# Worthless shithead New Orleans looters. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 31, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379 "2005-08-31T02:46:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/161 "2005-08-31T22:41:04Z")
> [@Jurhael](#): > > Am I the only one who sees a difference between looting a store and looting a home? > > One of my biggest fears in the aftermath of Ivan was looters and it’s generally well-known that I don’t care for them, but believe me, I wouldn’t have been as concerned for stores as I would have been for homes. However, if I were not in the home, then there’s probably no way of knowing if loss of stuff was due to the storm or looters. I guess I’m just more concerned with myself rather than my stuff. > That being said, I saw on TV cops keep order by helping people just go ahead and take essentials from stores. One of the cops made it clear that, “You do what you have to do to survive.” I seriously doubt these cops are letting people in other people’s homes. Private property that isn’t yours is private property that isn’t yours. What difference does it make if it’s a homeowner or a store-owner? Besides, it’s not the looters that the cops are “letting” loot that worries me. It’s the looters who cleaned out the gun department at the local Wal-Mart, or the ones who stormed the children’s hospital and raided the drugs. You really think the cops are “letting” that kind of thing happen? ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/162 "2005-08-31T22:59:25Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > All right then. That’s it. The argument is over. We don’t waste time and resources chasing looters. And which argument would this be? Let me just be clear – your point is that Search and Rescue should be priority #1? Is this correct? I totally agree. In fact, I would go so far as to make this blanket statement: – Immediately following **any** natural disaster, whether it be tsunami, flood, hurricane, earthquake, tornado, or otherwise… search and rescue should be priority #1. Now could you point out for me who is arguing against that? I don’t recall seeing anybody in this thread saying that looters should be the authorities’ #1 priority, although I may have skimmed over a post or two. > [@](#): > > The point is that you CAN’T do both. They don’t have the resources. The authorities in NO are SAYING they don’t have the resources. I didn’t say that they currently had the resources to handle both. I said that some people have argued that both are **important**. There is a difference between _importance_ and _feasability_. Unfortunately, in a disaster like this, authorities usually have limited resources to work with right after the storm, until more help can be mobilized. When more help comes, there are some issues that will need attention besides S&R. > [@](#): > > My position is not that it’s morally ok, but that it’s morally negligible because I don’t believe it’s causing any extra harm beyond what’s already happened. Well, that’s where I have to disagree. I don’t find the looting morally negligible at all. Perhaps its longer term effects are not as immediately visible as people who are trapped in houses, but that doesn’t automatically equate to negligible. And it doesn’t mean that the looters are not shitheads of the worst caliber (as the OP asserts). > [@](#): > > Ooohh…you got me on the jewelry…you win the internets!!!11 ::: shrug ::: It was no more contrived or anecdotal an example than your save-the-baby-or-the-frozen-turkey scenario. In one of the articles the OP linked, jewelry was among the first items mentioned that were looted. I have yet to read about a rescuer who was faced with saving a baby or a frozen turkey, but if you have a link… > [@](#): > > I’m sure the jewelry is insured, but if it makes you happy, I’ll admit that it’s wrong to steal the jewelry. But it’s still not something anyone deserves to be killed for Please point out where I said that people should be killed for it. * * * So why don’t I feel that it’s morally negligible? I see the looting as a subset of a larger issue, which is the lack of any order among the able-bodied survivors (i.e. the ones that aren’t awaiting rescue). I feel that’s important – even IF it is not yet managable with current resources – because it’s all too likely to escalate into violence. Someone on CNN just said that many of the looters are now armed – I think a lot of the arms looted from a gun store. What do you think this will lead to? What will the armed looters do when the stores have been rifled clean? I suspect they will start going for houses. What about when their food runs out, or they decide to hoard it for themselves and are able to because they have guns? Whose food will they take? Perhaps that of the unarmed residents? Leave it unattended too long and the strong will be preying on the weak. And meanwhile, these people who are healthy enough to loot stores and “get back at society” are certainly healthy enough to pitch in with search and rescue attempts, if they had a little more concern for their fellow man. Sure, it’s not their **job** help with recovery attempts, but if they are just playing the “what can I take from somebody else when nobody can stop me” game, while others are in more desperate need, then they **are** worthless shitheads, as suggested by the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/163 "2005-08-31T23:19:08Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I’ve