# Worst companies to work for **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079 "2009-12-21T16:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/61 "2009-12-23T21:37:40Z")
Reading this thread makes me glad I am working for a rather small company and directly for the owner, who is a rather decent sort of guy. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/62 "2009-12-23T23:27:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I find it funny that people who work at companies like **Speak to me Maddie!** describes always think we are there to push some “asinine management strategy” on them. Their asinine management strategy clearly isn’t working and yet they are quick to dismiss anything that requires anyone to actually change their job in any way. Heh. An asinine management strategy would have been a huge step up at that company. They didn’t have a management strategy at all. My comment shouldn’t be construed as a slam on management consultants in general. Surely there are some good firms out there promoting good programs. My wife is a professional project manager, and her regular success in uncharted territory proves to me that principled, structured management is possible in almost any situation. My comments were more a criticism of (that particular) company mismanagement. We’d have consultants come in who had literally no idea what we did. Our group worked in finance and customs. Many of these consultants would ask us to do things that were clearly stupid and often illegal. This was stuff that even first month interns would know was wrong. Even after Sarbanes Oxley we’d have consultants come in who were dangerously ignorant of the law. So the first few weeks to months would be spent educating the consultants. That would be ok if we were talking about a long term commitment to a proven program. But invariably, and often inexplicably, the consultants would just disappear, and the program would be abandoned. Then a few months later another group would come in, often asking us to do things the exact opposite of the previous consultants’ plan. I could go on because it is far more complicated than that. We’d have consultants working against each other, consultants hired by managers who knew nothing about them to work in groups the managers knew nothing about. Etc, ad nauseum. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/63 "2009-12-24T00:57:17Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > So, Davina and I went to the labor board, sat down with a very nice lady and recounted everything, I wanted and needed my paycheck so I could actually pay my rent. Took copies of all the salient paperwork we had copies of. I was figuring that they would tell the owners to pony up the 2 paychecks, and I would never mention them on my resume ever again, and everything would be fine. > > The labor board audited them for 7 years, fined them $250,000 and made them track down and find every employee they screwed over on overtime and holiday pay … and the labor board monitored them for 3 years. An old boss of mine had been fired as a youth pastor (like: “get out now, we’ll send your stuff”) after he said he wasn’t going along with unethical things the senior pastor was doing, including pirating software. He had to go to the labor board to get his final pay, and instead it turned into a large prosecution of the church for all his unpaid overtime. He never even knew he had it coming, and I still don’t understand it, as it was a salaried job, but they said all those beach trips and lockins with kids were hours spent working, and he was to be paid overtime. So the jerkitude of the pastor cost the church way, way more than anyone had expected, by about $20K, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/64 "2009-12-24T01:00:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > know-nothing cheerleader managers who care more about how well you follow the “core values” than your actual work. And they really elevate the senior executives to mythical status. And I’ll throw in school administrators who care more about whether the Expected School Learning Results are posted on the wall, or whether the roll was turned in on their schedule rather than if kids are learning and are not resenting coming to school. But the math teacher we have who (many kids have told me) barely teaches, hates reteaching, and gives silent stares to questions seems to be golden because he never challenges the admin and fills out forms well or something. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/65 "2009-12-24T01:11:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > At least, unlike my old firm, they don’t have to wear a dunce cap and a Flavor-Flav clock if they are late to a team meeting in this company. You just blew my mind. People put up with this? What kind of environment is this? In a teaching environment (“we’re all college educated professionals, you bet”), it wouldn’t go over at all. It’s beyond my imagining. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/66 "2010-01-19T03:34:55Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yes. Two classic books in this genre are > [Built to Last: Successful Habits of Visionary Companies](http://www.amazon.com/Built-Last-Successful-Visionary-Essentials/dp/B001W6RRNY/ref=pd_sim_b_1)and [Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap… and Others Don’t](http://www.amazon.com/Good-Great-Companies-Leap-Others/dp/0066620996), both by Jim Collins. > > There is also [The McKinsey Way](http://www.amazon.com/McKinsey-Way-Ethan-Rasiel/dp/0070534489/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261500273&sr=1-1)by Ethan Rasiel, named for the white-shoe management consulting firm McKinsey & Company. > The company I worked for actually handed out Built to Last to all new hires. The book has an entire chapter dedicated to creating a cult-like culture (entitled Creating a Cult-like Culture) and it’s a reoccuring theme throughout the book. > > Basically it talks about creating a set of “core values” and a “mission statement”. Same bullshit every company does, right? Except they go even further. These values are constantly drilled into you during new hire orientation. They are posted in every room. > > Next, you create a mythology around your top people. They had all these stories around the CEOs (before he was forced out by the SEC for stock-options backdating), senior executives, high performing teams that worked 7 days and 7 nights without ever leaving the office and married couples who met in the firm. We aren’t talking just about veneration of the senior management. We are talking about elevating them to an almost mythical status. > > As with all cults, you want your people isolated from the outside. So ironically, to create a “Work / Life Balance” they would host more activities after work so that you had even less time to spend with people outside of the company. We would typically take all our dinners from a restaurant in the lobby of our office building. Many of the guys dated the waitresses who worked there. > > And finally, you aggressively defend that culture. Anyone who was not a good “fit” was typically ejected from the company in short order. There is no complaining about work or joking about how stupid your manager is. It’s very 1984. You can’t just do your job. You have to LOVE doing your job. Because if you don’t love it, you aren’t doing a good job. Thanks, **msmith537**. Just coming out of my holiday coma, and finding threads, and thanking folk. hh ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/67 "2010-01-19T03:40:55Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > 1. Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Same Mifflin of Dunder Mifflin? ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/68 "2010-01-19T03:48:14Z")
I believe pretty much any horror story I hear about working at Wal-Mart. I would live under a bridge before working there again, and I didn’t have it all that bad compared to some stuff I’ve heard. One day? Ha! It’s the grind over time that is soul-killing. (I wonder how much of the chanting they did was just to impress her. One good thing about the store I was at, we almost never did that crap. I find it creepy as hell anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/69 "2010-01-19T04:55:45Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > …and at one point had to sing a company song. Isn’t that a very common practice in Japan? ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/70 "2010-01-19T06:26:22Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Isn’t that a very common practice in Japan? No. Not for most companies I know of these days. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/71 "2010-01-19T06:38:19Z")
United Breaks Guitars (but not Gibson!) ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/72 "2010-01-19T07:40:14Z")
> [@Randy\_Seltzer](#): > > My sister worked for number ten – Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. > > It’s funny, just the other day we were talking about jobs, and I asked her what her worst job ever was. Was it working concessions at the Kansas Speedway, walking up and down the aisles in 110-degree heat selling Gatorade to shirtless NASCAR fans? Was it transferring boxes of x-rays from one warehouse to another, one box at a time, thousands of times? Was it hostessing at Applebees? Was it washing sweaty costumes for the ballet? > > Nope. She said without any hesitation that her worst job, bar none, was her first “real” job out of college: production assistant at HMH (though it was just Houghton Mifflin back then). What did she say about it? ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/73 "2010-01-19T09:22:45Z")
