# Worst retcons **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410 "2017-01-05T19:32:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/61 "2017-01-10T18:35:05Z")
The Flash’s accident that gave him powers was the result of meddling by a doofus called Mopee. Later reretconned to the much better but still overly complicated version where the lightning bolt that hit the chemicals was Barry himself, transformed and sent through time due to the events of Crisis. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/62 "2017-01-10T18:46:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > “So, what I told you was true…from a certain point of view.” I would argue this is not a retcon. The character’s name indicates that there’s nothing retroactively determined about this reveal. This is just Old Ben getting caught in a lie and trying to justify it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/63 "2017-01-10T20:03:47Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Originally after the “parsec” line in the first movie, the simplest explanation was that parsec was a measure of time, not distance, in the SW universe. That explanation doesn’t work at all for me. The characters in these movies are only using English words because it’s a story for an English-speaking audience, but within the fiction of the setting, “English” isn’t something that exists. They’re all speaking some other language, that’s translated to English for us for our convenience. When Han refers to his ship, he doesn’t say the word “ship,” he says a word that means “a vessel for transporting people or goods” in his language. When he says “twelve,” he doesn’t say the word “twelve,” he says a word that means “one more than eleven” in his language. And when he says “parsec,” he’s not saying the word “parsec,” he’s saying a word in his language that means “about 3.26 light years.” I mean, you might as well use this logic to say that when Obi-Wan said Vader “betrayed and murdered your father,” “betrayed and murdered” are just words in his language for “actually he is your dad.” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/64 "2017-01-10T20:14:05Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The new season of _Bones_ has started off …, well, it’s _Bones_, what do you expect at this point. (At least this will be the last season.) > > They are retconning some stuff concerning Zack. Doesn’t really play well. We stopped watching (way after we should have) - but this has me curious - and I refuse to watch it to satisfy it. Would you please spoiler it for me? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/65 "2017-01-10T20:21:17Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Imagine if they had an organization of people who spend their lives training to use a mystical force, hey call it The Force, both to fight and to perceive things. They can get premonitions of events, see into the hearts of people near them, and sense other force users. Now imagine that someone who was well trained by that organization could use the force to see the force potential in another person, turned that sense onto the kid, and was amazed by what he saw. I guess you’d have to retcon… oh wait, that organization is the Jedi, and the Jedi and the Force have been a major part of Star Wars since the beginning. No, that part would work just fine. The problem would come in when you still have every Jedi _other_ than Qui-Gon Jinn saying “eh, no, we think it’s a bad idea.” If he makes his case and gets their reluctant grudging agreement by talking up the kid’s midichlorian count – yeah, okay, the guys who outrank him still have a bad feeling about this, but he makes a solid case based on objective evidence. By contrast, if he wins them over by having them see into the mystical heart of the youth or the universe or whatever with magic premonition vision – well, then, what, they’re _still_ reluctant and only grudgingly agree to reverse their decision while having a bad feeling about it? That seems different and weird; plus it seems like they should sense, y’know, the other big dark looming stuff. But if it’s a quantifiable midichlorian count, that’s all they see. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/66 "2017-01-10T20:30:55Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > What scenes show Professor Xavier from after the end of _Last Stand_ and before the alteration of the timeline in _Days of Future Past_? Clearly, after the events of the second prequel, the timeline has altered enough that Jean Grey and Cyclops are still alive, so presumably at that point, Professor X could be alive, too. But I don’t recall if there were scenes in either _The Wolverine_ or _Days of Future Past_ from before the timeline alteration that show Professor X alive after he was dead. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Professor X is alive in the future before they alter the timeline. That’s the whole plot of the movie is him reaching out to his younger self. Professor X, in wheelchair, also shows up in the after-the-credits scene in The Wolverine. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/67 "2017-01-10T20:53:44Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > For an in-continuity retcon (if that makes any sense), The Spider-Marriage. > > It’s a bit hard to explain if you don’t already know about it, but the short version is that some Marvel editors never could wrap their heads around Spider-man and kept trying to “fix” the character, which always meant changing him back to whatever he was when the editor in question was 16. One such editor demanded they get rid of his marriage, which was handled in-continuity as _Spider-man literally selling his marriage to the devil_\*. A million times this. I grew up with married Spider-Man. Spider-Man became my favorite before I even read an issue with Peter Parker being single. Spider-Man was Marvel’s (non-mutant) biggest cash cow with at times from four to six monthly series all through the eighties and nineties as a married guy. But suddenly, “oh, no, kids can’t relate to a man who’s married”. It still makes me sick thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/68 "2017-01-10T23:47:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > No, that part would work just fine. The problem would come in when you still have every Jedi _other_ than Qui-Gon Jinn saying “eh, no, we think it’s a bad idea.” There’s no problem at all. They use the force to sense that he’s got strong potential (the same thing as a high midochlorian count) or just take Qui-Gon’s word that he felt it, and have the EXACT SAME information without adding midochlorians to the mix. They can still consider it a bad idea for the EXACT SAME REASONS they did in the movie. Midochlorians are an awful retcon, and there’s really no defense of them being added. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/69 "2017-01-10T23:49:47Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > A million times this. I grew up with married Spider-Man. Spider-Man became my favorite before I even read an issue with Peter Parker being single. Spider-Man was Marvel’s (non-mutant) biggest cash cow with at times from four to six monthly series all through the eighties and nineties as a married guy. > > But suddenly, “oh, no, kids can’t relate to a man who’s married”. It still makes me sick thinking about it. Not to mention the character assassination of Gwen Stacy banging Norman Osborn! ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/70 "2017-01-11T00:22:48Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Midochlorians are an awful retcon, and there’s really no defense of them being added. In Star Wars (as I recall), Obi-Wan offers to teach Han some Force techniques, which certainly suggests that everyone can use the Force to some extent or another (it also raises questions about how a child can be too old to safely learn Force techniques). ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/71 "2017-01-11T00:34:39Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Not to mention the character assassination of Gwen Stacy banging Norman Osborn! Yeah. And a pretty ugly retcon at that. Of course, it’s not like Spidey has been ever impervious to this kind of nonsense. From aunt May’s alleged death (excellent story, written by DeMatteis, she dies beautifully quoting Peter Pan) being retconned as Doc Ock hiring a dying actress to take May’s place- uhh- because? to anything related to the Clone Saga. But One More Day killed me. The idea behind it was nonsense, and the execution offensive in several levels. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/72 "2017-01-11T01:45:32Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Way back in 1977, Starlog magazine devoted a ton of column inches to this very question. I think even David Gerrold weighed in in a column with some fan-wanky “explanation”. And even then, I thought they missed the point. (With no sequels to use for additional information) Solo’s comment means one of two things: he’s trying to test the yokels to see how much he can put over on them, or he isn’t actually the brains of the duo, and that Chewie does all the hard thinking, and Solo is just the front man. I vote for the first. I’ve always thought it was just Lucas not knowing the proper terminology. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/73 "2017-01-11T13:08:08Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Professor X pretty clearly exploded to pieces in X-Men: The Last Stand. And sure, his consciousness could be transferred to a new body. But in future movies, even set in the future, there he is, in his old Patrick Stewart body. Wheelchair and all. As far as I know, there’s no explanation for how they put him back together. All the King’s Horses and All the King’s Men got a lot of practice with old Humpty, and got it right the next time. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/74 "2017-01-11T16:14:52Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I’ve always thought it was just Lucas not knowing the proper terminology. This is the real reason. The script used the wrong word. All the attempts to create an in-universe explanation for it–that parsec is a unit of time in their galaxy, that Han figured out a way to make the trip shorter, that Han is a bullshitter, are retcons of the fact that Lucas made an error in the script. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/75 "2017-01-11T16:47:00Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > This is the real reason. The script used the wrong word. > > All the attempts to create an in-universe explanation for it–that parsec is a unit of time in their galaxy, that Han figured out a way to make the trip shorter, that Han is a bullshitter, are retcons of the fact that Lucas made an error in the script. No! Next you’ll be telling us that scientists and engineers really DO pronounce it “JIGAwatts” instead of hard-G “GIGAwatts” ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/76 "2017-01-11T21:06:10Z")
> [@simster](#): > > We stopped watching (way after we should have) - but this has me curious - and I refuse to watch it to satisfy it. > > Would you please spoiler it for me? Re: _Bones_ stuff. [spoiler]At the end of last season, while hunting for a serial killer with a thing for Bones, we find out that Zack is the mastermind behind it. But in the season 12 opener, things aren’t so clear. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. Other people become suspects as well including Sara Rue. (Not Dr. Stephanie!) It turns out he was being manipulated by the head of the psych hospital who is the Big Bad. (But a lot of that doesn’t make sense.) Somehow all of this leads to people believing that Zack wasn’t actually guilty of the murder(s) while under the sway of the Gormogon. This is the retcon part that bothers me. The implication is that Zack is being rehabilitated- legally. Still going to be in a psych unit, for now. There’s still the burn scars and a weight gain that takes away the boy-nerd look of yesteryear. (Typing this makes me feel like I’m summarizing a comic book from the 50s.) I never liked them turning Zack evil and all. But this isn’t right either.