# Worst. President. Ever. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250 "2003-02-02T05:22:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/121 "2003-02-03T13:27:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _BeatenMan_ > It’s about time you got it!!! Thats right if you don’t help with our war on terror we will stop your ass, or cut you off from the rest of the world or screw you any way we can because we have the power the might and the money and fucking with us well it’s just not worth it. This is how you stop terrorism. I would like to give Diogenes the Cynic a boxing lesson and teach him the art of counter punching. Maybe he might learn something. This kind of attitude is exactly why the rest of the world despises the US. Unfortunately, arrogant threats and self-important bravado only create more terrorism. And keep your moronic physical threats out of GD please. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/122 "2003-02-03T13:31:20Z")
H. L. Mencken, the sage of Baltimore, had this to say about Warren G. Harding’s use of the English language: “It reminds me of a string of wet sponges; it reminds me of tattered washing on the line; it reminds me of stale bean soup, of college yells, of dogs barking idiotically through endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it. It drags itself out of a dark abysm… of pish, and crawls insanely up the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and doodle. It is balder and dash.” I believe that same could be said for Presidents Bush I and II, neither of whom is the most eloquent or charismatic spearker. As far as overall ability, there are simply too many ways to be bad for any one of thme to be “the worst.” ---
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/123 "2003-02-03T14:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aahala \* > \*\* > Harding was named, and certainly deserves additional mention. His administration was by far the most corrupt of any before or since. Also noteworthy were the reports of the circumstances of Harding’s death which were mysterious, until it became an open secret his widow was looking for letters to destroy he may have sent to female acquaintances. > > The two men following Harding will make some people’s worst list. Coolidge did little (and said even less) and Hoover’s stated economic goal of “a chicken in every pot” promptly turned into the Great Depression, followed by what most believe was exceedingly ineffective remedies. \*\* Grant and Harding aren’t in the running. Corruption is almost always bad, but ti’s not the same as successfully leading us away from democracy and towards fascism. It’s not even in the same ballpark. IF we successfully recover the freedoms we had before September 11, 2001, then historians will say we dodged the bullet yet again. Otherwise, they’ll be forced to say that Bush II was the start of the greatest age of American power and beneficient dominance of th world. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/124 "2003-02-03T14:37:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*Oh, come on! On their very worst day, no Democratic admin has EVER passed anything as fascist as the Homeland Security Act. \*\* This must be some kind of a joke. You do remember FDR was a Democrat? You do remember he authorized the imprisonment of tens of thousands of U.S. citizens into concentration camps just because of their race, right? Sorry, but it’s just laughable to suggest the Homeland Security Act even begins to approach the internment of Japanese Americans on a scale of fascism. To match it, Bush would have had to approve a law that allowed the FBI to round up Americans of Arab descent by the tens of thousands, take all their property, and stuff them into trains headed for concentration camps in the middle of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/125 "2003-02-03T14:38:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by greenteeth \* > \*\*How come if conservatives are fearful of government they are laughed off as being paranoid hicks, but if Democrats are fearful they are treated as defenders of freedom? > \*\* I just love this guy. Now all Democrats are not conservative. Take a look at the voting records of Joe Lieberman and Russ Feingold. They probably would look better to you than say, Lincoln Chafee or Olympia Snow… ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/126 "2003-02-03T15:06:46Z")
Let’s remember that even Abraham Lincoln, the saint of saints when it comes to US Presidents, played fast and loose with the Constitution and effectively suspended habeus corpus. Even the best presidents have resorted to some pretty questionable practices (of course, these were usually in unique circumstances - Harding was a bad president during good times). ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/127 "2003-02-03T15:18:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Imprisoning the Japanese-Americans during WWII? \*\* You’re right, the Japanese internment was a huge act of fascism, but you know what? It was a one-of-a-kind knock off thing. It got rolled back fast after the end of World War II, which was a real war, not an undeclared war against shadowy terrorists. Homeland is a blueprint for fascist terrorism, and the fact that Bush is the one who imprlemented it meansw nothing. LIEBERMAN was the one who originally came up with it. It oughtta scare you conservatives senseless. No matter what the party or ideological affiliation of HSA, it’s a direct attack on the foundations of American democracy. Whereas the Japanese internment, while a shameful lapse in democratic principles of government, didn’t provide a mechanism to legally make political enemies “disappear.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/128 "2003-02-03T15:28:00Z")