It’s a toss-up between Pacific Bell and Bank of America. I really can’t do either justice, so a quick note: Scott Adams was once employed by Pac Bell. Yes, Dilbert is based on that shop. And… not only did virtually everyone know his cubicle number, they actually took pride in being that screwed up. Imagine this: you are a manager. It says so on your business card. You have no staff, will never have a single Arthur Anderson kid to call your own. You have a “project”, and your importance is tied to how long and expensive your project is. The result is exactly what you’d expect - meetings upon meetings - I was a contractor - my jpb was to attend meetings so the staff might get something done. Why not just ignore meetings? They actually take attendance. My favorite meeting was 35 people in a room for over an hour. Being read a status report. BofA was actually rational by comparison - my favoite job was to go through the code and tell the USERS what the numbers on these reports were. Right - these reports had been produced for 10+ years, and nobody knew what they were looking at. Yes, I did ask the obvious - it turns out that if those silly reports were as much as an hour late, the IT manager’s phone would ring. For those ancient enough - one project was to use IMS/DB aka DL/I (which is NOT pronounced dee el eye!). I suggested that we might want to put together some DLT0 jobs for the shiney new database. The manager actually asked the poor system pgmr assigned if he thought they might have some use for them (he mentioned I had suggested this, but he didn’t know if I could be trusted) the poor fellow and I just looked at each other, then he said "yes, you might find it useful…). DLT0 is the only utility that can load such a database. Yes, tthat just MIGHT be handy doofus…/ ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/74 "2010-01-19T16:22:33Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > 46 posts in and not a single mention of Wal-Mart? I thought they were infamous for all the various creative ways that they screw over their employees… I think it’s a case of managing expectations. For lower-level employees, it’s not like they’re expecting Aeron chairs and foosball tables and company-sponsored masssages and mentoring chats with the CEO. They’re expecting to be treated like crap for an hourly wage, and that’s what they get. And for senior management, they’re expecting to work on interesting cutting-edge projects for a pretty good salary, but have to put up with a HQ in the middle of nowhere, less than zero corporate bling, and an employer that’s hated in a few small circles. And by God, that’s what they get. Who’s going to be dissatisfied? ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/75 "2010-01-19T17:15:29Z")
> [@Auntbeast](#): > > I’ve had some doozy jobs. However, where I am currently tops the list of the Worst. It is a restaurant. > > 1. “Vegetarian” is a guide, not a rule. > > 2. The bus boys do not get all the money that we tip out. > > 3. Things like “Fresh Mountain Trout” is actually frozen trout from Chile. When you get a new job, you should write to the local newspaper about these three items (at least). And copy the local health board. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/76 "2010-01-19T19:25:45Z")
A friend of mine interned for Bank of New York when he was in business school. He used to joke “the last time these people received any guidance from management it was ‘Everyone stop what you are doing until I get back from my meeting with this Burr fellow!’.” ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/78 "2010-02-11T00:40:02Z")
Wow, HP! During the 80’s while in college, a poll was taken locally on who was on the top 10 list and bottom 10 list as a choice of employment. IBM (surprise!) was Number 1 on _both_ lists, but HP was always Number 2 in the former–never in the latter. I marked the day that the test equipment division was renamed “Agilent,” as the day music died at HP. I bet David is waiting in the afterlife with a pitchfork… ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/79 "2010-02-11T19:12:41Z")
Target has a new, subtle strategy that is good for investors, and sucks for employees. At the local store, you get a great insurance package and vacation and benefits if you are full time. It was a great job a few years ago. OK, so economy has tanked, plus they have overbuilt stores in this area. Their trick? Employee hours are being cut dramatically - from 5 - 6 days a week to 1 or 2! Yet, they continue to hire NEW employees, to ensure nobody is getting enough hours to remain full time. By April of this year, it is doubtful anyone will have enough hours to be full time, so essentially they have cut all insurance and benefits, as now everyone will only be part time. In addition, by allowing an employee to work 1 day per week until they quit (lots of single mothers who can’t afford to work there anymore) - and thus, by quitting instead of getting fired, they are not eligible for unemployment. Ergo - Target doesn’t have to make any extra payments towards unemployment benefits either, as they never fire anybody. Employees who have worked there for years are getting screwed, and forced to quit and look for other work - but on paper, Target looks golden - they never fire anyone and “look, we have great benefits for full-time employees!” of which there are none anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079/80 "2010-02-12T06:00:04Z")
UPS almost killed me. I worked their one Christmas rush and it was awful. No talking allowed, just sort and load packages and memorize all the routes. A supervisor standing over you at all times. If you get behind you get reprimanded on the spot. Pure slave labor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-companies-to-work-for/522079.md?page=3)