# Would a black rapist have received such a lenient sentence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 6, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668 "2016-06-06T19:33:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/181 "2016-06-08T19:25:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But it’s sad that it always takes a white middle-class poster child to humanize criminals. If folks want to make the criminal justice system less “life ruining”, that’s fine. But you can do that without giving Brock special treatment. Shove his ass in prison just like we do all the other thugs and THEN change the sentencing laws. Not all people convicted of rape are sentenced to prison: > [@](#): > > About 84 percent of convicted rapists in 2009 were sentenced to prison, according to the most recent BJS analysis of America’s 75 largest counties. Five percent went to jail, which often serves as a more temporary holding space. Eleven percent received probation or “other.” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/06/what-makes-the-stanford-sex-offenders-six-month-jail-sentence-so-unusual/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/06/what-makes-the-stanford-sex-offenders-six-month-jail-sentence-so-unusual/) As I said before, a lot of outrage rests on the assumption that he received an unusually lenient sentence for his crime. I don’t think that’s an accurate assumption. His sentence seems to be within the range of normal for his crime, lack of priors, and youth. And I don’t see him being used as a poster child to humanize criminals. He’s being used as the poster child for rich white male privileged. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/182 "2016-06-08T19:42:06Z")
> [@Mickle](#): > > I agree, it does not matter whether you are Black/ White/ Hispanic, if you are a Stanford student or any other university you deserve leniency, why should you have your future ruined for a simple rash decision. White Stanford student in California: 6 months Black Vanderbilt student in Tennessee: 25 years The charges have different names, because they are in different jurisdictions, but the crimes were substantially the same. Both were convicted of multiple felonies. The fact that CA doesn’t call it “rape” and TN does doesn’t come close to justifying the 50x harsher (or lighter, depending how you look at it) sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/183 "2016-06-08T21:16:38Z")
…Ken White (of Popehat fame),a criminal defense attorney, said this today: > [@](#): > > So you won’t find defense lawyers like me cheering Brock Turner’s escape from appropriate consequences. We see it as a grim reminder of the brokenness of the system. We recognize it as what makes the system impossible for many of our clients to trust or respect. And we know that when there’s a backlash against mercy and lenient sentences – when cases like this or the “affluenza” kid inspire public appetite for longer sentences – it’s not the rich who pay the price. It’s the ones who never saw much mercy to begin with. > **[mimesislaw.com](http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/brock-turner-the-sort-of-defendant-who-is-spared-severe-impact/10288)** > > Protect My ID,Transfer Files for Free,TransUnion Well worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/184 "2016-06-09T02:04:57Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Here is the complaint against Brock Turner: > > [https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1532973/complaint-brock-turner.pdf](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/1532973/complaint-brock-turner.pdf) For the sake of completeness, [here](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2854904/Defendantstatement.pdf) is the statement submitted by the convicted rapist to the judge. Also, the booking photo (i.e. mugshot) from his arrest accompanies [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/09/us/brock-turner-blamed-drinking-and-promiscuity-in-sexual-assault-at-stanford.html). Earlier articles had criticized the sheriff’s department for not releasing the mugshot. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/185 "2016-06-09T02:29:12Z")
> [@](#): > > that a first-time rapist shouldn’t rot in prison for longer than six months. I honestly don’t. Really? Rape is such a horrific crime that I think rapists should be castrated. Prison isn’t good enough, or if you’re opposed to castration, 10 years minimum seems ok to me. Rape is not something that you do by accident, such as accidentally killing someone by bad driving or dropping a loaded gun. It’s not something you do out of necessity, such as rob a store to get some money while starving to death. It’s not something you do on the spur of the moment in a fit an anger, like punch someone in a bar. It’s a horrific, deliberate choice to severely violate and hurt someone else. Most victims are traumatized for life. The only reason the current punishments are so light is due to sexism. Most reported rapes are never even investigated. Often the victims are punished more severely than the perverts who committed the crimes. The state I live in, if you report a rape, they will perform a traumatizing rape kit exam, and then park the rape kit in a warehouse and not bother to do anything with it. One of the local universities has been expelling women who report being raped by their fellow students and doing nothing to the rapists. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/186 "2016-06-09T11:33:11Z")
If research shows that a six-month prison sentence is enough to deter most re-offenders and that anything longer than that is associated with societal harm, then yeah, I’d be fine with a six-month sentence. Not enough to march in the streets in favor of it, but it wouldn’t bother me if the laws were modified. But since I don’t know what the research shows, I’m also fine with longer sentences. I’m not fine with steep sentences for some and slaps on the wrist for others unless there are mitigating circumstances for the latter. There are none in the case. Furthermore, it looks like [Brock Turner lied to the judge about his inexperience with drugs and alcohol](http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29988209/excerpts-from-stanford-sex-offender-brock-turners-court). I wonder how His Honor feels about this dude now? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/187 "2016-06-09T11:52:24Z")
The research does indeed show that the deterrence effect of sentences falls off very sharply after a few months. I wouldn’t call the evidence robust. But what evidence there is mostly points to the same conclusion. Importantly, certainty of punishment is a much bigger factor than severity. So we would be better off spending the thousands it takes to incarcerate people for each marginal additional year and put it toward testing all rape kits, funding detective overtime, etc. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/188 "2016-06-09T12:42:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I’m not fine with steep sentences for some and slaps on the wrist for others unless there are mitigating circumstances for the latter. There are none in the case. Furthermore, it looks like [Brock Turner lied to the judge about his inexperience with drugs and alcohol](http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29988209/excerpts-from-stanford-sex-offender-brock-turners-court). I wonder how His Honor feels about this dude now? According to the article the prosecutor pointed out the lies in Turner’s letter during the sentencing hearing, backed up with texts & photos from Turner’s phone, and the judge didn’t particularly care then. Which makes him sink even lower, if that’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/189 "2016-06-09T21:48:29Z")
