# Worst US major sports franchise, recent decades **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 19, 2014, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049 "2014-03-19T01:26:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/61 "2014-03-22T15:29:37Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > The Yankees and Dodgers of the early '60s are not good comps since they’d won WS championships in their recent past. But when I got to college in the early 70s I was curious if my perception was slanted, (because of my youth when the Sox won the pennant in '67) and searched out fans of the White Sox (WS losers in '59) the Reds (losers in '61) and their memories of their reactions were similar to mine. No, read my post again; I chose the Dodgers and the Yankees precisely BECAUSE they’d won the WS earlier. It doesn’t surprise me at all that your White Sox and Reds fan people remembered '59 and '61 fondly, because those years were much more like Boston '67–a team unexpectedly winning a pennant and then falling in the World Series. Bill James referred to the Reds of that year as a Miracle Team as deserving of the phrase as the Red Sox of '67, and older White Sox fans in Chicago still reminisce happily about the Go-Go Sox of '59. My point is that this perception was not shared by fans of every team. For teams that’d been there before, even in the days before divisional play, winning the pennant wasn’t enough. And for some that hadn’t been there before, winning the pennant back in those days wasn’t always enough either. Check out this famous Peanuts strip, by Giants fan Charles Schulz, in the wake of his team’s oh-so-close loss to the Yankees in '62 (this by the way is the second of two): [Peanuts by Charles Schulz for January 28, 1963 - GoComics](http://www.gocomics.com/peanuts/1963/01/28#.Uy2ryYUyCSo) And as my examples and **RickJay** ’s examples demonstrate, for fans of some teams, just making the playoffs or making it to the World Series even today is a wonderful achievement, while for others it isn’t. It all depends on expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/62 "2014-03-22T15:48:53Z")
> [@Bellhorn](#): > > The 2004 Red Sox tried to build a team that would be successful in the playoffs, rather than be dominant in the regular season. You know, I see this sort of comment with regard to not just Boston, but lots of other baseball teams, and I’m always a little at a loss when I try to figure out what that means. The main difference between the regular season and the playoffs has to do with the number of starting pitchers you need these days: you don’t really need 5 starters in the postseason, so I guess that means that you build to include just 3-4 steady starting pitchers instead of trying to have 5. But of course the '04 Red Sox were noted for having five pitchers who started nearly every game of the regular season between them, and used all five as starters in the postseason; so that doesn’t seem to be it. And I suppose we could talk about assembling a bunch of “clutch hitters,” but it’s hard to demonstrate who exactly that is, so… Obviously, getting Schilling helped, but he was dominant in the regular season as well, so… I know this is off topic for the thread, and I’m not trying to be snarky, but I’d love to know how in your opinion the '04 Red Sox were put together to be successful specifically in the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/63 "2014-03-22T16:05:00Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > … > > And as my examples and **RickJay** ’s examples demonstrate, for fans of some teams, just making the playoffs or making it to the World Series even today is a wonderful achievement, while for others it isn’t. It all depends on expectations. I think you’re missing my point. I steered this discussion of “worst team” towards the idea of “team droughts” and that with so many teams going 0 for 30 or even 0 for 50 in world championships was inevitable given the fact that big market teams were going to get more than their share of World championships. But my point was that in baseball, before the playoff tier, winning a pennant was often enough to diminish the drought, because winning a pennant used to be a major achievement attained over a 162/154 game season, whereas today it just means you played well for a couple of weeks. As a kid, I don’t remember any “1918” wails or any mention of “0-for-49” droughts, it was more of not winning a pennant since 1946. In Cleveland, this year, the Indians’ fans are not placated by the fact they won a pennant in 1995 and 1997, it’s that they haven’t won it all since 1948. Winning a pennant meant more when it was earned over 162/154 games, even though you only had to be the best of 8, and then 10 teams to make the WS, whereas today you have to be the best of 15 teams. And it may be a generational thing. As I mentioned in the NCAA thread, I find March Madness to be a bunch of crap. It’s as exciting as rubbing a coin over a scratch ticket, and, I’m not sure that winning 6 straight one-and-done games really determines the best basketball team. But hype is hype and it thrills fans in the meantime, but I just wonder how long it can sustain a fan base of a team that doesn’t win it all. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/64 "2014-03-24T19:58:48Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > For college football, it would have to be the **Indiana Hoosiers**. > > They are a large state school in a major conference with tons of bowl and TV revenue. One Rose Bowl appearance in the 60s That’s more than California has had in that period (last Rose Bowl appearance: 1959), even though they have ended the season in the top 10 twice. Both times, the team that won the Pac-8/10/12 conference won at least a share of the national championship. > [@zamboniracer](#): > > honorable mention- NHL Barons, who lasted 2 seasons in the 1970s before they merged with the North Stars. And don’t forget their “predecessors”, the California Seals / Oakland Seals / California Golden Seals; I don’t think they ever made the playoffs. Probably best known for two things; white skates, and Crazy George. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/65 "2014-03-26T00:02:59Z")
