# Worst case of "manager speak" you've heard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 13, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589 "2014-03-13T01:58:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/201 "2014-03-20T01:07:31Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > “Wouldn’t it be great if cancer were cured forever? That’s what our landmark study hopes to accomplish. Our proposal is for a multi-disciplinary team to convincingly combat this problem. We request your support on this matter and we were wondering if that would be possible?” > > Has an inquiry, a question, a request and a proposal but no ask. It probably does, and it’s probably money. ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/202 "2014-03-20T01:10:28Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The verb for ‘incentive’ is ‘incite’. No, it’s “incent.” Sadly, though, I have to concede that it’s a back formation and “incentivize” came first. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/203 "2014-03-20T01:12:05Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > “Wouldn’t it be great if cancer were cured forever? That’s what our landmark study hopes to accomplish. Our proposal is for a multi-disciplinary team to convincingly combat this problem. We request your support on this matter and we were wondering if that would be possible?” > > Has an inquiry, a question, a request and a proposal but no ask. So? All I am saying is that making ‘ask’ a noun in unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/204 "2014-03-20T01:13:12Z")
> [@tenacious\_j](#): > > No, it’s “incent.” Sadly, though, I have to concede that it’s a back formation and “incentivize” came first. :mad: No, the verb is ‘incite’. You might try doing some research and look things up. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/205 "2014-03-20T01:17:07Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > So? All I am saying is that making ‘ask’ a noun in unnecessary. So? What a sad world it would be if we only did what was necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/206 "2014-03-20T01:17:40Z")
“Convincingly combat” is even worse than “what’s the ask?” I hope that paragraph is fiction, made up as an example. Help us cure cancer. Send money. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/207 "2014-03-20T01:27:03Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > So? What a sad world it would be if we only did what was necessary. The usage is unfamiliar and creates confusion. It calls attention to itself and shows that the speaker cannot bother to learn and use his native tongue. It shows disrespect for the hearer. ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/208 "2014-03-20T02:01:28Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, the verb is ‘incite’. You might try doing some research and look things up. yeah, I did. But since you’re being kind of an ass about it, which I think has been mentioned already upthread, I’ll show you what I found. Definition of INCITE- : to move to action : stir up : spur on : urge on Middle French inciter, from Latin incitare, from in- + citare to put in motion — more at cite Definition of INCENT- : incentivize Middle English, from Late Latin incentivum, from neuter of incentivus stimulating, from Latin, setting the tune, from incentus, past participle of incinere to play (a tune), from in- + canere to sing Now let’s get this thread back on track. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/209 "2014-03-20T02:02:08Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The usage is unfamiliar and creates confusion. It calls attention to itself and shows that the speaker cannot bother to learn and use his native tongue. It shows disrespect for the hearer. Um, if everyone in industry uses the same language, then who is confused? There is technical language I wouldn’t use in every day conversation that is absolutely appropriate in my work environment. Everything from scientific terms to the language of education. If everyone is using it at work, who exactly is confused? No one is suggestion that this is the language you use at a cocktail party. Some of it sounds dopey to my ears, as I imagine some of my jargon would, but I’m not the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/210 "2014-03-20T02:07:12Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Um, if everyone in industry uses the same language, then who is confused? There is technical language I wouldn’t use in every day conversation that is absolutely appropriate in my work environment. Everything from scientific terms to the language of education. > > If everyone is using it at work, who exactly is confused? No one is suggestion that this is the language you use at a cocktail party. > > Some of it sounds dopey to my ears, as I imagine some of my jargon would, but I’m not the audience. Jargon seems to be more popular in the US than in England or elsewhere. This does us no credit. I refuse to use it, in any context, and I have had the opportunity. Engineers do it, government agencies do it, you name it. There is a difference between technical terms and jargon. I suppose someone could say ‘Ks’ instead of kilowatts… ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/211 "2014-03-20T02:29:05Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > The usage is unfamiliar and creates confusion. It calls attention to itself and shows that **the speaker cannot bother to learn and use his native tongue.** It shows disrespect for the hearer. I would disagree with the bolded section. I think people use the terms to demonstrate a determination to break the rules, not ignorance of them. The terms are not used to improve communication, but to demonstrate power, or, at the least, an association with those with power. If I may, it’s really just another form of wienie-wagging. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/212 "2014-03-20T02:35:54Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > There is a difference between technical terms and jargon. > > I suppose someone could say ‘Ks’ instead of kilowatts… No. Jargon is simply specialized language and includes technical language: > [@](#): > > Special words or expressions that are used by a particular profession or group and are difficult for others to understand: > [http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american\_english/jargon](http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/jargon) And even within technical fields there is jargon that is not technical language. Many technical terms are abbreviated ir turned into phrases that are no longer purely technical. Such as using clicks for kilometers. Certainly within higher ed there is plenty of jargon used as well. I get it. You don’t like it. But dismissing people’s experiences who find it useful or not a problem is kind of rude. You’re basically telling them that you know better than they do about their own life. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/213 "2014-03-20T02:42:14Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > No. Jargon is simply specialized language and includes technical language: > > And even within technical fields there is jargon that is not technical language. Many technical terms are abbreviated ir turned into phrases that are no longer purely technical. Such as using clicks for kilometers. Certainly within higher ed there is plenty of jargon used as well. > > I get it. You don’t like it. But dismissing people’s experiences who find it useful or not a problem is kind of rude. You’re basically telling them that you know better than they do about their own life. Jargon includes technical language, but it also includes what is merely ‘code’ (intended to mark one as an initiate), shorthand, or euphemism. I know what ‘jargon’ means. And ‘rude’ my protests certainly are not. There are many articles and books that deride and criticize the practice. Start with _Modern English Usage_ by Fowler. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/214 "2014-03-20T02:58:46Z")
