# Worst town/city in Canada? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 6, 2007, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123 "2007-02-06T20:27:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![St\_Ides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@St\_Ides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St_Ides)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/21 "2007-02-07T02:54:08Z")
[QUOTE=Foldup Rabbit] Nothing I loved more than waking up to the smell of rotting eggs. [/QUOTE] I’d call it more of a “drinking too much gin while eating a pine tree, then vomiting” smell. Or maybe that was just my time in Thunder Bay. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/22 "2007-02-07T03:38:54Z")
For small towns, Brooks AB. The whole town is centered around a slaughterhouse, and on intermittent days the entire area within a 10km radius would smell like a giant rotten carcass. Drive through it and not even rolling up your windows will save you from the smell, it’s strong enough to overwhelm your car air filters. I had the misfortune to arrive on a good day with no smell to visit a friends house (apparently jobs there paid quite well), and halfway through the day the wind changed and I was poleaxed by the smell as I stepped out of the door.I spent the entire time sitting with my friend at McDonalds, the only entertainment venue close enough to reach without suffocating. There may have been others in the town but I doubt it. I’ve been to some pretty desolate little towns with the Army, but nothing I couldn’t deal with. Brooks - The whole place smelled like death. For larger cities, I’ve never been to the east, but I can’t imagine anything could be much worse than Winnipeg. Truly, the only way I could possible enjoy a visit to Winnieg would be at the head of a horde of fur clad steppe warriors cutting a swath of burning destruction in my path, with a never ending supply of industrial strength mosquito repellent. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/23 "2007-02-07T04:04:29Z")
I spent a summer in Winnipeg, and I have no interest in ever living there again. There is nothing in particular that strikes me as terrible about it, but nothing that strikes me as fantastic, either. I guess the best description would be a very “meh” city. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/24 "2007-02-07T04:31:33Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Truly, the only way I could possible enjoy a visit to Winnieg would be at the head of a horde of fur clad steppe warriors cutting a swath of burning destruction in my path, with a never ending supply of industrial strength mosquito repellent. [/QUOTE] Nah, that’s not fun either. Brooks smells bad. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/25 "2007-02-07T05:55:40Z")
**Hamish** has some choice words for his hometown of Esquimalt, BC. From what he’s told me, the main topic of conversation among young people is where they’ll go when they leave; despite the rampant, insane homophobia and gang violence (Reena Virk was killed there), gay kids actually have a slight advantage in that they’re unlikely to get pregnant or get someone pregnant, and be caught there forever. I think he’ll get at least one or two novels out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Foldup\_Rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Foldup\_Rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foldup_Rabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/26 "2007-02-07T09:13:59Z")
Aww… My first apartment out of high school was in Esquimalt and I always had some pretty fond memories of the place. But then, I spent most of my time on the base. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/27 "2007-02-07T14:43:25Z")
[QUOTE=St\_Ides] I’d call it more of a “drinking too much gin while eating a pine tree, then vomiting” smell. Or maybe that was just my time in Thunder Bay. [/QUOTE] My sister says Thunder Bay is quite nice. Of course, _she_ lives in Sault Ste. Marie. Which reminds me of Oshawa, except that it is more islolated, has ferocious winters, and also has all the sleaze and charm of a border town. And it has a casino downtown, located in what is essentially a giant permanent tent. I still think Oshawa is worse, though. At least Sault Ste. Marie is near the stunning beauty of the Canadian Shield country. My second summer job was in the GM plant in Oshawa, and their idea of high culture and entertainment was to go across the road to the bar at the end of the shift and get drunk. :rolleyes: > [@Weirddave](#): > > [Torontonians] really do seem to think that their city is on par with NYC though, which is laughable. They have no idea how much they’re NOT NYC. And not just in the good ways. This is one of the things that really embarasses me about Toronto: the “civic booster” sector of the population that goes on and on about how, after some pet project or lame advertising campaign is finished, everyone else will finally admit that we are a “world class” city like New York and everybody will finally take us seriously. Bunch of insecure semi-scammy jerks. No-one will take us seriously until we stop trying to pretend to be someone else and just be ourselves, take it or leave it. Toronto in many ways peaked back in the seventies, and I sensed a significant shift around 1985, when the whole “world class” meme started to appear in the corporate media. So yeah, we grew up and are “world class”, ifr by that you mean that we have lots of beggars, sky-high rent, the occasional drive-by shooting, and an underfunded, dirty transit system. But that’s not the kind of “world class” I want to be. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Machine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Ice\_Machine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Machine)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/28 "2007-02-07T15:23:59Z")