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/77 "2017-01-12T00:57:45Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Re: _Bones_ stuff. > > [spoiler]At the end of last season, while hunting for a serial killer with a thing for Bones, we find out that Zack is the mastermind behind it. > > But in the season 12 opener, things aren’t so clear. Maybe he is, maybe he isn’t. Other people become suspects as well including Sara Rue. (Not Dr. Stephanie!) > > It turns out he was being manipulated by the head of the psych hospital who is the Big Bad. (But a lot of that doesn’t make sense.) > > Somehow all of this leads to people believing that Zack wasn’t actually guilty of the murder(s) while under the sway of the Gormogon. This is the retcon part that bothers me. > > The implication is that Zack is being rehabilitated- legally. Still going to be in a psych unit, for now. There’s still the burn scars and a weight gain that takes away the boy-nerd look of yesteryear. > > (Typing this makes me feel like I’m summarizing a comic book from the 50s.) > > I never liked them turning Zack evil and all. But this isn’t right either.[/spoiler] thanks - I actually thought they dealt with the gormagonadomu bit when Sweet’s was taking him back to the hospital after he escaped (so many seasons ago) - but sounds like I’ve made a good decision overall. Thanks again for typing that out. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/78 "2017-01-12T03:20:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That explanation doesn’t work at all for me. The characters in these movies are only using English words because it’s a story for an English-speaking audience, but within the fiction of the setting, “English” isn’t something that exists. They’re all speaking some other language, that’s translated to English for us for our convenience. When Han refers to his ship, he doesn’t say the word “ship,” he says a word that means “a vessel for transporting people or goods” in his language. When he says “twelve,” he doesn’t say the word “twelve,” he says a word that means “one more than eleven” in his language. And when he says “parsec,” he’s not saying the word “parsec,” he’s saying a word in his language that means “about 3.26 light years.” > > I mean, you might as well use this logic to say that when Obi-Wan said Vader “betrayed and murdered your father,” “betrayed and murdered” are just words in his language for “actually he is your dad.” Ok… and our interpreter for this otherworldly language they are speaking? Is George Lucas, the script writer. Who made a mistake. So I guess according to your theory language mistakes in the movie, bad grammar and such, are completely impossible since it’s all coming through a universal translator. Oh which, by the way, also somehow alters their mouths so it looks like they’re speaking English too. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/79 "2017-01-12T04:15:48Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > Ok… and our interpreter for this otherworldly language they are speaking? Is George Lucas, the script writer. Who made a mistake. > > So I guess according to your theory language mistakes in the movie, bad grammar and such, are completely impossible since it’s all coming through a universal translator. Oh which, by the way, also somehow alters their mouths so it looks like they’re speaking English too. Well, no. I didn’t say anything about a “universal translator.” I’m not talking about an in-story plot device, like they use on Star Trek. I’m talking about an exceedingly common technique in film and TV where you have people speaking a language for the convenience of the audience, that clearly the characters aren’t actually speaking. Take, for example, any movie set in ancient Rome. Clearly, in _Gladiator_, Russel Crowe’s character isn’t speaking English, because the English language didn’t exist yet. But they’re not going to film the whole movie in Latin and expect mainstream audiences to sit through it. The characters speak English, and the audience understands that the dialogue is “translated” for their convenience. _Star Wars_ does the same thing. None of the characters are speaking “English” within the fiction of the story, because there’s no such place as “England” in the Star Wars universe. They’re speaking their own alien moon language, which is rendered as English because it’s easier to make movies that way. There’s obviously still bad grammar - this is the film franchise that gave us Yoda, after all - but when someone in the film says “ain’t,” they ain’t saying “ain’t,” they’re saying some alien cognate that carries roughly the same cultural and social baggage as the non-standard construction “ain’t.” All of that is an out-of-universe explanation for why everyone in a galaxy far, far away speaks 20th century colloquial English. Looping back to the subject of parsecs, “George Lucas doesn’t know what a parsec is,” is a strong out-of-universe explanation for why that line of dialogue exists. “Parsec means something different in their language,” on the other hand, would be an _in_-universe explanation of that line. But as an in-universe explanation, it doesn’t really work, because it introduces more problems than it solves: namely, that the rest of the dialogue we hear in the film is meant to be understood as _actually being in English._ Which is ridiculous, because of the aforementioned lack of any place called England in that galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![TYphoonSignal8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@TYphoonSignal8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TYphoonSignal8)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410/80 "2017-01-13T07:21:55Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > The second _Highlander_ movie is often cited as the worst sequel ever, and one reason is because it mutilated the first movie’s premise. That one made me mad. It was utterly unnecessary and entirely cocked-up a brilliant premise. Aliens?! You douches. I seem to be one of the few people who liked _Batman v Superman_. But I was disappointed that it couldn’t incorporate the ending to the Dark Knight trilogy (especially as Nolan left that open ,with the keys to the wonderful toys handed over to “Robin”). How happy I was, as a long-time “Batman” reader, to see Bruce Wayne actually get a peaceful ending to his career as a tortured vigilante, putting a full stop to the violent expression of the trauma of seeing his parents murdered. And how delightful was it that Alfred saw that too, and could stop worrying about his friend, the haunted boy he brought up. In that regard, an aged and tired Bruce Wayne who never retired with Selina Kyle, appearing in the DC superhero movies as Batman, is a retcon and one for sentimental reasons I am unhappy with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-retcons/776410.md?page=5)