# Worthless shithead New Orleans looters. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379 "2005-08-31T02:46:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/301 "2005-09-01T15:30:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Most of us at one time or another have been desperate, confused, tired and frustrated…We did not steal and would not UNLESS our lives DEPENDED on it. well, **madsam** , I certainly haven’t been in a situation even remotely paralleling what’s taking place in New Orleans… perhaps you or others have, but not me. I think many people are stealing because their lives, and the lives of their loved ones, DEPEND on it. Are there random assholes stealing for the sake of stealing? Yep. Is it accurate to devote so much media attention to this phenomenon? I don’t know. As many have noted, there isn’t much coverage of the people in the communities who are trying to help neighbors, family members, and strangers. But I suppose they don’t exist because we don’t see them, right? I have a radical idea as to why some people might be involved in the looting. I used to work, and live near the Kelly Projects in Fifth Ward, Houston. In many ways parts of these projects are no-law zones, because the police don’t have adequate coverage or community involvement. So there is a state of de facto law, where those who have more muscle and guns do as they please, and those that dare to challenge them. There’s an economy that works based entirely on bartering, because there is not a lot of money floating around. Perhaps some people are looting because they think they might be able to barter for goods they need, like water and food. As several folks have pointed out, a plasma screen isn’t going to be of much use as there is no electricity, most people don’t have homes left, etc. This doesn’t make looting acceptable or okay - but it is an alternate explanation for what is happening. Imagine this being the normal state of affairs, and compound it with the pressures of this natural disaster. Guns are being stolen? Well, if you know people in your neighborhood were armed and dangerous before the hurricane and flood, what do you expect to happen once any semblance of order evaporates? You might consider getting a weapon to protect yourself and your family. At some point we will have to consider the culpability of governmental officials for not enacting a better evacuation plan with contingencies for the poorest of the poor. A voluntary evacuation will be heeded by those who have cable TV and can track the progress of the storm, and have the resources (like a large car or money for a ticket out of town) to go elsewhere. From all I’ve heard, a breach of the levee was likely. Why wasn’t there a plan to evacuate those in the inner city projects, realizing that a flood, and looting, were both likely? It happened in Sri Lanka after the tsunami. Of course, there are idiots who are stealing for the sake of stealing. But I instinctively distrust media coverage and anecdotal reports of lawlessness. If it’s that dangerous, why do CBS, NBC, CNN, etc. have reporters in the middle of downtown at 3 a.m. reporting on the lawlessness? I don’t recall reporters roaming the streets of Baghdad outside of the Green Zone… because it is truly dangerous and lawless. Don’t get me wrong; I don’t think it’s safe in NO, but “if it bleeds it leads.” ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/302 "2005-09-01T15:33:59Z")
:: whistles :: FWEEEEEEET! YEAH, GIRL!! Tell 'im! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/303 "2005-09-01T15:37:03Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > How many times are we as a nation, going to do this dance; before we learn the steps? **holmes** , that is a great question. Sincerely. I would be very interested in what I personally could do to learn the steps. Email me if you are interested in a dialogue. If that is not to your liking, perhaps I could open an IMHO thread. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/304 "2005-09-01T16:11:58Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > **holmes** , that is a great question. Sincerely. I would be very interested in what I personally could do to learn the steps. Email me if you are interested in a dialogue. If that is not to your liking, perhaps I could open an IMHO thread. Sure open an IMHO and I’ll drop by for as long as I can stand it. Nothing against you, but I find threads about social issues concerning race, gender, and sexual preferrences to get very depressing and ugly quite quickly and people start pissing me off. Since I really shouldn’t care that much about what people here think, I usually try to bail before it reaches that point, you know? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/305 "2005-09-01T16:17:34Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > That’s the deal. People who are attempting to focus on doing the more “constructive things” are being thwarted by those shooting at them. Yeah, but what is all the raving and screaming for blood going to do to help the needy? That’s the question. Outsiders like you and me can’t do anything to stop the shooters and looters, but we _can_ do something to help the victims. All this talk about things that are out of our control gets our minds off _doing something_. And that’s why I hate the media right now. When last year’s tsunamis hit, the media did an excellent job of moving people to help. Looking at all those images of wounded and heart-broken people who had their lives destroyed by an act of nature compelled me to open my pockets and donate money. Others saw the same images and were compelled to actually go over there and donate time and labor. The best of human nature came out, in part because the media encouraged us to turn away from cynicism and feel compassion