# Worst Military Leader elimination game (setup thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933 "2010-11-08T17:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/1 "2010-11-08T17:52:40Z")
By popular demand… Who was the worst military leader of all time? You may nominate up to five terrible, no-good, awful leaders, be they generals, admirals or military officers of any rank, as well as monarchs, warlords or chieftains actually commanding on the battlefield, _describing each in no more than five words_. All descriptions are subject to editing for brevity, accuracy and clarity. Define “worst” as you see fit. Military leaders on the land, at sea or in the air are eligible for nomination. Even just a single noteworthy flop is sufficient for nomination, if you wish. To avoid contemporary political disputes, your nominees must have been either retired or dead before 2000. Nominations will close at noon EST a week from today, Mon. Nov. 15. After the deadline, I’ll arrange the nominees alphabetically, and we’ll vote them out much as we did in the U.S. President, greatest American, greatest national leader, and greatest military leader elimination games. My nominees: Horatio Gates: Fled headlong from Camden, S.C. James Ledlie: Drunk during Battle of Crater Braxton Bragg: Bungling, irritating Confederate general Heinrich Himmler: Nazi botched every field command Christian de Castries: Lost at Dien Bien Phu ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/2 "2010-11-08T17:57:44Z")
[James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brudenell,_7th_Earl_of_Cardigan): led the Charge of the Light Brigade. I may have others later. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/3 "2010-11-08T17:59:03Z")
Adolf Hitler, atrocious supreme commander Arthur Percival, surrendered Singapore to Japan Publius Quinctilius Varus, army totally annihilated in Germany ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/4 "2010-11-08T18:08:38Z")
Hitler didn’t exercise battlefield command during WW2. Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/5 "2010-11-08T18:13:39Z")
Lieutenant-Colonel Thom Karremans: Toasted Mladić, allowed Srebenica massacre. (Note: I believe, but am not certain, that he retired prior to 2000. I’m not nominating Mladić simply because I don’t consider him a military leader so much as a particularly well-equipped and psychotic gangster. The profession of arms is an honorable one; Mladić has nothing to do with it.) 2nd Lt. William Calley: Ordered, led My Lai Massacre. Captain Anderson Wirz: Commandant, Andersonville Prison. War criminal. I might have another couple nominations later - is there a deadline for the setup thread? ETA: Forgot about the requirement for a battlefield command. Since **Wirz** doesn’t qualify, and you specified that warlords are eligible, I’ll swap Wirz for: \*\*Ratko Mladić \*\*: Ordered Srebenica massacre, convicted scum. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/6 "2010-11-08T18:18:32Z")
General William Tecumseh Sherman May-He-Rot-in-Hell: Arsonist, War Criminal. George Armstrong Custer: Idiot. Ulysses S. Grant: Butcher Benjamin Franklin Butler: Beast. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/7 "2010-11-08T18:23:33Z")
William Westmoreland: Brutal, unimaginative technocrat Paul D. Harkins: Ignorant and overoptimistic, allowed Vietnam to escalate Maximilian von Prittwitz: Peed his pants in Prussia (alliteration quadruple bonus!) Xerxes I of Persia: Epic blunders in Greece Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna: Napoleon of the West? Ha! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/8 "2010-11-08T18:51:21Z")
**Ambrose E. Burnside** : defeat from jaws of victory ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/9 "2010-11-08T18:56:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > [James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brudenell,_7th_Earl_of_Cardigan): led the Charge of the Light Brigade. > > I may have others later. Forgot about the five-word thing; “Charge of the Light Brigade” will have to do. (Though that’s just the rancid cherry on top of the toxic sewage sundae that was his military career). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/10 "2010-11-08T19:00:43Z")
Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives ( **Crassus** ): Army pincushioned by Parthians ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/11 "2010-11-08T19:04:19Z")
**Manuel Fernandez Silvestre** - “Run! The Bogeyman is coming!” **Charles le Temeraire** - Rash, rather than “Bold” **Charles Alexander of Lorraine** - A sustained career of incompetence **Frederik William Stopford** - Blunderer at Suvla Bay ( Gallipoli ) I’m still cogitating on the fifth. Seems like I should have some classical figure, maybe Crassus. But Elphinstone is tempting. ETA: Okay, apparently Malthus has Crassus ;). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/12 "2010-11-08T19:08:36Z")
Emperor Romanus IV of Byzantium: Lost the [Battle of Manzikert](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert) And because no one else has taken him yet: [George B McClellan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan) - Led Union unsuccessfully ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/13 "2010-11-08T19:11:43Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Forgot about the five-word thing; “Charge of the Light Brigade” will have to do. (Though that’s just the rancid cherry on top of the toxic sewage sundae that was his military career). But seriously, **Tom** , how do you feel about the man? Don’t hold back, it isn’t healthy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/14 "2010-11-08T19:24:10Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > I’m still cogitating on the fifth. Seems like I should have some classical figure, maybe Crassus. But Elphinstone is tempting. Well, _someone_ should include good old Elphey Bey. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/15 "2010-11-08T19:43:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Well, _someone_ should include good old Elphey Bey. 😃 Eh, okay - I was trying to come up with another really solid medieval candidate ( Edward II was kinda woeful ), but he probably does deserve a mention somewhere. **William George Keith Elphinstone** - Lost an army in Afghanistan ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/16 "2010-11-08T20:17:34Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Lieutenant-Colonel Thom Karremans: Toasted Mladić, allowed Srebenica massacre. > . ☹ oh I wanted too nominate Mr “don’t shoot the piano player” Karremans But seeing he’s taken, how about some mad leaders? Douglas Haig: Lions led by donkeys Geoffrey Spicer-Simson :went mad in dark Afrika Francisco Solano López: almost unmade Paraguay Curtis LeMay: tried to preemptively use nukes ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/17 "2010-11-08T21:22:11Z")
Fun times. Here are my suggestions: **Oreste Baratieri** - Routed by Ethiopians at [Adowa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adwa). **Lord Chelmsford** - Zulu dawn at [Isandlwana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Isandlwana) **Vice-Admiral Sir George Tryon** - Sunk his [flagship](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victoria_(1887)) on maneouvres. **Francisco Solano Lopez** - Led Paraguay against [allcomers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Triple_Alliance). Can’t think of a fifth just yet. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/18 "2010-11-08T21:32:21Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > General William Tecumseh Sherman May-He-Rot-in-Hell: Arsonist, War Criminal.. I assume you’re from Georgia? :rolleyes: As they say,“War is hell.” He was in enemy territory, while scorched earth isn’t the ideal strategy, hard to blame him for doing his job. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/19 "2010-11-08T21:39:33Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I assume you’re from Georgia? :rolleyes: > > As they say,“War is hell.” He was in enemy territory, while scorched earth isn’t the ideal strategy, hard to blame him for doing his job. Save it for the game thread itself, man. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/20 "2010-11-08T21:52:53Z")
**General Maurice Gamelin** - Relied on the Maginot Line. **General William H. Winder** - Loses Upper Canada; Washington, D.C. burns. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933.md?page=2)