# Worst movie cop-outs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926 "2005-09-10T02:11:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/21 "2005-09-11T06:21:59Z")
> [@Gr8Kat](#): > > Well, this isn’t a huge plot point that invalidates the whole movie or anything, but it’s still a cop out, IMHO. > > In War of the Roses, there is a scene where Michael Douglas’s character accidentally runs over and kills Katherine Turner’s cat. Later, Turner feeds Douglas some homemade pate, then implies that it was made from his dog Benny (“good to the last bite”). Douglas reacts with horror, then upsets the entire dinner table, sending it and everything on it crashing to the floor loudly. > > The cop out is when we cut suddenly to the dog laying under a bush in the back yard, who, upon hearing the crash inside the house, jumps up. > > You just know the test audiences must have _freaked_ that poor Benny ended up in the pate, so the filmmakers decided to soften the scene, save the pooch, and keep Turner’s character from looking completely monsterous. I disagree with that pretty strongly, as your imagined version would destroy the entire theme of the film by making one of the two antagonists transparently hateful. Killing an innocent animal just to get back at her husband? Almost anything Douglas’s character did after that short of homicide would be forgiveable. He would clearly be the good guy, and Turner the bad guy, and the entire point of the movie is that there’s no clear way to favor one of these characters over the other. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/22 "2005-09-11T06:30:33Z")
In Spanglish (spoiler), the mother takes the girl out of the private school. And at the end, the daughter in voice over says in a letter to Stanford, “It would be great if you accepted me. And I thank you for all the scholarships” and such. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/23 "2005-09-11T06:54:16Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > I never saw that as deus ex or a cop out. God was clearly a theme throughout the book and it was The Walking Dude’s arrogance and Trashcan Man’s desire to please that set the stage for the defeat. I always felt it was more the Walking Dude’s loss of control and waning powers that caused the fireball to destroy the nuke the ‘hand’ it turned into was just showing God’s presence and that he hadn’t forgotten his sacrifices. King could have just as easily had the fireball go out of control and never turn into the hand and still have everything be destroyed. That’s one way of looking at it, though I respectfully disagree. It’s been a while since I’ve read the book or seen the movie so I’m not currently up 100% on the details, but it always seemed to me that there was no reason for there to be an act of divine intervention (especially considering the lack of any tangible interference during the whole disease thing) other than it was the only way to “get rid” of Flagg. Waning power implies that he was a threat to the being that destroyed him, or otherwise kept that being at bay, and that wasn’t the case. I always felt like King would have kept writing and writing that book and forced himself to end it. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/24 "2005-09-11T07:15:12Z")
**smiling bandit** —By Babylon 5 standards, I think that just qualifies as evolution in action. (Like the Markhabs.) ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/25 "2005-09-11T07:19:25Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > That’s one way of looking at it, though I respectfully disagree. It’s been a while since I’ve read the book or seen the movie so I’m not currently up 100% on the details, but it always seemed to me that there was no reason for there to be an act of divine intervention (especially considering the lack of any tangible interference during the whole disease thing) other than it was the only way to “get rid” of Flagg. I just pointed out he lost control of the fireball and it could have very well tumbled into the warhead on it’s own. That’s a way to finish it with no divine intervention. Plus there was plenty of intervention throughout the book. The dreams the prophecies and all of Flagg’s demonic powers. > [@](#): > > Waning power implies that he was a threat to the being that destroyed him, or otherwise kept that being at bay, and that wasn’t the case. What? He was losing control of his followers. He was unable to see them escape he wasn’t able to convince a single one of the ‘good’ guys to come over to his cause. It’s very likely that whoever his backer was with withdrawing powers from him because he was losing control of the situation and not doing a good job. During the whole book Flagg starts out in control of the situation and pulling all the strings while the good guys are the disorganized atheists/agnostics type who later get stronger and find their faith throughout the book while Flagg’s followers lose their faith. In the end Flagg’s strongest supporter turns his back on him where the good guys are willingly going to the slaughter for their faith. That I feel was the point of the book not the exact details of how the Denver army outfights the Las Vegas army. (damn that would have added another 1000 pages