can we let this run long?”) But I also get why it would rub people wrong. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/189 "2014-03-19T15:54:06Z")
“Close hold” popped up in my awareness last year. As in “That document I sent you should be close hold until the new policy is finalized.” So saying “don’t circulate” or “limit distribution” is too difficult now? ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/190 "2014-03-19T15:55:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “Close hold” popped up in my awareness last year. As in “That document I sent you should be close hold until the new policy is finalized.” > > So saying “don’t circulate” or “limit distribution” is too difficult now? Or ‘confidential’? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/191 "2014-03-19T16:48:00Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > “Ask” is a specific and useful word for me because people’s natural tendency is to waffle around and vaguely imply an ask because the act of asking is socially uncomfortable. I see emails and memos all the time with no clear ask and saying “you forgot to include the ask” conveys a precise and specific thing that needs to be fixed. “Question” is a specific and useful word for me because people’s natural tendency is to waffle around and vaguely imply a question because the act of asking is socially uncomfortable. I see emails and memos all the time with no clear question and saying “you forgot to include the question” conveys a precise and specific thing that needs to be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/192 "2014-03-19T16:53:06Z")
If you’ve ever worked for someone who uses broken english but likes to sound official, you will understand what these words are: potacall antapenuer eckstablished ---
**Author:** ![Whammo72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Whammo72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whammo72)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/193 "2014-03-19T17:06:11Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > “Deep dive” is my new nemesis. I’ve gone my whole life without diving into anything, and suddenly I’m deep diving all over the place. Yes, but do you possess the skills to do a “high level deep dive”? ---
**Author:** ![Whammo72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Whammo72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whammo72)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/194 "2014-03-19T17:08:48Z")
I’m going to promote we go down a path of project sustainability and implement a cohesive matrix and dispense the data out at a high level on a need to know basis. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/195 "2014-03-19T17:15:50Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > I see emails and memos all the time with no clear ask and saying “you forgot to include the ask” conveys a precise and specific thing that needs to be fixed. “You forgot to include specifics.” “You forgot to request/demand action.” > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “Close hold” popped up in my awareness last year. As in “That document I sent you should be close hold until the new policy is finalized.” “That document I sent you should be _closely held_ until we learn verb tenses.” ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/196 "2014-03-19T17:53:05Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > How do these things get started, anyway? Is there some executive YouTube channel where upper management gets the newest buzzwords from? Twenty-ish years ago I had a boss that read a new management book about every 4 months. So we’d all start on Total Quality Management, get a couple months in, then stop that because he just read 14,000 Habits of Highly Effective Managers and he now had a better way to “improve” our product. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/197 "2014-03-19T19:41:22Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > Twenty-ish years ago I had a boss that read a new management book about every 4 months. So we’d all start on Total Quality Management, get a couple months in, then stop that because he just read 14,000 Habits of Highly Effective Managers and he now had a better way to “improve” our product. Lather, Rinse, Repeat. Yep. It’s not just books, though. In my field at least, administrators go to seminars and conferences where some huckster [del]cons[/del] convinces them that this new system is the cutting edge in management and will result in big leaps in performance. Then they shell out big bucks to get the rest of the administrative staff trained, and then the staff tries to train all the underlings. We underlings pretend we’re on board until the bosses are out of the room, then we go back to doing things how we’ve always done it. We’re on about a 3-4 year cycle. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/198 "2014-03-19T22:19:07Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > … the connotation that includes “make excuses for” … That is what I agreed they were saying. I went through two meetings today, and no-one used a buzzword. I was kind of disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/199 "2014-03-20T00:00:51Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > ‘Inquiry’, ‘question’, ‘request’, ‘proposal’ all work well there. ‘Ask’ ain’t a noun (except in the sense ‘newt’). “Wouldn’t it be great if cancer were cured forever? That’s what our landmark study hopes to accomplish. Our proposal is for a multi-disciplinary team to convincingly combat this problem. We request your support on this matter and we were wondering if that would be possible?” Has an inquiry, a question, a request and a proposal but no ask. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/200 "2014-03-20T00:17:09Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Has an inquiry, a question, a request and a proposal but no ask. And yet replying with “what’s the ask?” is likely to only confuse the recipient. Presumably, the listener wants to know the specific kind of support requested–financial, etc.–and what quantity. _So ask that_. Just saying “what’s the ask” is a passive-aggressive douche move that makes the recipient vaguely uncomfortable and uncertain of what the person is looking for. Maybe that’s the goal, but if so it just reinforces all the stereotypes of bad managers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589.md?page=11)