Lots of candidates: the Detroit Lions (no league championships and only ONE playoff win since the 1950s). The Cleveland Browns (once a dominant team - haven’t done much of note since the AFL/NFL merger). The L.A. Clippers (although they appear to be on the upswing). I’ll give you MY candidate: the Seattle Muh-REEE-nurrs. This is their 38th season coming up in a few days and they are now one of only TWO MLB teams to have never even made an appearance in the World Series. 2001 - tied the ALL-TIME MLB record for wins in a (regular) season but then lost in the ALCS to (who else?) the Yankees. Outside of their time under Lou Piniella they really haven’t done much of note. Can you name a more deserving candidate? ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/66 "2014-03-26T00:05:42Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The Lions haven’t won a post season game since 1957. The last time they routinely made the playoffs was in the mid '90s, when they had Barry Sanders. A player who retired at the age of 30, because the team refused to trade him. He retired and gave up millions of dollars rather than play another season for the Lions. Not true. The Lions haven’t won a _league championship_ since the 1950s. They do have that ONE playoff win since then - over the Dallas Cowpies in the 1991 playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/67 "2014-03-26T00:08:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s hard to argue with the Lions in the NFL, though even they did not deserve the utterly classless way that Sanders left them. If you’re going to retire, fucking say so and don’t leave your team wondering what your intentions are. > > In hockey, I’d say the Leafs and the Islanders. Toronto has a huge advantage in fan base and that so many Canadian kids want to play for them. Great city, great tradition, but so little success. The Isles went from being a dominant team in the 1980s to nothing today. > > In baseball, perhaps the Astros or Mariners. The Astros have been around as long as the Mets and have only one WS appearance to show for it, the M’s are still waiting for theirs. Yup. And in a poll question listed in _The Seattle Times_ a year, or so, ago, people were asked which of the two MLB teams that have yet to make it to a World Series - the Muh-REEE-nurrs or the (now) Washington Whatevers - would be the LAST one to make an appearance even Seattle residents couldn’t help but pick the Muh-REEE-nurrs, overwhelmingly. Shows you how much faith the locals have in that train wreck of an “organization.” ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/68 "2014-03-26T00:15:49Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > For college football, it would have to be the **Indiana Hoosiers**. > > They are a large state school in a major conference with tons of bowl and TV revenue. One Rose Bowl appearance in the 60s and then one bowl in the last 20 years (keep in mind that the Big Ten usually sends 7 or 8 teams bowling since then). > > True, they are a basketball school, but Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Duke have all been to bowl games, sometimes even BCS-level. > > Even primarily academic schools have been bowling more recently than Indiana: Duke, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt. And these smaller schools compete in large football conferences. > > Why hasn’t Indiana? You’re right. When I was growing up (I live - and have lived most of my life - in Pac-8/10/12 country) I thought the absolute WORST college football team was the Northwestern “Mildcats.” Don’t think that was much of a stretch given the LOOOOOONG losing streak the “Mildcats” went through in the early '80s. Came to find out that the ONE (traditional) B1G team that the “Mildcats” have the all-time head-to-head edge on is…the Indiana Hoosiers!! The guys from Bloomington must’ve sold their football souls in order to obtain basketball success (or something). ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/69 "2014-03-26T16:54:03Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The Lions haven’t won a post season game since 1957. The last time they routinely made the playoffs was in the mid '90s, when they had Barry Sanders. A player who retired at the age of 30, because the team refused to trade him. He retired and gave up millions of dollars rather than play another season for the Lions. The Lions won a post season game in 1991, but that’s it, basically. Then again they have only been to the playoffs 9 times since 1957. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/70 "2014-03-27T14:47:07Z")