Turner is scum, and he got too light a sentence. No argument there. But no one knows what kind of sentence any random black rapist would have gotten. Every day, plea bargains are made and vile criminals get less time in jail than they deserve. MOST of the time, we don’t hear about those cases. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/190 "2016-06-09T22:17:50Z")
Plea bargains typically don’t happen after a trial, now do they, **astorian**. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/191 "2016-06-10T13:28:19Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > But no one knows what kind of sentence any random black rapist would have gotten. Yes, we do. Or at least we know what one random black rapist got in remarkably similar circumstances: [25 years.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-brock-turner-cory-batey-show-race-affects-sentencing-article-1.2664945) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/192 "2016-06-10T14:09:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > For the sake of completeness, [here](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2854904/Defendantstatement.pdf) is the statement submitted by the convicted rapist to the judge. Yeesh. He deserves six months in jail for atrocious writing. How did he ever get into college? Or finish high school, for that matter. I’ve seen papers by students at community colleges that were better written. Just the “should of,” and the dangling participle had my head spinning. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/193 "2016-06-10T14:43:58Z")
Can the rapist be prosecuted for perjury for claiming in that statement that he was innocent of alcohol before he arrived at Stanford and was corrupted by the big-city slickers? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/194 "2016-06-10T14:48:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Can the rapist be prosecuted for perjury for claiming in that statement that he was innocent of alcohol before he arrived at Stanford and was corrupted by the big-city slickers? It doesn’t appear to be sworn testimony, so no, I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/195 "2016-06-10T17:42:41Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > …Why does it matter whether or not he was drunk? It doesn’t make a damn lick of different in DUIs or vehicular homicide during a DUI. Drunk or not, if he was every bit a stand up citizen as his family is making him out to be, he wouldn’t have raped her. The reason it matters is because his version of the story (and since she blacked out as far as I know it is the only version of the story) is that they both went to a party got drunk and decided to have sex. At some point she passed out while they were making out and he did not realize this and kept going. If he was impaired by being drunk it makes it more likely that he did not realize that she was passed out. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/196 "2016-06-10T17:49:32Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The reason it matters is because his version of the story (and since she blacked out as far as I know it is the only version of the story) is that they both went to a party got drunk and decided to have sex. At some point she passed out while they were making out and he did not realize this and kept going. If he was impaired by being drunk it makes it more likely that he did not realize that she was passed out. I saw a documentary on Cane Toads, where this one Cane Toad is trying to mount another Cane Toad. He’s got a problem, though, because she is a road pizza. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/197 "2016-06-10T17:53:22Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Yes, we do. Or at least we know what one random black rapist got in remarkably similar circumstances: [25 years.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-brock-turner-cory-batey-show-race-affects-sentencing-article-1.2664945) The circumstances are not similar at all. The woman in the Vanderbilt case was apparently drugged. After she was passed out someone called a couple of friends over and the carried her limp body into a bedroom there they gang raped her for hours and took pictures of it. There was not question they knew she was passed out and that it was non consensual. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/198 "2016-06-11T14:52:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Can the rapist be prosecuted for perjury for claiming in that statement that he was innocent of alcohol before he arrived at Stanford and was corrupted by the big-city slickers? > [@Asimovian](#): > > It doesn’t appear to be sworn testimony, so no, I don’t think so. The judge was made aware of Turner’s dishonesty about his history of drugs & alcohol by the Prosecutor before sentencing, but it apparently did not impact the judge. It was also brought to light that Turner [took pictures of his victim’s breasts & shared them in a group text.](http://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/news/a59745/brock-turner-stanford-rape-texts-photos-breasts-assault/) ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/199 "2016-06-11T15:00:43Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > The judge was made aware of Turner’s dishonesty about his history of drugs & alcohol by the Prosecutor before sentencing, but it apparently did not impact the judge. > > It was also brought to light that Turner [took pictures of his victim’s breasts & shared them in a group text.](http://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/news/a59745/brock-turner-stanford-rape-texts-photos-breasts-assault/) Anyone else think those pictures of him look really creepy? If I met him on the street, I’d run screaming. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668/200 "2016-06-13T14:07:28Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wonder how His Honor feels about this dude now? Another question about “how his Honor feels about this dude now”: If the judge weighed the rapist’s pledge to go around universities talking about drinking and promiscuity and considered it a good reason to give a light sentence, and then Turner doesn’t end up doing that\* - is there any way of revisiting his sentence because he isn’t living up to his promises? I guess probably not, it would have to be some sort of specific deal, wouldn’t it? Still, it would make sense that if that was part of the reason the judge handed down a light sentence, and Turner can’t make good on it, then he shouldn’t have that light sentence. (Which, obviously, he shouldn’t have in the first place…)\*\* \*Because nobody in their right mind would want to listen to that slime speak. Because having him lecture other young people about the dangers of promiscuity is beyond ridiculous. Because the mere hint of booking him for a talk should result in riots. (Also, if the judge thought that was a good idea a mental health professional should give his head a good hard shrinking. Shrink it so small it goes under the head size limit for judges’ wigs.) \*\* I think sentences in the US are very harsh and not at all productive, but they should be consistent and fair. Special-snowflake white boys getting light sentences only makes the whole problem worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-black-rapist-have-received-such-a-lenient-sentence/756668.md?page=11)