# Worst commerical firearms of the last 50 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280 "2017-04-12T00:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/1 "2017-04-12T00:57:21Z")
One thing I always enjoy reading about is terrible products but gun-focused websites tend to not really openly talk about terrible commerical guns barring some very obvious targets (like Hi-Point Firearms products). In fact if you search for articles called “Worst Guns of All Time” you’ll find dozens of different articles on websites but they all seem copy and pasted from each other (Lot of Chauchats, Gyrojets, and Nock guns and similar in those lists) Now, I’m curious what are some non-military commercially mass-produced terrible small arms made in the last 50 years that aren’t terrible solely due to build quality (thus excluding all those crappy Saturday Night Specials which werent meant for long-term use). Guns that either had design defects or were just unpractical designs that somehow made it to market. Range toys like AR pistols or very specific marksman handguns I’d also exclude since being impractical was part of their design since they’re made just to shoot targets (unless of course they also failed at their sole job as well) Perfect example of a bad gun I don’t se people talk often about is the Colt All-American 2000, Colts attempt at making a polymer semi-auto handgun to compete with Glock and win back market share from police departments, and which they staked the companies future on. Then it comes out and it’s got terrible accuracy, reliability problems (since it was meant to be a cops sidearm this was kind of a big deal) and most of all a completely terrible trigger that was too stiff, too long, and broke at 12 pounds of weight which killed off target shooting interest. The weapon was so terrible it was pulled from store shelves soon afterward. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/2 "2017-04-12T01:04:37Z")
I’ll grab the low hanging fruit. [Judge approves landmark Remington rifle settlement](http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/14/judge-approves-landmark-remington-rifle-settlement.html) > [@](#): > > …a federal judge has given final approval to a landmark class action settlement involving some 7.5 million allegedly defective Remington guns. > > The ruling allows the owners of some of Remington’s most popular firearms — including the iconic Model 700 rifle — to have their triggers replaced free of charge. 7.5 million defective triggers that could allow a rifle to misfire is a textbook design defect. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/3 "2017-04-12T01:38:08Z")
Speaking of Big Green - Remington - The Model 522 “Viper.” I have nothing against polymer, but this thing was simply cruddy. Even the magazines fall apart. Remington 597. NOT a worthy successor to the 522 - unless you like crappy magazines. Ruger can do a rotary magazine - why can’t Remington? Colt M16 semi-auto “Reissue” - released at the 2017 SHOT Show. US$2500 for a rifle identical to other “M16” clones selling for $1000 less. Nothing wrong with the rifle _per se_, but the price? _Fuggedaboutit._ [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vZ16kb9-ps4/hqdefault.jpg "SHOT 2017: Why is Colt's M16A1 Reissue $2500?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ16kb9-ps4) While we’re picking on Remington: The nostalgia-laden R-51. Failed, recalled, failed again. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aTzS4sQfn4U/maxresdefault.jpg "Remington R51 Review") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTzS4sQfn4U) Dardic 1500. UGLY! Also useless, and weird. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/YKE2YwtcTXE/maxresdefault.jpg "Review: the Dardick Model 1500 magazine-fed revolver") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKE2YwtcTXE) Calico - Anything under that name. Those helical magazines… **shudder**. The Calico - The gun you load all week and shoot on Sunday. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPZICnaFJgI) USA Zip .22 - Holy God, where do I start…? I know - you have to put your finger _in front of the muzzle_ to charge the pistol! :eek: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/hFepGqERdY0/maxresdefault.jpg "First Shots: USFA Zip Gun 22 LR Pistol. Worlds Worst Gun?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFepGqERdY0) Jennings/Raven/Phoenix/Any of the “Circle of Fire” clones. Wow. Getting one ready to fire is like solving a Chinese puzzle box. And they’re made of junk metal. I’ve owned one for years - and have NEVER managed to be able to get it to firing condition whilst at the range. Street Sweeper. So bad, it was restricted specifically by name. OK, the _name_ is what got it restricted, but it DESERVED that fate. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Uoy14h6K5TY/maxresdefault.jpg "Streetsweeper Shotgun") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uoy14h6K5TY) While we’re at it… The Ladies Home Companion. That _name_… :eek: Un-fucking-believable. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/TygqLGNnXJE/maxresdefault.jpg "Cobray Lady's Home Companion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TygqLGNnXJE) Cobray “Terminator” :eek: Another bad name. Clunky, stupid, useless - and utterly pointless. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/WnpOis10NyQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Cobray Terminator 12ga Shotgun") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnpOis10NyQ) In fact, pretty much _anything_ with the name “Cobray” on it. I actually own several of their derringers, and they are stone-axe crude. Robust, unbreakable, HEAVY, and crude, crude, crude. but sometines fun. 😛 I’ll leave some space for other folks now… 😃 Edit: Side note: Hi-Points suck, but they _do_ run, are remakably hard to kill. Kinda like the brick they resemble. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/4 "2017-04-12T01:43:55Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > USA Zip .22 - Holy God, where do I start…? I know - you have to put your finger _in front of the muzzle_ to charge the pistol! :eek: > [https://youtu.be/hFepGqERdY0](https://youtu.be/hFepGqERdY0) Holy Stupidity Batman! What idiot invented that? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/5 "2017-04-12T01:45:19Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Holy Stupidity Batman! > What idiot invented that? I’d love to know - we could put him on display as a warning to others. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/6 "2017-04-12T02:13:17Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Perfect example of a bad gun I don’t se people talk often about is the Colt All-American 2000, Colts attempt at making a polymer semi-auto handgun to compete with Glock and win back market share from police departments, and which they staked the companies future on. Then it comes out and it’s got terrible accuracy, reliability problems (since it was meant to be a cops sidearm this was kind of a big deal) and most of all a completely terrible trigger that was too stiff, too long, and broke at 12 pounds of weight which killed off target shooting interest. The weapon was so terrible it was pulled from store shelves soon afterward. Although I do like shooting I’m not a gun nut with an encyclopedic knowledge of various guns. I can from experience say that the Smith & Wesson Sigma that was their Glock copy was a piece of shit. We had the .40 cal at work and I’ve never had a weapon with so many reliability problems just in normal range operations. Light hits, stove pipes, double feeds, broken springs. After a few years we went to Glocks. Smith had to change the design after a patent infringement lawsuit from Glock. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/7 "2017-04-12T02:19:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Although I do like shooting I’m not a gun nut with an encyclopedic knowledge of various guns. I can from experience say that the Smith & Wesson Sigma that was their Glock copy was a piece of shit. No doubt about it, the Sigma was a bad gun. The SDxVE (SD9VE, SD40VE) is better, by long chalk. Still has a _crappy_ trigger though. On the plus side, it’s easy to fix, and not terribly costly ~ $40 (when I did it) will get you a decent trigger pull (~6#), and if you do a bit of polishing (NOT stock removal!) you can get the grit out of the trigger. I woudn’t suggeest you replace the actual trigger yourself, though - it requires a bit of fitting, and should be done by a gunsmith. Yes, I own one. Why do yo ask? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/8 "2017-04-12T02:22:13Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > USA Zip .22 - Holy God, where do I start…? I know - you have to put your finger _in front of the muzzle_ to charge the pistol! :eek: > [https://youtu.be/hFepGqERdY0](https://youtu.be/hFepGqERdY0) [A different view](http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/jeremy-s/gun-review-usfa-zip-22lr/) at [truthaboutguns.com](http://truthaboutguns.com) If you’re careful, you don’t actually put your fingers in front of the muzzle. Really, really, _really_ careful. The kind of careful you don’t have time for in an actual fight. Or when you’re drunk. Or you get distracted for a moment. OK, it’s really fucking stupid. And awkward. And stupid. Another oddity. This can mount under the [barrel of an AR-15](http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/3-courtesy-usfirearms.com_.jpg). _Why?_ ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/9 "2017-04-12T02:25:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [A different view](http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/jeremy-s/gun-review-usfa-zip-22lr/) at [truthaboutguns.com](http://truthaboutguns.com) If you’re careful, you don’t actually put your fingers in front of the muzzle. Really, really, _really_ careful. The kind of careful you don’t have time for in an actual fight. Or when you’re drunk. Or you get distracted for a moment. > > OK, it’s really fucking stupid. And awkward. And stupid. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/10 "2017-04-12T02:32:18Z")
[COP 357 four-shot derringer](https://youtu.be/CKu0RXCB6G4). Heavy, painful, crappy trigger, and one shot less than a comparable weight revolver in the same caliber. Oh, and awkward to reload. But hey! They’re _kewl._ And popular - sorta. OK, they’re expensive and rare. Which isn’t the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/11 "2017-04-12T02:35:05Z")
Just because they’re cheap and ugly, why pick on Hi-Point? I like my Hi-Point! If I was gonna pick on a firearm it would have to be the [Savage .22 cal lever action model 72](https://www.google.com/search?q=model+72+savage+22+for+sale&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi8srGv8J3TAhVK32MKHcR1DlgQ_AUIBygC&biw=1280&bih=609#imgrc=X8hlCBCPNjUdeM:&spf=191) fun to shoot as long as you have a rod to push the spent round out with since the ejector was crap and easily worn down or just broken. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/12 "2017-04-12T03:47:35Z")