The trail of tears was just one episode in a centuries-long campaign of genocide against native Americans. Like slavery, it’s more a product of a very sick culture than of government, and I don’t think ascribing responsibility for it to particular administration makes much sense. ---
**Author:** ![jeel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@jeel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/129 "2003-02-03T15:29:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **This kind of attitude is exactly why the rest of the world despises the US. Unfortunately, arrogant threats and self-important bravado only create more terrorism.** The rest of the world does not despise the U.S.! That’s just your little fantasy. However, It’s overly apparent that _you_ hate the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/130 "2003-02-03T15:39:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeel \* > \*\*The rest of the world does not despise the U.S.! That’s just your little fantasy. However, It’s overly apparent that _you_ hate the U.S. \*\* It would perhaps be more accurate to say that the attitude **BeatenMan** was exhibiting is an attribute that the rest of the world despises about the US. Fortunately, many non-Americans have enough sense to realize that not all Americans hold those views, and thus don’t tar them with such a wide brush. Which is not to say that “We’re the USA and we can kick your butt!” is a sensible approach to foreign policy. Me, I love the US. Which is why I’d much prefer that my fellow Americans stop _embarrassing_ me in front of the other countries… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Zahn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e0b2c6/32.png) [@John\_Zahn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Zahn)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/131 "2003-02-03T16:24:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > They hate for some very good reasons, you know (as well as some bad ones). Maybe we should try remove the planks from our own eyes and all that. It looks to me that state run news agencies, along with religious fanaticism indoctrination at an early age and throughout their life plays huge roles in why the hate is so strong. America doesn’t have a voice over there. They don’t get to hear our side. When given reasons why Middle Easterner’s say they hate us, some say American infidels have soiled their Holy land by our presence on their land. That doesn’t sound like a good enough reason to me. They say America supports Israel’s military. True, we do. When many Muslim extremist’s decide they no longer want to send every Jew out into the sea, maybe America will no longer be supporting Israel militarily. The fact that America prevents that from happening, still isn’t good enough reason for them to hate us. They also say they want us out of the Persian Gulf. Why? Is it because if we left maybe some of the smaller religious militant fanatics could possibly gain more power for themselves, and then have a fighting chance to overthrow some of the existing governments? While strategically America wants a steady flow of oil coming out of the Persian Gulf, I do sometimes wonder if we really need our presence over there. Maybe our government feels like if some of the Muslim extremists seen to it that we left, they could possibly wreck so much havoc in this area, that the oil would then flow to a trickle, which would probably suit the more radical of them just fine. Most of these countries leaders though, realize they have huge debts to pay, and oil is basically their only precious resource. Unless their is a huge world demand on sand in the foreseeable future, I think it is in their best interest to keep the oil flowing. Anyway, what are the good reasons why they hate us? JZ ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/132 "2003-02-03T17:10:19Z")
Tejota: > [@](#): > > But in retrospect, it’s clear that Osama’s talent pool just aint that big. He pretty much shot is wad on 9/11. Tell that to the folks in Bali or Kenya. Evil Captor: > [@](#): > > Oh, come on! On their very worst day, no Democratic admin has EVER passed anything as fascist as the Homeland Security Act. True. They don’t “pass” it, they just _do_ it, like all those FBI files that Clinton had for no apparent legitimate reason, in the hands of a man no one in his administration would admit to hiring. ---