I’ve lived in the following cities: Kitchener Sarnia St. Catharines Cornwall Cornwall was by far the worst but at least it’s only about an hour from either Ottawa or Montreal. I’m surprised no one has mentioned Windsor. It’s usually the city I hear of but I’ve never lived there, only passed through. Folks from Detroit seem to think it’s an improvement from their side of the river. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/29 "2007-02-07T15:39:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] This is one of the things that really embarasses me about Toronto: the “civic booster” sector of the population that goes on and on about how, after some pet project or lame advertising campaign is finished, everyone else will finally admit that we are a “world class” city like New York and everybody will finally take us seriously. Bunch of insecure semi-scammy jerks. No-one will take us seriously until we stop trying to pretend to be someone else and just be ourselves, take it or leave it. Toronto in many ways peaked back in the seventies, and I sensed a significant shift around 1985, when the whole “world class” meme started to appear in the corporate media. So yeah, we grew up and are “world class”, ifr by that you mean that we have lots of beggars, sky-high rent, the occasional drive-by shooting, and an underfunded, dirty transit system. But that’s not the kind of “world class” I want to be. [/QUOTE] Meh, aside from a few advertising wonks I don’t see it much. You get a lot more hate directed _at_ Toronto for this alleged offence than is actually warranted by any ‘attitude’ on the part of the vast majority of the population. Toronto is more the city other Canadians love to hate. Living there actually ain’t bad. Really, who cares about lame-ass advertising campaigns? Civic boosterism is _always_ embarrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/30 "2007-02-07T15:40:51Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] \So yeah, we grew up and are “world class”, ifr by that you mean that we have lots of beggars, sky-high rent, the occasional drive-by shooting, and an underfunded, dirty transit system. But that’s not the kind of “world class” I want to be. [/QUOTE] That sounds a lot like where Calgary is going. Don’t forget the gang violence, ubiquitous grow-ops, and expecting your car to be broken into and/or stolen regularly. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/31 "2007-02-07T15:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] I could also argue that Calgary is developing into a real crappy place to live. I’ll give it a couple of years; it could turn into a real hellhole. [/QUOTE] No way - Calgary doesn’t hold a candle to Winnipeg in terms of overall crappyness. I mean, I have no love for Calgary, but at least the economy is doing well. Winnipeg has all the prairie city “charm”, high crime, racial tension, and a pretty crap economy to boot. I don’t know ANYONE who likes Winnipeg, and that includes my entire family all of whom have either lived there in the past, or live there currently. Calgary would have to deteriorate by an EXTREME amount to even come close to Winnipeg’s suckyness. In terms of smaller towns, Prince George, BC is pretty shitty. The new university has helped a little, but it’s still mostly a town of lumber jockeys that drink too much, get in fights and kill each other. ---
**Author:** ![Queuing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/90ced4/32.png) [@Queuing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queuing)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/32 "2007-02-07T16:01:23Z")
[QUOTE=fishbicycle] I was born in Hamilton. It’s the pits. It has horrendous air pollution from the steel mills and foundries and cars. If you hang your laundry outside, it comes back with black flecks on it. There’s a limited job market. Stores downtown have been boarded up for two decades. It’s a big place with lots of amenities, and the scenery is beautiful from the escarpment. But having lived there for many years, and having lived elsewhere, I can say that I’d never move back. [/QUOTE] I lived in Hamilton for 5 years (went to McMaster), and while the east end is a hole, on the whole the 'shwa is worse. Hamilton at least has Hess Village (also mentioned above, and its like 10-12 bars, 3 of which are clubs where you have to 23+ now which is nice), the Royal Botanical Gardens (ok, those might technically be in Burlington) and Westdale which is a quaint place, not to mention the Mountain which is also ok, in a suburbia sense. Really except for the Downtown, which while getting better is still awful and the East end, Hamilton can barely be compared to Oshawa. The McLaughlin Art Gallery and Library (right by City Hall, which is ok I suppose) is nice, sort of. But that is it. There is NO night life to speak of (unless just getting drunk and fighting counts), there are no “quaint” areas of Oshawa, and the vast majority of it looks and feels like the East End of Hamilton (without the extreme dirt from the steel mills admittedly). I have lived in Oshawa for 3 years but next to it for 11 years (Whitby), and spent 5 or so in Hamilton. Oshawa easily wins this competition. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/33 "2007-02-07T16:16:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] So yeah, we grew up and are “world class”, ifr by that you mean that we have lots of beggars, sky-high rent, the occasional drive-by shooting, and an underfunded, dirty transit system. But that’s not the kind of “world class” I want to be. [/QUOTE] Has anyone used the “world class” line lately? I haven’t heard that in years. Toronto started becoming a world class city around the day people stopped saying that (1996, I think.) The city does have its problems; the city government is just awful, even by the dismal standards of municipal government, and the mayor spends all his time begging for money while jacking up spending. It’s pathetic. Having said that, you don’t like the crime? Toronto has a lower murder rate than Edmonton, Winnipeg, or Vancouver, or most Western cities, for that matter. (Quebec cities are invariably the lowest.) You are SIX TIMES likelier to have your car stolen in Winnipeg than Toronto, two to three times likelier to be murdered, twice as likely to be robbed, two and a half times likelier to have your house broken into and three times likelier to be the victim of any other criminal offense. And the numbers are even worse in Regina and Saskatoon. Toronto has a lot of problems to be sure - terrible, embarassing government, bad traffic, the Maple Leafs - but by any standard the crime rates are _amazingly_ low. It has crime rates as low as almost any city of any signficant size in Canada, and much, much lower than many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/34 "2007-02-07T16:28:45Z")
Look, I think we’ve all established that Winnipeg is teh suck, saying your city has a lower murder rate than Winnipeg, the organized crime capital of Canada, isn’t saying much. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/35 "2007-02-07T16:30:55Z")
WOW, lot’s of hate on for Winnipeg. I have lived here all of my life and travelled a lot. It isn’t that bad, we have our problems, but I don’t think we would be considered “the worst”. There are still places like Regina to be considered. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/36 "2007-02-07T16:34:15Z")
> [@](#): > > WOW, lot’s of hate on for Winnipeg. …and all from either current or former residents of Calgary, for some reason… ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/37 "2007-02-07T16:34:46Z")
I notice no-one has mentioned Vancouver in this thread yet… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/38 "2007-02-07T16:52:37Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Toronto is more the city other Canadians love to hate. Living there actually ain’t bad. Really, who cares about lame-ass advertising campaigns? Civic boosterism is _always_ embarrasing. [/QUOTE] I lived there for many, many years, and I also noticed the problem **Sunspace** spoke of. At one time, Toronto was happy just to be Toronto (or at least, Not Montreal). Then it decided it was “world class.” And that led to Toronto’s problems. I well remember the civic debates and the “if we only had \_\_\_\_\_, we’d be world class for sure” arguments. You can fill in the blank with the large project or thing of your choice: an opera house, a new arena for the Leafs, less traffic in the downtown, more high-end retailers to squeeze out those silly little neighbourhood shops. After each objective was achieved (or not, leading to endless squabbling between interests both inside and outside of City Hall), Toronto still wasn’t happy because \_\_\_\_\_ wasn’t as good as New York’s. Or Montreal had more of it. Or Vancouver, Chicago, or London would have done it differently and undoubtedly better. It seemed to me to be cyclical: the more Toronto asserted it was “world class,” the more it had to prove it in some way, which was ultimately not good enough when compared to other cities, which meant to soothe its ego, Toronto again had to tell itself it was “world class,” and so on, over and over. IMHO, it wasn’t _just_ civic boosterism that dragged Toronto down. It was civic boosterism coupled with a constant comparison to places that Toronto wished to be. In other words, it wasn’t happy being Toronto; as **Sunspace** notes, at some point–and the mid-80s, as he suggests, is as good a point as any–it started wanting to be someplace else. I don’t think Toronto is the worst place in Canada though. I still get back to visit from time to time, and I always look forward to going. There have been many changes; some of which I am glad to see, and some of which I’m not–but overall, things seem to be improving on the comparison front. Perhaps Toronto is finding that being Toronto isn’t so bad after all. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/39 "2007-02-07T16:52:57Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Look, I think we’ve all established that Winnipeg is teh suck, saying your city has a lower murder rate than Winnipeg, the organized crime capital of Canada, isn’t saying much. 😛 [/QUOTE] Actually, the numbers would seem to hit Regina. I’ve only been there once, though. It looked pretty awful but I didn’t see much of it so I was giving it a pass. By the way, I’ve never lived in Calgary. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123/40 "2007-02-07T16:55:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] I notice no-one has mentioned Vancouver in this thread yet… 🙂 [/QUOTE] Because if you are rich and it isn’t raining, Vancouver is a great place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-town-city-in-canada/391123.md?page=3)