Here is something of interest: [http://www.forbes.com/sites/groupthink/2012/01/26/the-most-annoying-pretentious-and-useless-business-jargon/](http://www.forbes.com/sites/groupthink/2012/01/26/the-most-annoying-pretentious-and-useless-business-jargon/) ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/215 "2014-03-20T04:13:04Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > And yet replying with “what’s the ask?” is likely to only confuse the recipient. Presumably, the listener wants to know the specific kind of support requested–financial, etc.–and what quantity. _So ask that_. Just saying “what’s the ask” is a passive-aggressive douche move that makes the recipient vaguely uncomfortable and uncertain of what the person is looking for. Maybe that’s the goal, but if so it just reinforces all the stereotypes of bad managers. It’s not likely at all. It’s a standard piece of business jargon that is widely accepted and has a clear definition. > [@j666](#): > > It probably does, and it’s probably money. If it’s “probably” anything, then it’s not an ask. Asks are unambiguous and eliminate inference. That’s what separates an ask from a standard request or suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/216 "2014-03-20T04:21:36Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > So? All I am saying is that making ‘ask’ a noun in unnecessary. Look, language evolves organically which means that words are never an exact aesthetic fit for the concept they represent. My own personal bugaboo is using _sous vide_ for sub-boiling temperature controlled bath cooking which derives from the French “under vacuum” **despite vacuum sealing being a completely orthogonal concept**. Do I think sous vide is a shitty name for the technique? Yes. Do I think sous vide is conceptually distinct enough from poaching, simmering, braising, deep frying and retort canning to deserve it’s own word? Also yes. Look, I agree with you that ask is a shitty, awkward word and not my first choice to represent this concept. At the same time, I’m mature enough to not go constantly tilting at windmills and just accept that it’s become the accepted nomenclature that facilitates smooth communication. If you feel like incite is a better word than incentivize to represent the same concept, that’s your prerogative but your chances of converting all of the world to your view is slim. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/217 "2014-03-20T04:35:25Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > It’s not likely at all. It’s a standard piece of business jargon that is widely accepted and has a clear definition. It’s not _knowing_ the definition that’s the problem. It’s that the definition is overly broad and transmits very little information. Using it is lazy, dismissive, inexpressive, and insulting. Even if _you_ think the word is perfectly fine, you can see from this thread that a high proportion of people consider the word unbelievably stupid. If you use it, then, their opinion of you is instantly lowered and they are that much less likely to give you what you need. On the other hand, you can earn greater respect by using language that is both more expressive and standard English. Which serves your interests more? ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/218 "2014-03-20T04:47:57Z")
“It is what it is.” (ongoing refrain - yes, things are what they are…in fact!) - and - “I pre-dated my signature to make it more accurate.” pretty funny when taken together. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/219 "2014-03-20T13:35:09Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s not _knowing_ the definition that’s the problem. It’s that the definition is overly broad and transmits very little information. Using it is lazy, dismissive, inexpressive, and insulting. > > Even if _you_ think the word is perfectly fine, you can see from this thread that a high proportion of people consider the word unbelievably stupid. If you use it, then, their opinion of you is instantly lowered and they are that much less likely to give you what you need. On the other hand, you can earn greater respect by using language that is both more expressive and standard English. Which serves your interests more? The whole point of language is to communicate, and our existing English vocabulary (which is larger than that of most European languages) is adequate for almost any conceivable situation. Of course there are lexical gaps, but these are usually not such that call for making ‘ask’ into a noun. Paraphrase usually works. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589/220 "2014-03-20T13:47:46Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Look, language evolves organically which means that words are never an exact aesthetic fit for the concept they represent. My own personal bugaboo is using _sous vide_ for sub-boiling temperature controlled bath cooking which derives from the French “under vacuum” **despite vacuum sealing being a completely orthogonal concept**. Do I think sous vide is a shitty name for the technique? Yes. Do I think sous vide is conceptually distinct enough from poaching, simmering, braising, deep frying and retort canning to deserve it’s own word? Also yes. > > Look, I agree with you that ask is a shitty, awkward word and not my first choice to represent this concept. At the same time, I’m mature enough to not go constantly tilting at windmills and just accept that it’s become the accepted nomenclature that facilitates smooth communication. > > If you feel like incite is a better word than incentivize to represent the same concept, that’s your prerogative but your chances of converting all of the world to your view is slim. There are lots of us who already know what the word ‘incite’ means. Some of us are professional authors or translators who work with language everyday. Business leaders are subject to various pressures, and clear communication is vital to most enterprises. So is respect for leadership. Respect for the leadership is lost when leadership speaks or writes like morons. what if someone thought it was clever to capitalize the last letter in a sentence instead of the firsT. see how awesomely original that iS? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-case-of-manager-speak-youve-heard/683589.md?page=12)