to that book) ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/26 "2005-09-11T07:39:44Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > I just pointed out he lost control of the fireball and it could have very well tumbled into the warhead on it’s own. That’s a way to finish it with no divine intervention. Honestly, I don’t remember a fireball or his losing control of it. I’ve been looking for a new book since finishing my last, maybe this is just the excuse I need to read this one again. I’ll concede the point, though I will maintain that it was a hamhanded way of going about things, not plotwise perhaps, but writer-wise. As you say: > [@](#): > > Plus there was plenty of intervention throughout the book. The dreams the prophecies and all of Flagg’s demonic powers. These were all far more subtle things meant to guide the players, and then to end it the way it did. It just seemed out of place. It also seems to go against the character of a passive god who’s predetermined everyone’s destiny and up until that point maintained a pretty uninvolved, neutral stance. I wouldn’t even call the dreams or Flagg’s powers intervention per se. > [@](#): > > What? He was losing control of his followers. He was unable to see them escape he wasn’t able to convince a single one of the ‘good’ guys to come over to his cause. It’s very likely that whoever his backer was with withdrawing powers from him because he was losing control of the situation and not doing a good job. During the whole book Flagg starts out in control of the situation and pulling all the strings while the good guys are the disorganized atheists/agnostics type who later get stronger and find their faith throughout the book while Flagg’s followers lose their faith. In the end Flagg’s strongest supporter turns his back on him where the good guys are willingly going to the slaughter for their faith. That I feel was the point of the book not the exact details of how the Denver army outfights the Las Vegas army. (damn that would have added another 1000 pages to that book) It’s been postulated that Flagg himself is the devil, though I think we agree that he was more likely an agent (of the devil, or perhaps some other, unnamed entity of evil and corruption). In either case, none of those forces could go against god’s will, so it’s not to say that just because Flagg seemed to be in control he was actually thwarting anything or posing a threat. All I was saying is that he was never a threat, he was just another player with an over-developed sense of worth and his waning power wasn’t what prompted his destruction as though he were somehow protected by it. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/27 "2005-09-11T07:58:40Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > Honestly, I don’t remember a fireball or his losing control of it. I’ve been looking for a new book since finishing my last, maybe this is just the excuse I need to read this one again. He uses a fireball to destroy his former right hand man (whose name I can’t remember right now) anyway if I remember correctly it zips around a bit clearly out of control goes to the nuke and only then does it turn into a burning hand while the sacrifices say stuff like “Look do you see it?” confirming to them that what they did was the thing that saved everyone and was the right choice. > [@](#): > > I’ll concede the point, though I will maintain that it was a hamhanded way of going about things, not plotwise perhaps, but writer-wise. As you say: I think we can agree about the ham-handed…ness…of the scene. I just don’t feel it’s a cop-out. > [@](#): > > These were all far more subtle things meant to guide the players, and then to end it the way it did. It just seemed out of place. It also seems to go against the character of a passive god who’s predetermined everyone’s destiny and up until that point maintained a pretty uninvolved, neutral stance. Seems a little contradictory to say god predetermined everyone’s fate but remained neutral and passive? If he was choosing everyone’s fate and making people make pilgrimages and punishing his followers (Mother Abigail’s losing her powers and forcing her into the woods for penance) That’d be like saying I was playing the Sims made every choice for them set them on fire if they didn’t follow my commands but remained passive toward them. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t even call the dreams or Flagg’s powers intervention per se. Well his magic came from somewhere and since in that story it seemed like powers flowed from one of two sources (not just a natural power anyone could use) something is intervening and giving them a boost. > [@](#): > > It’s been postulated that Flagg himself is the devil, though I think we agree that he was more likely an agent (of the devil, or perhaps some other, unnamed entity of evil and corruption). In either case, none of those forces could go against god’s will, so it’s not to say that just because Flagg seemed to be in control he was actually thwarting anything or posing a threat. All I was saying is that he was never a threat, he was just another player with an over-developed sense of worth and his waning power wasn’t what prompted his destruction as though he were somehow protected by it. Why do we know they can’t go against god’s will? But going with that premise god was allowing men to choose between good and evil. In the end all the key players were either on God’s side or turning their backs on Flagg so he’d served his purpose time to clean house accept the sacrifices of your followers and destroy Sodom all over again. The god in **The Stand** is a very old testament god. Wrathful intolerant and takes people to task. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/28 "2005-09-11T08:24:49Z")
> [@Darkhold](#): > > I think we can agree about the ham-handed…ness…of the scene. I just don’t feel it’s a cop-out. Fair enough. I felt it was. I’ll reread it and see what I think this time around. It may have something to do with feeling King copped out in a similar fashion in _The Tommyknockers_. Regardless, whether or not my example was a good one of deus ex machina, I maintain that that technique is a cop-out. > [@](#): > > Seems a little contradictory to say god predetermined everyone’s fate but remained neutral and passive? If he was choosing everyone’s fate and making people make pilgrimages and punishing his followers (Mother Abigail’s losing her powers and forcing her into the woods for penance) That’d be like saying I was playing the Sims made every choice for them set them on fire if they didn’t follow my commands but remained passive toward them. I agree, sort of. That is heading not only into a complete derailment of the thread by turning it into a pick-apart-The-Stand thread, but it would also be delving into a theological discussion I’d much rather avoid. > [@](#): > > Well his magic came from somewhere and since in that story it seemed like powers flowed from one of two sources (not just a natural power anyone could use) something is intervening and giving them a boost. Yes, but those were more like minor miracles than active intervention. Surely it wasn’t as blatant or obvious as a physical hand coming from the sky to smite the bad guys. > [@](#): > > Why do we know they can’t go against god’s will? That would contradict the concept of a supreme god’s omnipotence. > [@](#): > > But going with that premise god was allowing men to choose between good and evil. In the end all the key players were either on God’s side or turning their backs on Flagg so he’d served his purpose time to clean house accept the sacrifices of your followers and destroy Sodom all over again. The god in **The Stand** is a very old testament god. Wrathful intolerant and takes people to task. No argument here. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/29 "2005-09-11T11:40:36Z")
If we’re going to mention Stephen King in the cop-out vein, I really thought the ending to IT was a horrendous cop-out. But it seems to me this is a King thing - I would be totally captivated by one of his books until the resolution came and think to myself… Wha? Did he get bored and say, Oh screw it, Let’s just have IT be a big spider and be done with it. ? I started thinking I should just read King books up to the last few chapters, and then come up with my own ending. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/30 "2005-09-11T12:27:24Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > About the Babylon 5 episode: > > That had to be the stupidest custom ever. Are they of the opinion that anyone who gets a splinter, or gets a cut, is now a zombie? Seriously, folks, that’s one f’ed up religion, and this comes from a staunch Christian. It seems a logical bit of lunacy extension from the idiots like JW’s who refuse transfusions on religious grounds. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/31 "2005-09-11T12:39:28Z")
_Extremities_ starring Farrah Fawcett as a woman who repels an attempted rape in her own home. In the process she manages to “capture” the rapist. She is going to call the police but he points out that due to the circumstances he will get off. So now she thinks about killing him and burying his body in the back yard. Her housemates come home and the moral dilemma continues until: He is revealed as a SERIAL rapist and therefore can be convicted for other rapes so now she can call the cops ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/32 "2005-09-11T14:38:46Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > The worst cop-out is deus ex machina. > > It’s like the writers write themselves into a corner and have no other means to extricate the intrepid heros but for the Hand of God[sup]TM[/sup]; used quite literally in: > > Stephen King’s “The Stand” I agree 100%. That cop-out ruined the book for me totally. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/33 "2005-09-11T15:07:58Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Frex, in 1936, William Wyler made a movie called “These Three” based on Lillian Hellman’s hit Broadway play “The Children’s Hour,” about rumors of a lesbian relationship between two teachers. How did they deal with that lesbian stuff in 1936 under the Hayes Code of censorship? They made it an illicit heterosexual relationship. Same thing happened in 1951 when the film was remade (and bowdlerized) once more. That’s how they dealt with lesbian themes in those days … just made the characters straight adulterers. Same thing really … I guess. You’re correct that “These Three” made the “dirty little secret” one of heterosexual lust but the remake under the correct title (made in 1961, not 1951) restored the original plot. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/34 "2005-09-11T15:17:12Z")
There is a film called **Lucky Lady** starring Burt Reynolds, Liza Manelli and Gene Hackman (in my opinion their peaks) that had wonderful potential. It was a wonderful movie for about 3/4 of the film. It deals with a group of losers smuggling booze from Mexico during the '20s. It has a wonderful “down” ending in which the loveable losers are defeated by the bad guys and… but I won’t go any further. Anyway, apparently the studio didn’t like this, because after the down ending everybody gets better and pulls together and defeats the bad guys and lives happily ever after. If you ever see the film watch what it could have been instead of what it became. To the mods: Yes, I know I didn’t use a spoiler box, but I sort of see talking about the end of this film is a public service not a spoiler. TV ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/35 "2005-09-11T15:18:37Z")
should read “(…at their peaks)” ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/36 "2005-09-11T17:26:42Z")
**The Bad Seed** Where Rhoda is struck by lightning at the end instead of surviving and having her mother die. Not to mention the corny ending where the cast bow like at the end of a play and it shows the mother spanking Rhoda. ---
**Author:** ![sleeepy2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@sleeepy2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeepy2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/37 "2005-09-11T17:40:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about [_The Final Countdown_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/)? The U.S.S. _Nimitz_, fully loaded for bear, gets sucked back in time to just before the Pearl Harbor attack. Lots of agonizing and discussing about whether or not they should interfere with history for about 9/10 of the movie, then: Just as they decide to save the taxpayers millions of 1941 dollars and untold thousands of 1941 lives by stopping the attack, the freaking time warp opens back up and sucks them back to their own time! I watched this whole stupid movie waiting for some F-14/ Japanese Zero combat and ass-whupping. The ending was a real “WTF?!” moment for me! ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/38 "2005-09-11T19:31:07Z")
> [@](#): > > by **Silentgoldfish** > It seems a logical bit of lunacy extension from the idiots like JW’s who refuse transfusions on religious grounds. No, I’m afraid this goes a wee bit further. Most people don’t need transfusion - certainly not for ordinary life. But everyone gets cut, some people quite badly, simply from the hazards of living. Did these aliens never have any wars? Did all their soldiers kill themselves after receiving any kind of wound? They never go into these questions, and leave us hanging a bit. Don’t get me wrong; it was a good episode and a neat idea. I just wish they’d gone a lot more in-depth on it. It winds up seeming like a very suicidal religion. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/39 "2005-09-11T19:59:32Z")
How about [The Scout](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111094/) ? Throughout the movie we see foreshadowing of something going on. The Steve Nebraska character is obviously troubled. We see him give some very strange answers on a test that looked similiar to the Thematic Apperception Test. There’s a scene in the movie when Nebraska is watching _King Kong_ on television, and there are parallels between Nebraska and Kong too close to ignore. Then at the end of the movie Nebraska freaks and climbs up onto the roof at Yankee Stadium, followed by the scout who recruited him. Then, when I’m thinking here it comes, Fraser and Brooks are coming off the roof onto home plate Like Kong came off the Empire State Building, Nebraska decides he will pitch after all, a helicopter comes and lowers him to the field like a mechanical _deus ex machina_, and he pitches to victory. All the clues pointed the other way. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926/40 "2005-09-11T20:08:22Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > No, I’m afraid this goes a wee bit further. Most people don’t need transfusion - certainly not for ordinary life. But everyone gets cut, some people quite badly, simply from the hazards of living. Did these aliens never have any wars? Did all their soldiers kill themselves after receiving any kind of wound? They never go into these questions, and leave us hanging a bit. > > Don’t get me wrong; it was a good episode and a neat idea. I just wish they’d gone a lot more in-depth on it. It winds up seeming like a very suicidal religion. I thought that they oppossed _deep_ cuts. As in, if the entire skin is broken through, then the soul will flee. A small cut isn’t bad, because most of the skin is still intact. And yes, I imagine that, if they had a war, and soldiers had deep wounds, they would not be healed, and some might kill themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-movie-cop-outs/320926.md?page=3)