# Worst Military Leader (game thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 15, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783 "2010-11-15T21:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/481 "2011-02-13T19:05:13Z")
Another 2 for Percival - the slightly-less-appalling loser of the remaining three. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/482 "2011-02-14T16:00:01Z")
**Luigi Cadorna** - 2. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/483 "2011-02-14T19:15:14Z")
The results from Round 35 of voting: **Francisco Solano López - 10** Luigi Cadorna, Arthur Percival - 4 each The boldfaced leader above is eliminated. That leaves: Luigi Cadorna: Lost twelve consecutively; hated, cruel Arthur Percival: Surrendered Singapore to Japan _Eliminated:_ Ulysses S. Grant William T. Sherman Pyrrhus of Epirus Benedict Arnold James II of England Earl of Cardigan Cloudesley Shovell Douglas MacArthur William Halsey George A. Custer Curtis LeMay Lord Chelmsford George Tryon Geoffrey Spicer-Simson Benjamin F. Butler Xerxes I of Persia Ernest J. King Gaius Terentius Varro John A. McClernand Daniel Sickles Christian de Castries Maximilian von Prittwitz Rodolfo Graziani William Westmoreland Crassus William Calley Carlo di Persano Heinrich Himmler William H. Winder Ratko Mladić Paul D. Harkins Oreste Baratieri Romanus IV of Byzantium Varus Hermann Goering Zinovy Rozhestvensky William Hull George B. McClellan Judson Kilpatrick Thom Karremans Ambrose Burnside Gaius Claudius Glaber Douglas Haig Braxton Bragg Duke of Buckingham Maurice Gamelin Horatio Gates Manuel Fernandez Silvestre Nicias Tiberius Sempronius Longus Frederick William Stopford Napoleon III Philip VI James Ledlie John Bell Hood Charles Alexander of Lorraine Zhao Kuo Abdel Hakim Amer Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna William George Keith Elphinstone Charles le Temeraire Francisco Solano López New Rule Each player gets just one vote. This is it, folks! The next round will end at noon EST on Weds. Feb. 16. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/484 "2011-02-14T19:32:34Z")
Well…when I first saw the thread and before I opened it I thought of Percival. However, I think Luigi deserves the honor. So…Percival - 1 Just to be clear…I mean that Luigi gets top position… ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/485 "2011-02-14T19:47:45Z")
Wow, what a shame. A Hall of Shame, that is. 🙂 As much as I regard Percival’s defeat with a sort of armchair horror, my own crieteria weight the scale very heavily against Cadorna. Consistently repeated defeats, and failure to learn the key military lesson (multiple lines of well-prepared trenches stopped his offensives him, but in the course of two years, he didn’t prepare his own and had his men too exposed forward) were the worst of his sins, but he had plenty more to keep those company. And he seems like a nastier person than Percival, who comes across as a gentlemen in deep over his head, who got stampeded into a near panic and then later made weak excuses. Cadorna’s postwar elevation by Mussolini doesn’t have any military meaning and shouldn’t count for the purposes of this thread, but it adds a little touch of fun to note that the worst of the worst (or the second-worst of the worst, depending on the voting!) was promoted by Mussolini. 🙂 To serve under almost any of these candidates (excepting the “political” nominations of Grant, Sherman, and Arnold [who was a good officer until, well, _you know_]) was to have been endangered, wounded, or killed by the worst sort of mismanagement and bungling. But at the end of their service, Percival’s incompetently-led survivors were marched off to the dubious mercy of WWII Japanese prison camps. Cadorna’s men, probably less likely to have survived, were frankly better off if they’d been _captured by Germans_ than to remain under the merciless heel of Cadorna, awaiting hanging, punitive decimation, and/or a return to the line for another frontal assault against machine guns. Historically, it really speaks ill of a commander to say his men would have been better off “captured by _Germans_.” **Arthur Percival - 1 finger** ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/486 "2011-02-14T19:50:23Z")
Percival - 1 vote. (and Cadorna’s men were more likely to end up in the hands of the Austro - Hungarians). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/487 "2011-02-14T19:50:24Z")
Cadorna 1 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/488 "2011-02-14T20:02:45Z")