**Author:** ![Kitfox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f6c823/32.png) [@Kitfox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kitfox)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/133 "2003-02-03T17:37:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*The trail of tears was just one episode in a centuries-long campaign of genocide against native Americans. Like slavery, it’s more a product of a very sick culture than of government, and I don’t think ascribing responsibility for it to particular administration makes much sense. \*\* Sure it does. Jackson’s deliberate ignoring of his constitution duty to enforce the laws of the US in regards to Native Americans set the precident that allowed the genocide to happen. Before this, they had at least some protection under the law. Afterwards, they were allowed to exist at the whim of the White Government. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/134 "2003-02-03T18:10:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Exactly _how_ do you think Hussein can hurt us, especially since he clearly does _not_ have WMD’s? > \*\* [Wrong,](http://quickstart.clari.net/qe_se/webnews/wed/dp/Airaq-mustard-gas.RWzc-CD6.html) - very [wrong,](http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,5905491%255E701,00.html) in fact. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > Do you live in an alternate universe …_\* No, I don’t think it’s me that lives in one. Maybe Helen Thomas does - a universe in which Clinton, Carter, and Nixon were never President. Apparently she doesn’t live there alone, unfortunately. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/135 "2003-02-03T19:53:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _jeel_ > The rest of the world does not despise the U.S.! That’s just your little fantasy. However, It’s overly apparent that you hate the U.S. I don’t have to fantasize, jeel, I’ve spent a good part of my life over seas. I lived in England as a kid and traveled around Europe multiple times. I graduated from high school in West Africa. As an adult I spent a summer in Brazil and I was in Saudi during the Gulf war (as a non-combatant). I can assure that Americans are not thought well of. I have a vivid memory of watching the movie _Rambo_ at a theater in Brasilia in 1985. The crowd kept booing Rambo and cheering for the VC. I often found it easier in my travels to tell people I was Canadian rather than American. Too many people wanted to pick fights with Americans. As for me, I don’t hate America, but I object to my government committing immoral acts on my behalf. I also don’t have any illusion that people born on this piece of dirt are better than people born on some other piece of dirt. ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/136 "2003-02-03T20:04:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > **Too many people wanted to pick fights with Americans.** Not to pick a fight with you or anything, but this simply has not been my experience, not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/137 "2003-02-03T20:06:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Not to pick a fight with you or anything, but this simply has not been my experience, not at all. Where have you been? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/138 "2003-02-03T22:53:47Z")
Sure, Andrew Johnson is a definite contender. But as to recent presidents, I’d have to say Carter. (He has some great skills, but making snap decisions was not one of them, and the President has to. He couldn’t). But we are going to have to wait on GWB. Sure, it seems doubtful he’ll make it onto the 10 BEST list, but… Since WWII, the only definite “great man” was JFK. Clinton might make either list, although I think he is one of the better we’ve had since WWII. Nixon- clearly one of the “10 worst”- even for the “all time” list. Who else do we have? Reagan- a nice honest man, who trusted too many crooked advisors- tainted by too many scandals. Should have not run for that second term. Bush sr.- rode in on coat-tails, and didn’t do much, quite unpopular. Couldn’t win re-election. Ike- popular, but didn’t do much. Truman- a contender for “10 best”. Johnson? “machine pol”. Ford? a non-enity. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/139 "2003-02-03T23:12:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*Since WWII, the only definite “great man” was JFK. \*\* Now this is a curious pick. Why would you put JFK in the pantheon? I mean, sure he looked awful pretty, was one of the best orators to hold the office (only Reagan was in his league on that front) and the assassination makes people want to see him through rose colored glasses, but I think his presidency was a mixed bag (e.g., Cuban Missile Crisis vs. Bay of Pigs). To be sure, I don’t think JFK was terrible or anything – I think he was, on balance, a very capable president. But I’m not prepared to put him in the company of Washington or Lincoln. I’m curious as to why you would. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250/140 "2003-02-03T23:26:17Z")
I think Kennedy’s strength was that he was a genuinely inspiring personality-- in fact he is probably the only 20th century prez who was (although I would allow room for FDR). JFK showed true character during the Cuban missile crisis, standing up to advisors who wanted him to go nuclear. The Bay of Pigs was a disaster, but it was well intended and Jack stood up like a man and took the fall for it when it failed. I don’t believe any recent prez would do the same. And he was a war hero, an authentic war hero, not a “war hero.” The PT109 story is amazing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-president-ever/152250.md?page=8)