**Forbes Magazine** has just published their annual _Business of Baseball_ survey complete with estimates of valuation for all 30 teams. [The Business of Baseball.](http://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/) The valuation approximates the current resale price if one of these teams should go on the market, and is based on 4 factors: Revenue Sharing, Market, Stadium equity and Brand. Not surprisingly, the Yankees have the highest valuation at $2.5 billion, with the Dodgers second and the Red Sox third at $1.5 billion. Since Forbes began the estimates in 2003, the Yankees have nearly tripled in value, while the Red Sox valuation has nearly quadrupled. The reason for the growth has been the increase in regional television revenues. Not included, (I think) are the valuation of the equity percentages that some teams might hold in their regional tv networks. The Red Sox, for instance, only receive $60 mil per year from their tv network NESN, but they also own 80% of NESN, and thus receive profits on the back end. The Dodgers receive $250 mil per year in regional tv rights, but have a 25% share in the profits, as well. At the low end, the Rays receive $20 mil per year, with no equity stake. MLB revenue sharing only shares the tv rights fees, and not the equity. The most recent breakdown of television contracts/revenue is from Fangraphs in Dec 2012: [MLB regional television revenue estimates.](http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dodgers-send-shock-waves-through-local-tv-landscape/) As you can see, there is a huge disparity in team valuations, which is primarily based on the revenue from their regional tv deals. It’s hard to see how the Tampa Bay Rays survive in their present location. They are showing a net profit on operations, but that’s by virtue of a low payroll and winning 90+ games per year since 2008. A playoff drought would erase that profit. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/71 "2014-03-27T20:50:37Z")
The MOST valuable team is worth 5X the LEAST valuable! I saw a list like that for all 4 leagues: the MOST valuable NHL team was worth less than the MOST valuable NFL team! ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/72 "2014-03-28T00:17:39Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > The MOST valuable team is worth 5X the LEAST valuable! …! That’s pretty much the same ratio that existed when _ **Forbes** _ first began to publish these estimates in 2003. Since then, the average valuation has increased about 300%. The worst performer (in terms of %) have been the Mets, who failed to double in value, and dropped from #2 to #9. The biggest % change in valuation belongs to the Washington Nats who are now valued at $790, or 7 times what their predecessor-Expos were valued at in 2003. So that gives a boost to my contention that they ought to let small market teams move to bigger markets, even if an established team is already there. (Baltimore) The teams that have landed the most lucrative regional tv contracts have moved up the most, but the increased revenue sharing(from these contracts) has enriched the smaller markets. The last 11 years have been very profitable for all of baseball, and that has helped with some sense of competitive balance, but if a recession should hit sport, in general, and baseball, in particular, I would expect the smaller markets to suffer near-fatal consequences, while the richer market-teams will easily weather a down period of even a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/73 "2014-03-28T17:34:53Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Are the Cubbies so loveable _ **because** _ they haven’t won in over 100 years? I grew up a Cubsfan in Chicago. I don’t find them loveable anymore and I don’t waste my energy following them after the gigantic collapse’s in the post seasons of the 00’s. They suck ass every single year and other than those regular season runs in the 00’s they are the most boring team in baseball, as they pretty much lay down after mid June and stay out of any serious contention for the rest of the incredibly long baseball season. I’m 37 and moved to DC in 08 and kind of migrated to the Nats, who are much more entertaining. I’m only a Cubsfan by name anymore. I should get my username changed now that I think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bellhorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Bellhorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bellhorn)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/74 "2014-03-28T18:24:09Z")
Don’t give up on the Cubs. All signs point to them being a very successful franchise in a year or two. Excellent financial resources, loyal fan base, a current payroll few dollars committed to big contracts for older players, and a system loaded with prospects from top to bottom. Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer have done an excellent job in cleaning out the deadwood. A World Series championship is always impossible to guarantee because the Cardinals might be in the midst of a long run, but keep the faith, because the Cubs are poised to be a playoff team for at least a half-dozen years. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049/75 "2014-03-29T04:20:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > In hockey, I’d say the Leafs and the Islanders. Toronto has a huge advantage in fan base and that so many Canadian kids want to play for them. I missed this before, but… how is it an advantage that Canadian kids allegedly want to play for the Leafs? The NHL, like the other major sports, has a draft system. Young players are as likely to end up with Tampa Bay as they are with Toronto, no matter where they are born. Nor can the Leafs stockpile Canadian players later in their careers, since the league has a salary cap and, in any event, all evidence suggest Canadian players really don’t much care which country they play in as long as they get the money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worst-us-major-sports-franchise-recent-decades/684049.md?page=3)