for our suffering brethren. They didn’t dwell on looters, on child prostitution, on all the other ugly sequela that usually accompanies natural disasters. They focused on humanity. This go around all I see is ugly. Outsiders are not compelled to help because all they want to talk about is “them”. “Them” who are shooting, “them” who are looting, “them” who deserve to be shot to teach the other “them” a lesson, “them” who should have left town, “them” who should have known better fa lesson from Camille. So I ask: what is all this harping on the shooters and looters going to accomplish? Are people _really_ concerned about the victims of Katrina, or are they just getting off on being mad about forces out of their control? And **holmes**? GODDAMN that was an excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/306 "2005-09-01T16:22:43Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Everybody can just fuck off with their legal cites. For one thing. I’m talking about moral rights, … > > _snip_ > You want to know what book? Check your fucking Bible. like Romans:13? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/307 "2005-09-01T16:26:09Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > , but damnit, this country has a history of armed response towards African-Americans, and that needs to addressed before you start opening up on them. This country has a history of armed response toward everyone, black, white, latino or asian. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/308 "2005-09-01T16:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **holmes** > … but damnit, this country has a history of armed response towards African-Americans, and that needs to addressed before you start opening up on them. Say what? No … no way. Get order restored first … then worry about niceties and PC. _(Not advocating “opening up” willy-nilly on lawful civilians. Just to be clear.)_ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/309 "2005-09-01T16:41:31Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > like Romans:13? I’m not a theist so the Bible doesn’t apply to me. I was only citing it for a person I know is a Christian and I was obviously being facetious. For those who DO believe the Bible is authoritative. It tells them not to murder. It also tells them that punishment is supposed to be measured. It’s an eye for an eye, not an eye for an iPod. ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/310 "2005-09-01T16:45:25Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I lived in New Orleans, love the city, and know it well. New Orleans has always had that lawless underclass that is ready to explode into anarchy given the opportunity. Even when things were normal, you could see things happening from them that you don’t see in normal cities. Um, what are you talking about? I’ve been in and around New Orleans a good deal, and I don’t remember seeing anything there that hasn’t occurred in my “normal” city. 2 AM drug deals out in the open? Check. Police chases, complete with flying bullets from both sides? Check. People shooting people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Check. And shit, my city’s about 1/10th the size of New Orleans, if that. So I don’t buy NO being somehow majorly different from other cities. There are always opportunistic motherfuckers, and they are everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/311 "2005-09-01T16:55:01Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > This country has a history of armed response toward everyone, black, white, latino or asian. And? Your point is because at some point in time, the country’s treated different groups badly, our leaders and media shouldn’t take the time to inform the public of what’s going on in New Orleans NOW? Because the Japanese were treated badly, we shouldn’t do that? That the public shouldn’t be reassured that any show of force isn’t happening because they’re black and of lesser value, but because this SMALL group of people are a threat against other black people, you know the ones we don’t seem to be seeing on the news helping one another. Because the Irish were treated badly, we shouldn’t do that? That any use of lethal force will be limited to those who are using violence to hamper the humanitarian efforts and not any random person with a box under their arm? Because the Italians were treated badly, we shouldn’t do that? or the Native Americans or the Jews, or Chinese… It is wrong to do those things, because we realize that some people might remember the times when law enforcement did randomly shoot, beat and harrass black people, all in front the cameras and maybe by reassuring people that this isn’t an attack against black people AND that the majority of black people in New Orleans aren’t “animals”, we may actually stand a chance of containing this mess in New Orleans? Unless you want those guys who make a living by dealing in racial conflct in front of the camera, holding the picture of a dead honor student, shot in back, because he couldn’t hear the order to stop…with a bottle of orange pop in his hand and the excuse for some, the same “some” that are in New Orleans now, to spread into your neighbourhood. An ounce of prevention… ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/312 "2005-09-01T16:59:19Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > That the public shouldn’t be reassured that any show of force isn’t happening because they’re black and of lesser value, but because this SMALL group of people are a threat against other black people, you know the ones we don’t seem to be seeing on the news helping one another. This really needs to explicitly stated? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/313 "2005-09-01T17:03:26Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > OK then. I was simply disagreeing with you and asking for your solution to the problem. No need to call me names. If my tone seemed hostile, or somehow caused you aggravation, I apologize. Having said that, I am unclear what your response actually means, as it seems to mirror my question. I was mirroring your statement, but substituting trespass in for looting, because you are linking a less serious crime (looting) with “firing upon rescue workers.” As I have tried to make clear above, using the term “looters” to refer to a group of people who are not (at that time) looting is a bit of a dodge. I don’t advocate shooting people who are looting. I have no objection to preventing a rescue worker from being hurt by shooting the person who is shooting at them. The “pinko” reference was not really name calling (towards you), but was unfair to you nonetheless. I was referring to those posters who are suggesting that because I don’t want to shoot people for stealing, I must want to give them Twinkies or counseling. “Pinko,” if you are unfamiliar with the term, is an old time epithet that folks very much like some of those here used to use to smear liberals. I apologize for having caused you offense with it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/314 "2005-09-01T17:03:45Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Sure open an IMHO and I’ll drop by for as long as I can stand it. Nothing against you, but I find threads about social issues concerning race, gender, and sexual preferrences to get very depressing and ugly quite quickly and people start pissing me off. Since I really shouldn’t care that much about what people here think, I usually try to bail before it reaches that point, you know? It seemed more like a [Great Debate.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6532780#post6532780) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/315 "2005-09-01T17:04:47Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > It’s an eye for an eye, not an eye for an iPod. A phrase nicely turned, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/316 "2005-09-01T17:09:29Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > This really needs to explicitly stated? Really? Yes, I think it does…cause the venom I’m getting covered with (not here) doesn’t make that distinction. Again, what’s the harm, if someone does state it? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/317 "2005-09-01T17:12:32Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I was mirroring your statement, but substituting trespass in for looting, because you are linking a less serious crime (looting) with “firing upon rescue workers.” As I have tried to make clear above, using the term “looters” to refer to a group of people who are not (at that time) looting is a bit of a dodge. I don’t advocate shooting people who are looting. I have no objection to preventing a rescue worker from being hurt by shooting the person who is shooting at them. > > The “pinko” reference was not really name calling (towards you), but was unfair to you nonetheless. I was referring to those posters who are suggesting that because I don’t want to shoot people for stealing, I must want to give them Twinkies or counseling. “Pinko,” if you are unfamiliar with the term, is an old time epithet that folks very much like some of those here used to use to smear liberals. > > I apologize for having caused you offense with it. Hell yeah I know what a pinko is. [I used to be one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6532780#post6532780) I take your point about looting being different from shooting at rescue workers. I do believe that the looting exacerbates the situation, and that in the madhouse that is New Orleans right now the line between “person stealing a plasma TV” and “person stealing a weapon” and “person being a potential threat to others” is a mighty fine one. Apology accepted, although not really necessary. I just wanted you to know I meant no ill will toward you, in a thread that already has ill will in abundance. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/318 "2005-09-01T17:28:50Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > The “pinko” reference was not really name calling (towards you), but was unfair to you nonetheless. I was referring to those posters who are suggesting that because I don’t want to shoot people for stealing, I must want to give them Twinkies or counseling. “Pinko,” if you are unfamiliar with the term, is an old time epithet that folks very much like some of those here used to use to smear liberals. I brought the Twinkies up, pinko. And once again, it was in reference to placating the people shooting at rescue helicopters, nothing was said about shooting people for stealing. > [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Well, it would appear that the Katrina survivers who are not shooting can’t be rescued because of the Katrina survivors who are shooting. > > One way to help those who are not shooting would be to stop the ones who are shooting from shooting. > > Any suggestions? Offer them a Twinkie and a Pepsi? See anything in there about shooting people for stealing? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/319 "2005-09-01T17:29:12Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Yes, I think it does…cause the venom I’m getting covered with (not here) doesn’t make that distinction. > > Again, what’s the harm, if someone does state it? No harm, I don’t guess. Someone will surely state it to national media. But how to get that info to people stranded in N.O.? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/320 "2005-09-01T17:31:26Z")
Well, first they turn to the “radio” settings on their stolen stereo systems, see, and… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379.md?page=17)