# Worst. President. Ever. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250 "2003-02-02T05:22:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/81 "2003-02-03T00:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hank Fescue \* > \*\*If there is any evidence that Saddam has ever contributed to any unprovoked aggression towards us now would be the time to bring it forward. WTF has he done to us? I want to know if I am in the dark here. \*\* I agree. I don’t believe Saddam poses any threat to America _at the moment_. And I’m not sure what the urgency is on the part of Bush, aside from political maneuvering. But I do think that there are many terrorists out there who pose immediate and massive threats to all Americans, at home and abroad. I wish we would be using all our resources to find and eliminate these evils, and not waste so much time and energy on Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Caustic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@Capt.Caustic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Caustic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/82 "2003-02-03T00:32:55Z")
Rogue states would seem the most likely point of transfer of WMD to terrorists and it seems very sensible and prudent to secure the cache of weapons Saddam has ASAP. Those arguing so strenuously against the war on Iraq, would be the loudest with the recriminations should an Iraqi WMD be used on the US. I fully support the president and am pleased that he is ignoring his shrill critics. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Fescue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/49beb7/32.png) [@Hank\_Fescue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Fescue)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/83 "2003-02-03T00:51:36Z")
To what cache of weapons do you refer? Show me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/84 "2003-02-03T00:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Henry B \* > \*\*“It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.” > …George W. Bush \*\* Oh for crying out loud-Dan Quayle said that, NOT George W. Bush. Dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/85 "2003-02-03T01:25:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by YoungRepublican \* > \*\*i disagree that bush is the worst president. i think he has helped us through a very hard time and has been doin a very good job \*\* Hey George! Did Dick finally let you look at the internet? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Caustic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@Capt.Caustic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Caustic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/86 "2003-02-03T01:39:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hank Fescue \* > \*\*To what cache of weapons do you refer? Show me. \*\* Actually, the onus is on Saddam to show the UN that he has upheld his part of the cease fire agreement, and so far he has not done so, and in fact has practiced active obfuscation. Given that he had known amounts of chemical agents when the inspectors left, and has not show them evidence that he’s disposed of them, the non-naive approach is to assume he still has them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/87 "2003-02-03T01:42:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, the onus is on Saddam to show the UN that he has upheld his part of the cease fire agreement, and so far he has not done so, and in fact has practiced active obfuscation. In other words, Iraq has to prove a negative. This is obviously impossible. I want to see proof that Iraq _has_ WMD’s. Junor’s say-so carries no weight with me. ---
**Author:** ![jeel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@jeel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/88 "2003-02-03T01:52:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Ok, then, technically, no Vietnam was not a war, neither was Korea. But both of those conflicts abided by the Geneva convention and rules of engagement. > > The “war on terror” bears no resemblence at all to a war. This is not an armed conflict between nations. It is one bully nation arrogantly throwing it’s weight around and threatening any country which dares oppose it. It does this on the pretense that we are in some sort of crisis. We are not. Nothing has happened since 9/11, and nothing is _going_ to happen. Let’s quit pretending we are London under the blitzkrieg. We are not in imminent danger.\*\* I wonder if that is what Clinton must have thought after the U.S.S. Cole was bombed, after the U.S. Embassy bombing in Africa, and first WTC attack. Hmmmm. > [@](#): > > \*\* We just get off on showing everybody how tough we are-- as long as we have all the technology and heavy artillery on our side. Americans want nothing to do with a fair fight. If we did, we’d be going after north korea or China instead of ineffectual little despots in the desert. \*\* Okay Diogenes, let’s wait until Iraq is a “fair” fight. :rolleyes: Then everyone in Europe (Note: apparently France and Germany count for everyone) will respect us. By the way, “war”; “conflict”, “use of force”…no matter what you call it, it’s the reason American citizens don’t want to put as many people with your P.O.V. in office as they do Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/89 "2003-02-03T01:58:49Z")
Diog: > [@](#): > > Well, I think that Thomas is implying that the Bush administration depends on fear-mongering and McCarthyism to an unprecedented degree. I would add that he has done more to undermine democracy and civil rights than any other president. Fear mongering - These **are** scary times. Can you give me some examples of Bush depending on fear mongering? McCarthyism - What witch hunts are occuring? Undermine democracy - in what way? Civil rights - how and which are being undermined? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Fescue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/49beb7/32.png) [@Hank\_Fescue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Fescue)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/90 "2003-02-03T02:05:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Capt. Caustic \* > \*\*Rogue states would seem the most likely point of transfer of WMD to terrorists and it seems very sensible and prudent to secure the cache of weapons Saddam has ASAP. > > Those arguing so strenuously against the war on Iraq, would be the loudest with the recriminations should an Iraqi WMD be used on the US. I fully support the president and am pleased that he is ignoring his shrill critics. \*\* You say Saddam has a cache of weapons. Pony up. The UN wants to know what you know.:eek: Unfortunately I believe you have been spoon fed like alot of people and you believe it without any proof. I will wait for some proof like the rest of civilized world is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Semp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Semp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Semp)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/91 "2003-02-03T02:09:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > **But to say that there is no impending threat to our national security from any terrorists is absurd.** Technically, I agree with this, but I have to ask: is GWB creating more terrorists by the course of actions of his administration, or fewer? It’s discouraging, but I doubt it’s fewer. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeel \* > **I wonder if that is what Clinton must have thought after the U.S.S. Cole was bombed, after the U.S. Embassy bombing in Africa, and first WTC attack.** Is it fair to say the same thing about Reagan after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut and all the hostage taking and bombing that followed in his term? Probably. Was Reagan right? Looks like it. What did Clinton do that was different, really? Use cruise missiles instead of F-111s? Both used the legal system when needed. So why harp on Clinton when Reagan did the same? And as for the OP, until Bush gets Americans shooting at each other _en masse_ Buchanan wins the prize. Confederate apologists like to convince you that the Civil War started under Lincoln’s watch, but it didn’t- he just inherited it. ---
**Author:** ![jeel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@jeel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/92 "2003-02-03T02:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Semp \* > \*\*Is it fair to say the same thing about Reagan after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut and all the hostage taking and bombing that followed in his term? Probably. Was Reagan right? Looks like it. What did Clinton do that was different, really? Use cruise missiles instead of F-111s? Both used the legal system when needed. So why harp on Clinton when Reagan did the same? \*\*Yeah, Reagan should have done more! I should have mentioned it also. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/93 "2003-02-03T02:35:34Z")
> [@](#): > > _Scylla_ > Fear mongering - These are scary times. Can you give me some examples of Bush depending on fear mongering? What’s so scary about these times? I’m not scared? What are _you_ scared of? Oh and bush uses fear mongering every time he says that Iraq is a threat. > [@](#): > > McCarthyism - What witch hunts are occuring? It’s McCarthyism when the administration challenges the patriotism anyone who offers the slightest critique of Prine George. > [@](#): > > Undermine democracy - in what way? Well, he wasn’t really elected, was he? > [@](#): > > Civil rights - how and which are being undermined? Take a good look at the “Homeland security” bill which gives the government virtually unlimited license to spy on its citizens, to arrest them, and to hold them indefintely without representation and without specific charges. It allows the government to do all this in secrecy and with no accountability. We now live in a police state. America is dead, and GeeDub killed it. ---
**Author:** ![jeel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@jeel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/94 "2003-02-03T02:58:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*What’s so scary about these times? I’m not scared? What are _you_ scared of? > > Oh and bush uses fear mongering every time he says that Iraq is a threat. > > It’s McCarthyism when the administration challenges the patriotism anyone who offers the slightest critique of Prine George. > > Well, he wasn’t really elected, was he?\*\* Another sore sport huh? > [@](#): > > \*\*Take a good look at the “Homeland security” bill which gives the government virtually unlimited license to spy on its citizens, to arrest them, and to hold them indefintely without representation and without specific charges. It allows the government to do all this in secrecy and with no accountability. We now live in a police state. America is dead, and GeeDub killed it. \*\* Unlimited license? Police State? America is dead? Sounds like someone is disgruntled because he doesn’t like Bush. If you want to experience a country without freedom for it’s citizens, why don’t you move to Iraq? The only people that have to worry about being targeted by the Homeland Security Bill are those that are deemed to be “enemy combatants” by the President. I’m sure he’s targeting you. :rolleyes: Send a postcard from Gitmo! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/95 "2003-02-03T03:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > The only people that have to worry about being targeted by the Homeland Security Bill are those that are deemed to be “enemy combatants” by the President. Exactly. Guilt by decree. A police state. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Caustic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@Capt.Caustic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Caustic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/96 "2003-02-03T03:12:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hank Fescue \* > \*\*You say Saddam has a cache of weapons. Pony up. The UN wants to know what you know.:eek: > > Unfortunately I believe you have been spoon fed like alot of people and you believe it without any proof. I will wait for some proof like the rest of civilized world is doing. \*\* I’m sure if you start with the premise that the government always lies to the public for nefarious purposes, then you’d feel that any agreement or belief in their assertions is uncritical consumption of what’s “spoon fed” to me. Perhaps I’m just horribly naive, but I choose not to be so paranoid, and am not so morally vain that I think I or those of my political persuasion have a monopoly on integrity or good intention. The post-9/11 world means we can’t continue the policy of playing three card monty with Saddam. The stakes are too high. ---
**Author:** ![jeel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@jeel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/97 "2003-02-03T03:18:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Exactly. Guilt by decree. A police state. \*\* Okay, you’ve changed my mind. Let’s take down the concrete barriers around federal buildings. Let’s open our borders without restriction to foreign students from the Middle East. Let’s abolish the Transportations Safety Administration, and release the detainees we are holding in Guantanamo Bay. This is an outrage! We are living in a country where we have to fear that men with machine guns will raid our homes in the middle of the night! All because of the Homeland Security Bill! Our rights are gone!!! Oh MY!!! What time does that bus for Canada leave? ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Caustic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@Capt.Caustic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Caustic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/98 "2003-02-03T03:20:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeel \* > \*\*Okay, you’ve changed my mind. Let’s take down the concrete barriers around federal buildings. Let’s open our borders without restriction to foreign students from the Middle East. Let’s abolish the Transportations Safety Administration, and release the detainees we are holding in Guantanamo Bay. This is an outrage! We are living in a country where we have to fear that men with machine guns will raid our homes in the middle of the night! All because of the Homeland Security Bill! Our rights are gone!!! Oh MY!!! What time does that bus for Canada leave? \*\* Wow, I guess Diogenes is as good a “fear-monger” as GWB. ;). ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/99 "2003-02-03T03:23:18Z")
diog: > [@](#): > > What’s so scary about these times? I’m not scared? What are you scared of? This whole huge group of fundamental extremists in the Middle East that hate us, want to kill us, and have succeeded in atacks against us. > [@](#): > > Oh and bush uses fear mongering every time he says that Iraq is a threat. I think Iraq is a threat. > [@](#): > > It’s McCarthyism when the administration challenges the patriotism anyone who offers the slightest critique of Prine George. I haven’t seen this. > [@](#): > > Well, he wasn’t really elected, was he? Actually he was. We determine elections through the electoral college, and that went smoothly. > [@](#): > > Take a good look at the “Homeland security” bill which gives the government virtually unlimited license to spy on its citizens, to arrest them, and to hold them indefintely without representation and without specific charges. It allows the government to do all this in secrecy and with no accountability. We now live in a police state. America is dead, and GeeDub killed it. I asked you a bunch of questions in the hopes that you had debatable propositions and logical criteria for your choice. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/100 "2003-02-03T03:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeel \* > \*\*Okay, you’ve changed my mind. Let’s take down the concrete barriers around federal buildings. Let’s open our borders without restriction to foreign students from the Middle East. Let’s abolish the Transportations Safety Administration, and release the detainees we are holding in Guantanamo Bay. This is an outrage! We are living in a country where we have to fear that men with machine guns will raid our homes in the middle of the night! All because of the Homeland Security Bill! Our rights are gone!!! Oh MY!!! What time does that bus for Canada leave? \*\* Very amusing. You must be one of these people who deserves neither freedom nor security: > [@](#): > > _Benjamin Franklin_ > Those who would give up any amount of freedom, no matter how small, in exchange for security deserve neither freedom nor security. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250.md?page=6)