just been watching the news – I’m hearing things like: “Power won’t be restored for two or three months.” “This is the largest mobilized disaster relief effort the U.S. has ever faced.” “The death toll is expected to reach thousands and may not be known for weeks.” > > I still can’t believe the OP was decrying looting and demonizing the looters in the face of such overwhelming loss. I wonder how many of those lives might be saved if, instead of looting, the able-bodied citizens pitched in with rescue efforts? or cooperated with authorities, perhaps helping to fairly distribute food (yes, salvaged from stores – I do believe that authorities can commandeer it in a crisis like this?) and helping with evacuation efforts, either getting out of the city themselves, or helping those less able to do so more quickly. And now I also wonder what will be the effect on the death toll with the current situation – armed looters stealing and operating on the principle “every man for himself”. The way I see it, the looters are doing nothing to **help** the situation. And very likely they are going to be **hindering** the recovery work, perhaps even helping to add to the death toll. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/164 "2005-08-31T23:40:47Z")
If the looting persists, perhaps. We have not SEEN any footage of so-called armed looters to my knowledge. Of course, you can’t have it both ways: city authorities allowing looting are doing much of the hindering in recovery efforts all by themselves. Nobody can do much recovery until flood waters recede. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/165 "2005-09-01T00:17:07Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And sometimes those two groups are indistiguishable. [In this MSNBC video](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9120777/)) (click on “After the deluge, the looters”), two black policewomen were filmed looting the local Walmart. Any chance they’ll be prosecuted or at least fired for this? When the disaster is over, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/166 "2005-09-01T00:26:02Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Any chance they’ll be prosecuted or at least fired for this? When the disaster is over, of course. All we saw were two overweight women in uniforms standing by two shopping carts. If they were looting, they weren’t in the process of taking them out of the store or putting the carts in their vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![BabaBooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dfb087/32.png) [@BabaBooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BabaBooey)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/167 "2005-09-01T00:44:42Z")
Fantastic logic DtC, I always value the opinion of a person who prefers looters to picky eaters. However, Mayor Ray Nagin doesn’t agree with you and has ordered 1500 police officers to stop search and rescue missions and begin putting down the mobs of looters who are getting more violent and spreading further towards the outside of the city. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/168 "2005-09-01T00:49:14Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > city authorities allowing looting are doing much of the hindering in recovery efforts all by themselves. yep > [@](#): > > Nobody can do much recovery until flood waters recede. Well, I was including the saving of human lives in that – not just recovery of property. But I think citizens will be of most help by either (1) assisting with search and rescue, if authorities will allow them to, or (2) evacuating and getting out of the city so that authorities can do their jobs without hindrance. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/169 "2005-09-01T00:51:53Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > With martial law in effect can the police/National Guard _shoot_ looters? I can only dream. Can you imagine the money that society would save with a few well-placed bullets? The savings in the judicial and social services sector alone would be mind-boggling. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/170 "2005-09-01T00:53:45Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I can only dream. Can you imagine the money that society would save with a few well-placed bullets? The savings in the judicial and social services sector alone would be mind-boggling. That’s one of the more unpleasant posts I’ve seen on the SDMB. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/171 "2005-09-01T00:56:02Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I can only dream. Can you imagine the money that society would save with a few well-placed bullets? The savings in the judicial and social services sector alone would be mind-boggling. Can you imagine the hell you’d unleashed firing on desperate homeless people, some of whom are recent armed? Can you imagine what a stray bullet hitting some six year old kid would do? You’re talking about killing over SALVAGED STUFF in a drowned city. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/172 "2005-09-01T01:02:35Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > [In which black people “loot” and white people “find bread”](http://www.livejournal.com/community/blackfolk/2420240.html) Care to wager on the comparative racial percentage of the looters, Matt? People getting defensive about the cutline of a photograph are making excuses and trying to avoid the truth of the images playing before them. Also, there is a difference between “finding bread” and “finding a television”. That said, looting is looting and those engaging in it should be punished, regardless of color. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/173 "2005-09-01T01:08:01Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Can you imagine the hell you’d unleashed firing on desperate homeless people, some of whom are recent armed? Can you imagine what a stray bullet hitting some six year old kid would do? > > You’re talking about killing over SALVAGED STUFF in a drowned city. > > Yeesh. Looters breaking into electronics stores are not “deperate and homeless”. They are people that are choosing to engage in illegal activity at a time when society has broken down in the face of natural disaster. Are they seeking shelter and remaining orderly and cooperative? No. They are showing contempt for the society that most likely has supported them for their entire lives while they prey on it. And if they bring their six year old kid along, they are putting them in more danger than just a stray bullet. How about the diseases in the water? Or drowning? Or teaching them that stealing is fun and setting the stage for the next generation of inmates? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/174 "2005-09-01T01:09:18Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I can only dream. Can you imagine the money that society would save with a few well-placed bullets? The savings in the judicial and social services sector alone would be mind-boggling. Next logical step: Genocide! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/175 "2005-09-01T01:11:53Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > If a massive hurricane flooded Boston, I’m sure there’d be Irish from Charlestown and Southie looting the local shops. It’d still be way fucked up. And do the most damage to the people who actually lived in those communities. Absolutely. And I would be calling for the same treatment for them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/176 "2005-09-01T01:17:09Z")
Civilized countries do not murder people without trial for stealing electronics. Get some fucking perspective, man. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/177 "2005-09-01T01:20:27Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Actually, if you want the truth, _I’ve_ heard that Fox has rented out the water tank used to film _Titanic_ , constructed a big set of New Orleans in it and _hired_ black actors to pretend to be looters. This way the evil right-wing Fox execs can _ensure_ that no white looters accidentally appear in any of their shots. :rolleyes: Dammit! That was supposed to be a secret! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/178 "2005-09-01T01:26:32Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes, the majority population is black. The racism isn’t in the pictures alone but the commentary which not only dehumanizes the people doing it and carictures all of them as subhuman scum, but in the fact that they never TELL you News Orleans is majority black. They leave an _impression_ that only black people are doing it because they don’t tell you that only black people live in those neighborhoods. Or to put it another way, they’re leaving an impression that white people are choosing _not_ to do it simply by refraining to tell you that there _aren’t_ white people. Dio, if you go back to just about any riot or lootfest you can name, the majority of the participants have been minorities. That’s just how it is. We can talk all day about why that is, but to try and deny the fact is wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/179 "2005-09-01T01:32:55Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Dio, if you go back to just about any riot or lootfest you can name, the majority of the participants have been minorities. That’s just how it is. We can talk all day about why that is, but to try and deny the fact is wishful thinking. First of all, cite? Secondly, if the majority of looters rioters “have always been minorities” what do you think that proves? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379/180 "2005-09-01T01:38:26Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Looters breaking into electronics stores are not “deperate and homeless”. They are people that are choosing to engage in illegal activity at a time when society has broken down in the face of natural disaster. Are they seeking shelter and remaining orderly and cooperative? No. They are showing contempt for the society that most likely has supported them for their entire lives while they prey on it. > > And if they bring their six year old kid along, they are putting them in more danger than just a stray bullet. How about the diseases in the water? Or drowning? Or teaching them that stealing is fun and setting the stage for the next generation of inmates? There’s more than a few coded messages in this stereotypical sermon of yours, and even more lies. I don’t see how you can acknowledge living conditions like diseases in the water, the threat of drowning, society breaking down (not to mention looting being _de facto_ encouraged by lack of law enforcement) and then type that looters are not “desperate and homeless.” It’s attitude like youre that set the stage for the next generation of generalizing bigots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/worthless-shithead-new-orleans-looters/319379.md?page=10)