[Desert Eagle](https://youtu.be/nb7tWcohYSY). It’s a fine piece of engineering. To exactly no purpose. And, while we’re at it: [The S&W 500 Magnum](https://youtu.be/J-FG9ZKerGM). NO ONE likes to shoot this - not even the big burlies and the long-time enthusiasts. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/13 "2017-04-12T04:15:17Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > [Desert Eagle](https://youtu.be/nb7tWcohYSY). > It’s a fine piece of engineering. To exactly no purpose. I’ll second that one. Others I love to hate are: Raven .25 ACP — even the poor deserved at least something the quality of a Sterling > **[Raven Arms](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_Arms)** > > Raven Arms was a firearms manufacturer established in 1970 by firearms designer George Jennings. The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibiting the importation of inexpensive handguns prompted Jennings to design the MP-25, a .25-caliber semi-automatic pistol, and enter the firearms business. Raven has been referred to as the original "Ring of Fire" company, a term describing companies known for producing inexpensive Saturday night special handguns. > Raven kept manufacturing costs to a minimum by build... The Ithaca lever action single shot .22 > **[Ithaca M49 Saddlegun: Junk or Treasure? - AllOutdoor.com](https://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/08/04/ithaca-m49-saddlegun-junk-treasure/)** > > Introduced at $20 in 1961 and sold until 1979, Ithaca M49 looks like a conventional lever action repeater with 18 inch barrel. A closer look reveals that it’s nothing of the sort, In fact, it’s a single-shot falling block with a... Later Universal Arms M1 Carbines once they went to the dual spring variants. I have one of the early Enforcer pistols and its a dream but I’ve personally seen three of the “newer” ones come apart with US factory loads. [http://maxicon.com/guns/universal\_m1/universal\_m1\_carbine\_production.htm](http://maxicon.com/guns/universal_m1/universal_m1_carbine_production.htm) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/14 "2017-04-12T04:19:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > OK, it’s really fucking stupid. And awkward. And stupid. > > Another oddity. This can mount under the [barrel of an AR-15](http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/3-courtesy-usfirearms.com_.jpg). _Why?_ Because. You got mounting rails, we gonna make stuff to mount on them rails and you’re gonna mount it. Nevermind if it’s any use or makes any sense or people are looking at your weapon and wondering, what does all \*that \*do? ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/15 "2017-04-12T04:43:53Z")
Speaking of lever action single shots, I had one in 12 gauge from Sears. Not only that, it was a lever action, single shot, break action shotgun. The lever just unlocked the action and you tipped the barrel down like an ordinary single shot shotgun. It was very lightweight and a real bear to shoot with field loads, I loaded down for it. But man, was it fast on point! The worst gun I ever tried was a Rexio revolver. I went to dry fire it in single action - cocked the hammer, then squeezed the trigger. I was expecting the typical revolver trigger, no movement of the trigger, just increase the pressure until the sear breaks. Instead, the trigger kept moving back, the hammer pulled back with it, then halfway through the pull the hammer began slowly moving forward, then finally dropped the rest of the way. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![obbn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d6d6ee/32.png) [@obbn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obbn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/16 "2017-04-12T07:56:16Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I’ll second that one. > > Others I love to hate are: > > Raven .25 ACP — even the poor deserved at least something the quality of a Sterling > [Raven Arms - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_Arms) > > The Ithaca lever action single shot .22 > [Ithaca M49 Saddlegun: Junk or Treasure? - AllOutdoor.com](http://www.alloutdoor.com/2015/08/04/ithaca-m49-saddlegun-junk-treasure/) > > Later Universal Arms M1 Carbines once they went to the dual spring variants. I have one of the early Enforcer pistols and its a dream but I’ve personally seen three of the “newer” ones come apart with US factory loads. > [Universal M1 Carbine Production History](http://maxicon.com/guns/universal_m1/universal_m1_carbine_production.htm) I’ll agree that the more desirable Universals are the ones that use GI parts, but the late models have gotten an undeserved rep. I have one that my father bought from Woolworths in the late 1960s. He paid $85 for it. I have it now and I’ve run thousands of rounds through it and the only issue I’ve ever had was a few fail to feeds. The magazine was at fault, not the rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/17 "2017-04-12T19:42:03Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Because. You got mounting rails, we gonna make stuff to mount on them rails and you’re gonna mount it. Nevermind if it’s any use or makes any sense or people are looking at your weapon and wondering, what does all \*that \*do? Just so long as it’s Tacti-_kewl_. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/18 "2017-04-21T13:33:01Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Speaking of Big Green - Remington - The Model 522 “Viper.” I have nothing against polymer, but this thing was simply cruddy. Even the magazines fall apart. Couldn’t agree more. That was my first purchased gun, and if I hadn’t known better, I would have thought guns weren’t fun to shoot. Terrible trigger, impossible to find magazines. I traded it in for a Ruger 10/22, which accompanies me to the range with every trip… even if other guns are coming as the primary focus. I’d add the Smith 916 12ga shotgun. I think I have the only one that actually works properly, but it took a lot of work on the action when it was handed down to me to get it functional. (That was the fault of the PD that owned it prior to me) Smith apparently tried to buy them all back, and I’ve heard it nearly put them out of business. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/19 "2017-04-21T15:21:44Z")
The truly awful[LES Rogak.](http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3000/3049.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280/20 "2017-04-21T16:05:27Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > The truly awful[LES Rogak.](http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/3000/3049.htm) :eek: That operating system! That thing must be a filthy mess to clean. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-commerical-firearms-of-the-last-50-years/784280.md?page=2)