I’ve used up my noms - but I agree, we don’t want to get too overbalanced with worthless civil war generals and brits.
But there were so many! For sheer number produced, I’d have no problem at all if a Brit ended up “winning” this thread.
Certainly there were many. But the “accomplishments” of worthy French, Russian and Italian generals should not be overlooked!
Part of the problem here is that non-English-speaking generals who were totally worthless are more likely to simply be less known and uncelebrated. We lack even a single Chinese general - surely there were some memorably bad ones? - and few from the mid-east.
I’m out of noms, but there must also have been some really bad Ottoman generals in the Balkans in the 19th century.
Incidentally, “noms” makes me think of LOLcats - which is appropriate, because I’m pretty sure that some of these generals could have been defeated in detail by a single angry kitten.
I can has victory?
I’d like to nominate Zhao Kuo, there’s a chinese idiom for bad generals thanks to him.
I’m in ur square, routing ur infantry.
Ceiling cat sez that cavalry need artillery support when charging disciplined infantry or fortified positions, if it must be done at all.
I object. That individual’s full name is General William Tecumseh Sherman May-He-Rot-in-Hell. Even little old ladies who do not swear refer to him by his full name in my part of the world.
Is that commonly abbreviated to MHRH in writing? As in, “General William Tecumseh Sherman, MHRH.” Would seem to be less cumbersome. And I know that, in a directly opposite vein, PBUH (Peace Be Upon Him) is often used by Muslims after writing the names of holy figures.
Thanks, Tom Scud, for the summary so far. Sure enough, I LOL’d for the lolcats. Heheh.
To be fair the man knew he sucked, but the country said it needed him so he stepped up. I can’t juggle but if Obama picked me and said there was no one else I’d give it my best shot.
Not as many as you might think. I went into this elsewhere some time ago when discussing logistics, but by far the biggest issue with the Ottoman military was structural and at the bottom, rather than raw incompetence at the top. Discipline and cohesion were the main problems. After ~1700 Ottoman armies began to steadily ( and accelerating after the middle of the 18th century ) loose ground to European armies on the battlefield as strict parade-ground discipline, brutally enforced, took hold. For a variety of cultural/social and financial reasons the Ottomans failed to keep pace and consequently their field armies became less and less effective on the battlefield. Not completely ineffective or incapable of winning at times - but fighting at a severe disadvantage from the start. This issue didn’t even begin to be addressed until the mid-19th century and it was by then hamstrung by the severe financial stresses of the state.
Of course for closely related structural and cultural/social reasons, while lagging on the battlefield, Ottoman troops still remained superb when fighting from prepared defenses. Which accounts for the difficulty in taking the state down and the very numerous grinding campaigns waged against them. The Austrians and Russians found it exceptionally difficult to penetrate Ottoman defensive works under any conditions.
Could you link to your earlier discussion of Ottoman logistics? Sounds interesting.
Took me a minute to find, but here:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10351718&postcount=6
By the way I note skimming that rambling mess, that I never cited my primary source for much of that post, which is Virginia Aksan’s excellent Ottoman Wars 1700-1870: An Empire Besieged ( 2007, Pearson Education Limited ). Highly recommended.
An interesting list, should be a fun game.
My last nomination:
Rodolfo Graziani - Trounced in North Africa.
Thanks, Tamerlane! As always, very informative.
Good choice - I forgot about him (which is, I suppose, about what he deserves as a leader ).
He was a modest incompetent, but his failures were too extreme to ignore. Plus, he had the civil war facial hair.
Can you provide even a single original cite?
Every single cite I can find, including contemporary paintings and illustrations of the man, spell his name Santa Anna. The title page of the man’s own memoirs spell it “Santa Anna”: