# Worst Player in Cooperstown? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 17, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093 "2011-08-17T23:19:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/1 "2011-08-17T23:19:29Z")
How did he get in? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/2 "2011-08-17T23:22:43Z")
Ed Kranepool. Paid his admission ticket just like everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/3 "2011-08-18T00:09:58Z")
Not counting managers and stuff, I believe it’s George Kelly. I’m probably not the thousandth person to suggest it’s Kelly. Kelly was a good player but he was not one of the fifty best first basemen in the history of the major leagues. He wasn’t nearly as good a player as Wally Joyner. Kelly, and in fact a lot of the worst players in the Hall of Fame, got in because his former teammate, Frankie Frisch, was chairman of the Veterans Committee for awhile and convinced them to induct a lot of his old buddies. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/4 "2011-08-18T00:27:58Z")
I’d nominate Rabbit Marranville, another underwhelming player. ---
**Author:** ![KennerTheGreat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a8b319/32.png) [@KennerTheGreat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KennerTheGreat)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/5 "2011-08-18T02:20:33Z")
I’ll nominate [Tommy McCarthy.](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccarto01.shtml) In the New Historical Abstract, Bill James rated him the 88th best rightfielder of all time. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/6 "2011-08-18T03:01:20Z")
Ozzie Smith 260 hitter with no power who got in because he -played shortstop on carpet with true bounces all day long. But he could do a backflip. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/7 "2011-08-18T03:16:01Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Ozzie Smith 260 hitter with no power who got in because he -played shortstop on carpet with true bounces all day long. But he could do a backflip. Get out of town. He was a fantastic fielder before St Louis and he would have been great had he played on the moon. He also had good patience at the plate and was an above average hitter for a shortstop, when offense from the position was nearly impossible to come by. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/8 "2011-08-18T03:25:38Z")
Maybe the balls bounced true, **gonzo** , but fielding on turf is _fast_ and hard on the body. Nothing to sneer at. And the idea that Ozzie Smith is the _worst player in Cooperstown_, out of 240, is ridiculous. :rolleyes: He was a phenomenal defender on any surface, and better offensively than he is sometimes given credit for. I recall some good numbers in walks and steals for example. I don’t know if Tommy McCarthy is the answer or not, but I bet it _is_ somebody from those days when the Old Timers Committee was picking all their own old teammates, or guys they looked up to as kids. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/9 "2011-08-18T03:32:56Z")
Tinker to Evers to Chance… all three in the Hall, and all three undeserving in retrospect. Were it not for the poem they’d be all but unknown. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/10 "2011-08-18T03:48:54Z")
I thought Chance was deserving and the other two rode in on his coattails thanks to the poem. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/11 "2011-08-18T03:51:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Ozzie Smith 260 hitter with no power who got in because he -played shortstop on carpet with true bounces all day long. But he could do a backflip. Explain why he was such a brilliant fielder in San Diego. Ozzie was an easy Hall of Famer. He contributed on offense and he was the greatest defensive player in the history of the sport, in my humble opinion. * * * The worst pitcher, leaving aside relief pitchers because that’s a tough thing to consider, is probably Rube Marquard, another Frisch choice. Marquard wasn’t any better than, say, Dave Steib or Luis Tiant or lots and lots of other guys. If we are including relief pitchers, the induction of Bruce Sutter baffles me. What does Sutter have than Tom Henke doesn’t? Billy Wagner? Dan Quisenberry? [QUOTE=cmkeller] I thought Chance was deserving and the other two rode in on his coattails thanks to the poem. [/QUOTE] Chance’s credentials as a player are thin - he was an excellent player but in a very short career - but it has to be borne in mind he was player-manager of the great Cubs teams he played on, winning four pennants and two World Series, and so it is not precisely true to say he is in the Hall of Fame solely as a player. Evers and Tinker were not great choices, but they were better players than their dead ball era hitting stats would suggest. I don’t think I’d vote them in but I don’t think they’re as bad as the Frisch selections. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/12 "2011-08-18T03:53:19Z")
I nominate Jesse Haines, another underwhelming teammate of Frisch. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/13 "2011-08-18T05:53:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Kelly, and in fact a lot of the worst players in the Hall of Fame, got in because his former teammate, Frankie Frisch, was chairman of the Veterans Committee for awhile and convinced them to induct a lot of his old buddies. A more interesting question might be: Who is the worst HoF player outside of Frankie Frisch’s influence? ---
**Author:** ![minkyhaha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@minkyhaha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minkyhaha)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/14 "2011-08-18T10:20:15Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > A more interesting question might be: Who is the worst HoF player outside of Frankie Frisch’s influence? Ozzie Smith! ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/15 "2011-08-18T11:03:53Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Explain why he was such a brilliant fielder in San Diego. Please, for the love of god, don’t reward gonzomax with another Ozzie Smith debate wherein he refuses to even acknowledge the entire half of his career he played on grass. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/16 "2011-08-18T11:08:27Z")
Ozzie also played on the road sometimes. He was pretty skillful fielding on grass. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/17 "2011-08-18T14:22:23Z")
At SOME positions, being a brilliant glove man is not enough to merit Hall of Fame consideration. To use one example, Wes Parker is absolutely NOT a Hall of Famer, even though he was widely regarded as the best defensive 1st baseman ever. The difference between a so-so defensive 1st baseman and a stellar defensive 1st baseman just isn’t great enough. Shortstop is different. if you’re the best defensive shortstop of all time, you’d merit some serious consideration for the Hall of Fame even if you batted .245 with little or no power. I wouldn’t strongly object to Mark Belanger (a very weak hitter) being inducted for his glove alone. So, I REALLY can’t argue with Ozzie Smith, who was a MUCH better hitter than Belanger and a significantly better defensive player too! ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/18 "2011-08-18T14:45:02Z")
> [@KennerTheGreat](#): > > I’ll nominate [Tommy McCarthy.](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mccarto01.shtml) In the New Historical Abstract, Bill James rated him the 88th best rightfielder of all time. Indeed, McCarthy is the lowest ranked, at 803, non-manager HOFer on the list of [career WAR](http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_bat_career.shtml) for position players. Next lowest ranked postion player is Monte Irvin, but I don’t think his Negro League stats are included. Third lowest is one I’m surprised hasn’t been mentioned, Bill Mazeroski. He’s ranked 525th, tied with fellow 2nd baseman Frank White. If he’s in for his one big home run, where’s Roger Maris for his 1961 season? Maz did win several gold gloves. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/19 "2011-08-18T15:17:35Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Maz did win several gold gloves. He did a little more than that. I think Bill James ranked Maz as the most dominating defensive player ever. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093/20 "2011-08-18T15:19:35Z")
Barkis: > [@](#): > > Third lowest is one I’m surprised hasn’t been mentioned, Bill Mazeroski. He’s ranked 525th, tied with fellow 2nd baseman Frank White. If he’s in for his one big home run, where’s Roger Maris for his 1961 season? Maz did win several gold gloves. I considered mentioning Maz, but you have to admit he was considered probably the best fielding 2B of all time, and if Ozzie Smith deserves to be in for his glove, I don’t see why he wouldn’t too. Of course, the sense that Maz is in only due to the homer is pretty overwhelming. But no one’s arguing that Don Larsen should be inducted. If the homer is a factor, it’s only partially so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-player-in-cooperstown/593093.md?page=2)