# Worst Military Leader elimination game (setup thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933 "2010-11-08T17:52:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/61 "2010-11-10T03:54:53Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Took me a minute to find, but here: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10351718&postcount=6](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10351718&postcount=6) Thank you, what a great read. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/62 "2010-11-10T21:00:49Z")
Keep 'em coming, folks! ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/63 "2010-11-11T04:23:02Z")
Offhand, the only person who comes to mind is: **[William Hull](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hull)**: surrendered peacefully to inferior forces. By the by, who was responsible for Gallipoli? ---
**Author:** ![ramel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb8c5e/32.png) [@ramel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ramel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/64 "2010-11-11T10:02:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Pyrrhus of Epirus - invented new way of losing. Pyrrhus won. ---
**Author:** ![Walther\_Ego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Walther\_Ego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walther_Ego)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/65 "2010-11-11T10:25:14Z")
Carlo di Persano - Loser of Lissa He moved his command from a ship to another, but failed to tell his ships about it, so they were looking for the masts of the wrong ship for instructions all thru the battle. He spent much of the crucial stages in a boat. He also declared victory - only to be thrown out of the navy for cowardice later. The cowardice will not suffice for the title - with only that he could have saved his superior forces by refusing to fight. You need genuine stupidity to loose that spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/66 "2010-11-11T12:04:05Z")
> [@ramel](#): > > Pyrrhus won. Sure, but it was a Pyrrhic victory. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/67 "2010-11-11T13:52:04Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hitler didn’t exercise battlefield command during WW2. Try again. I’d argue he was a de facto battlefield commander due to his micromanagement of some engagements. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/68 "2010-11-11T19:53:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I realize it’s like asking gringos to write Hernán Cortés’ name with an s, but as General Santa Ana spelled the saint’s name with a single n, it might behoove this site to do it as he did it. “Santa Ana”, please. He may have spelled the Saint’s name with a single “n,” but that doesn’t mean he spelled his own name with one. The Spanish version of Wiki has it as [Santa Anna,](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_L%C3%B3pez_de_Santa_Anna) and includes a copy of his signature, showing that that was the way he [signed his own name.](http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archivo:Firma_Antonio_L%C3%B3pez_de_Santa_Anna.png) ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/69 "2010-11-11T22:15:42Z")
[Quote=Sternvogel] Even though I nominated him in the “best military leader” thread, he seems worthy of a mention here: Douglas MacArthur – Dismissed from Korea by Truman Still thinking about my other nominations. [/Quote] I’ve just stumbled across [this page](http://www.theboardgaminglife.com/ArticlePages/hannibal_st3.aspx?GameID=32), and now have two more: Gaius Terentius Varro – Blamed for defeat at Cannae Tiberius Sempronius Longus – Lost to Carthage at Trebia Still looking for my final duo… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/70 "2010-11-12T03:09:06Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I’d argue he was a de facto battlefield commander due to his micromanagement of some engagements. No, I don’t think so. He was certainly a dumb, meddling national leader with delusions of tactical acumen, but he was not a battlefield commander. Disqualified from this game. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/71 "2010-11-12T10:53:15Z")
Oh, Romans… For my last nomination Gaius Claudius Glaber: why fortify against slaves? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/72 "2010-11-12T19:55:41Z")
I’m not sure if a captain of one ship counts but if De Chaumareix’s [command of the Meduse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_frigate_M%C3%A9duse_(1810)) isn’t the perfect storm of incompetence and cowardice I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/73 "2010-11-12T20:04:05Z")
**Napoleon III** - Misadventures to many to name, but primarily added for foolishly declaring war on Prussia, getting clobbered in a double envelopment at Sedan, then watching as Parisians lived on rats. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/74 "2010-11-12T20:13:06Z")
George B. McClellan - A good organizer but willingly dithered in spite of Lincoln’s demands so he could run on an appeasement platform in the next presidential election. I don’t know if that’s treason, but it smells like it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/75 "2010-11-12T20:14:03Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I’m not sure if a captain of one ship counts but if De Chaumareix’s [command of the Meduse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_frigate_M%C3%A9duse_(1810)) isn’t the perfect storm of incompetence and cowardice I don’t know what is. Does this qualify, though? Per Wikipedia, this was just a shipwreck - albeit of a military vessel, but it doesn’t really reflect battlefield incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/76 "2010-11-12T20:27:55Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Does this qualify, though? Per Wikipedia, this was just a shipwreck - albeit of a military vessel, but it doesn’t really reflect battlefield incompetence. The shipwreck was bad enough but it was the stuff after that nearly brought down the government when the report was released in papers. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/77 "2010-11-15T14:39:25Z")
I’ve taken my time reviewing my list of villains. Some of them have already been nominated. I’ll start with two who actually had some successes, but whose search for personal glory or the aggrandizement of their arm of the service led many of their followers or dependents to unnecessary deaths: **Hugh Judson Kilpatrick** – Nicknamed “Kill Cavalry” for reason **Admiral Ernest J. King** – Disastrously opposed convoy, Anglophobic Less controversially, I will finish with three figures from high command who each led a series of disastrous defeats almost uninterrupted by successes, were eventually hated by their men, and were either instrumental in losing their wars or, in one case, their country’s military reputation). Their military sins are many, and were hard to boil down to five words: **John Bell Hood** – Recklessly stupid, lost Atlanta, West **Hermann Goering** – Prancing figurehead misused Luftwaffe **Luigi Cadorna** – Lost 12 consecutively, hated, cruel ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/78 "2010-11-15T14:48:54Z")
Thanks, **Sailboat**. I hoping someone would nominate John Bell Hood. I just didn’t want to nominate too many Civil War generals myself. The _Meduse_’s commander’s incompetence wasn’t on the battlefield, as such, so I’ll exclude it. Did Napoleon III actually exercise battlefield command, or was he just a bungling, meddling national leader a la Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/79 "2010-11-15T15:06:25Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > By the by, who was responsible for Gallipoli? I specifically looked for that. It appears that Sir Ian Hamilton had overall command of the expedition, and could be blamed for the decision to telegraph the assault by bombarding _months_ before landing troops…but someone else had ground command…or nobody. Wikipedia doesn’t even list an overall ground commander, and only names the ground commander of one unit in the initial landings. The follow-up landings at Suvla Bay were under Sir Frederick Stopford, who was responsible for immediately going to ground on the exposed beaches and leaving the heights in Ottoman hands. Given Churchill’s insistence and the top-heavy assortment of admirals and generals along for the whole affair, I think perhaps one of the reasons it played out the way it did may have been because it was sort of a committee effort with too many meddlers. Edit: The difficulty with fingering one man for the Gallipoli disaster deterred me from nominating anyone for it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933/80 "2010-11-15T15:09:08Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Given Churchill’s insistence and the top-heavy assortment of admirals and generals along for the whole affair, I think perhaps one of the reasons it played out the way it did may have been because it was sort of a committee effort with too many meddlers. I found that was the case with a number of disasters; I ended up nominating someone for the Russian defeat in the war with Japan, but he was only in for the final act. The Spanish Armada also was a disaster with many authors, as was the Syracuse expedition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/559933.md?page=5)