For sheer pervesity, you can’t beat Cadorna - Percival was a loser certainly, but he only lost the once. 😉 Cadorna managed to lose again and again - and in an added touch, re-introduced “decimation” for his own men! While Percival at least marched into captivity, Cadorna ends up _promoted_ - by Mussolini. Now there is a recommendation. He righty deserves the crown of loser-dom thrust upon his head (if there is any justice, while rotting in hell). In short - Percival 1. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/489 "2011-02-14T20:27:03Z")
I am entirely convinced. Percival - 1. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/490 "2011-02-14T21:21:27Z")
Computer problems kept me from voting in the last round, but it wouldn’t have made a difference. Now that I’m back, I cast my vote to eliminate Percival and thus anoint Cadorna the “worst of the worst”. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/491 "2011-02-14T22:01:23Z")
I am really curious…what would Luigi say if he found out that 100 years in the future that he was found to be the worst military leader of all time? That would be an interesting reaction 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/492 "2011-02-14T22:49:48Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I am really curious…what would Luigi say if he found out that 100 years in the future that he was found to be the worst military leader of all time? That would be an interesting reaction 😃 I dunno what he’d _say_, but it is clear what he would _do_ … order the decimation of Dopers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/493 "2011-02-15T00:18:52Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > (and Cadorna’s men were more likely to end up in the hands of the Austro - Hungarians). Absolutely, statistically speaking. Eleven of his battles were against Austro-Hungarians and one was against a combined force of Austro-Hungarians abd Germans. However, the phrase “captured by Austro-Hungarians” lacks the historical impact of “captured by Germans.” It doesn’t cause the same lurch in the pit of one’s stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/494 "2011-02-15T00:27:54Z")
Well…lost cause, but I’m casting my vote for **Luigi Cadorna** - 1. Malaya-Singapore just seem like much more inept and unforgivable losses to me. Sure Cadorna was stubbornly idiotic, but given WW I tactics his repeated failure to batter his way through to Slovenia doesn’t seem so surprising, especially considering [Boroevic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetozar_Boroevi%C4%87)’s stellar performance. But either way I’m reasonably happy. They both were Losers with a capital “L” ;). ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/495 "2011-02-15T01:22:08Z")
**Percival -1 vote**. Actually, considering how terrible the leadership was in WW1, it seems perfectly appropriate to me that the worst military leader of all time would come from that conflict. I can definitely get behind Cadorna as the winner, er, loser. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/496 "2011-02-15T01:53:17Z")
By the way, as we head towards the finish line, might I suggest “Most Historically Significant Battles?” Not most decisive - Carrhae was quite decisive, but as noted it was probably not of more than immediate and local significance. I don’t know that there is an obvious and immediate winner in the “most significant” category and there is certainly room for argument for some of the obvious targets. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/497 "2011-02-15T13:45:16Z")
Sounds like a good idea. Would you be willing to run it? And would it just be land battles, or naval too? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/498 "2011-02-15T14:48:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Sounds like a good idea. Would you be willing to run it? And would it just be land battles, or naval too? I think it needs to be 2 different contests. Too much apples and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/499 "2011-02-15T14:53:21Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > By the way, as we head towards the finish line, might I suggest “Most Historically Significant Battles?” Not most decisive - Carrhae was quite decisive, but as noted it was probably not of more than immediate and local significance. I don’t know that there is an obvious and immediate winner in the “most significant” category and there is certainly room for argument for some of the obvious targets. Poor Hannibal…won’t do well. Greatest ass-kicker he would do great. Most decisive, no. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783/500 "2011-02-15T14:53:54Z")
I may actually be on the winning (errr… losing?) side finally. Percival - 1 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-military-leader-game-thread/560783.md?page=26)